Official SA8000HD Thread (SARA Units)

[57U]

We currently have a number of threads on the SA8000HD. I thought it was time to start an "official" thread on this unit, since many of us now use it. Please post below with any issues, etc.

This first post has also attempted to summarize "issues" with the STB, although with different firmware and different service providers, the issues do tend to vary.

Some of the issues may be specific to TW, Rogers, Videotron, etc, but we'll try to sort those out as they come up.


The following items are specific to Rogers Toronto, therefore, may or may not apply to your STB.

Some people have Passport firmware and some have SARA. The "issues" mentioned later in this post apply to SARA, as Passport is slightly "ahead" on some of these "issues"


The SA8000HD is available from Rogers as of June 1.

A summary so far:

Cost - $799, with perhaps programming credits ($100), depending if they're useful in your particular situation. (FS may have it for $699?)

Rental Cost - $25/mo. plus $1.99 PVR fee.

"HD Upgrade Cost" - $10/mo more than the SA3100HD or SA3250HD, plus the $1.99.

"SD Upgrade Cost" - $15/mo more than SD STB/Bundle, plus the $1.99.

If you have a grandfathered bundle (for example 10 digital stations instead of 5), you may have to give it up and subscribe to a new bundle. It may be appropriate to simply keep the old box and use it on another TV because the increased cost of getting your "grandfathered" stations is just a bit less than the STB rental fee. Some people have managed to keep their bundles by contacting the "right" CSR

I would suggest that anyone rent, rather than purchase the SA8000HD. The technologies are still changing very rapidly.

They are available at most Rogers stores.

Ports:

- two firewire ports. Still need to confirm if they're active.
- Both Optical and coaxial digital audio ports available and "working".
- Documentation says to only use one or the other digital audio out.

Other information:

FF speeds are 4X, 10X, 30X, not 2, 4, 8 as indicated in the documentation.

My current SARA is 1.82.12.1

Connecting a VCR - The operating manual states that this is a future service, however, there is a "workaround". The workaround to record from the HDD is to run the setup wizard and enable only 480i. You can then do your recording. You then need to re-run the wizard to watch HD again.

Some STBs with later firmware, or Passport firmware, may not have these issues.

HDD Space Available Page 18 of the diagnostics shows some information on the HDD - There is a listing near the bottom that looks like this:

AVFS
315976300
67229
4700
XXXXX

XXXX divided by 67229 times 100 appears to be the percentage of the HDD remaining. One hour of HD recording utilizes about 3500 "units" (about 7-9 GB), SD analogue uses about 1000 "units" of the 67,000 "units" available. (Therefore we should get ~20 hours of HD, or ~80 hours of SD depending on the amount of analogue, or some combination...) (SD digital requires roughly 1/2 the HDD space as SD analogue).

Passthrough is not yet operational - need to use "Settings (one press of the button) - scroll to "picture format" and select output mode (480i/p, 1080i, etc)


Other issues that may be addressed in future firmware:

- A "HDD Fuel Guage" (Time used/available)
- Passthrough, Upconvert1/2
- Record to VCR functionality.
- DVI & Firewire functionality
- Option to add "a minute or two" to the start/end of programmes, without needing to edit the programme.

Minor Gripes:

- If you edit an "all recording" the edit usually only "takes" for the first recording, subsequent recordings get their info from the IPG...

- "Live" button too close to FF button. I hit it by mistake several times while "watching live/paused TV". Had to rewind to where I was.

- Occasional issues with setting up manual recordings - do not always "take" properly - sometimes you get two recordings or even "weird" additional recordings, but it usually corrects itself after it does the first recording twice.

- If you use the "all episodes" recording option, it'll record every episode of that programme, even if it's a repeat. They should have an option for "every new episode", comparing existing recordings to "new" IPG information (may come with new firmware).

- Although you can stop watching a recording and go back to the same position later to "resume from current location". You cannot do this if you go to a "different" recording in the meantime. You can only "resume" the last programme. Now that I know this, I'll try to remember to go back to the same recording so I don't need to use the FF or REW to get to where I was. (On a VCR, I would have simply reinserted the tape and it would resume where I left off - I can't see why it can't include a "tag" on each recording?)

A show that is currently being recorded can not (easily) be viewed from the beginning. You need to rewind, but that shouldn't take long at 30X speed.

A "stuttering" or "jittering" when watching programmes with panning from side to side or up/down - sports like basketball, hockey, auto racing.

Some people mentioned audio dropouts and no reacquisition of audio. I have not encountered this issue myself. The people who reported the problem rebooted their STB and the problem went away.

Sometimes the unit doesn't respond to the remote. A simple reboot usually resolves the issue - no need to unplug the unit - reboot instructions in the FAQ on SA STBs. There are other helpful hints in that FAQ.

People have noted that you get "kicked out" of a "live" recording when the live recording ends. Simple workaround - when you press the "record" button, you'll be taken to a "confirmation" screen. Edit the programme so that it will end several hours later, then you won't get "kicked out" because you'll be finished by the time it ends...

[mfabien]

Have one since over a month. Will be happy to assist when I can.

57U, can you explain what the "Passthrough" is and if your unit has it? If so, do you find it in General Settings? Also, there was talk of a "Yellow Box" to determine the resolution transmitted to the TV (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). I don't believe I have that...do you have it on your new SA8000HD? And let us know if your DVI / HDCP is activated.

[57U]

Getting my STB tomorrow. Will supply feedback as it becomes available. "passthrough" means that the STB will pass through all formats (480P, 720P, 1080i) I understand the the Videotron STB only has "fixed" as a picture format, sending only 1080i for example. (press settings twice - go to picture formats?)

It would be interesting to hear from others, outside Canada with this STB if "passthrough" and "upconvert1" are available...

[mfabien]

No not in General settings in my machine.

But you may configure the settings you want via the advance the "Advanced setup instructions" using the STB's buttons and not the remote. So you can setup 720p and 1080i. The thing is that the last one programmed, for instance 1080i, will be the one by default for HD. You can toggle between HD and SD (480i or 480p) but you can't toggle between 720p and 1080i. If you enter 1080i before 720p, it would then convert 1080i to 720p and transmit that signal to your TV for HD.

[mfabien]

57U,

Clicking "Quick Settings" (pressing the Settings button once) you will scroll down to Picture Format. My setting was 1080i and I changed it to 720p. No change in PQ. I then went back to Picture Format and saw that the setting was back to 1080i because 720p is not supported by my TV.

I also found in the User Guide that you can make the Advanced Setup Instructions with the remote using the A and B buttons.

[mfabien]

Do you like the HD resordings on your SA8000HD?

[57U]

I watched one from PBS-HD last night - it was indistinguishable from the "original".

I watched a bit of the HD basketball (using "pause live TV", while also recording another SD programme at the same time) and I thought I saw occasional "stuttering" of the image. I'll have to watch for that in the future.

I'm very pleased with the unit so far.

Only issue I've encountered is that when trying to set one manual recording, two recordings show up. Tried several times, deleting one (which deleted both) and then retrying only to have the same problem. Oh well...

[mfabien]

Only issue I've encountered is that when trying to set one manual recording, two recordings show up. Tried several times, deleting one (which deleted both) and then retrying only to have the same problem. Oh well...

Did not encounter that on the rare occasions I programmed manual recording. I much prefer recording from the programming menu (and you have a choice of today and selections for 2 days forward). You then select recording "Once only" or "All Episodes"

[mfabien]

Is your DVI output active on your new SA8000HD?

[57U]

I was trying to record Jay Leno, every Monday (and only on Monday - I like the "headlines" segment). The programming menu only allows "record once" or "record every episode", it doesn't allow "record this day every week". It does allow this with the "manual recording"...

Rogers IPG goes 7 days forward, very convenient.

I don't have DVI on my 3 year old TV, but many other people have indicated it is not yet active from Rogers.

[Coasterdon]

I picked up an SA8000HD from Rogers yesterday. I had lot's of trouble with the picture going black but I think it's my cable wire. I switched to a different one and it works except I get no sound on all the digital channels. I did have sound with the other cable so I'm sure it's my cables. I'm going to pick up a new cable today. I haven't bought new cable in a while. Other than that it's fine. I was a little confused about the screen size to use. My TV control will not stretch the SD image to fit the screen but the box control will. It get's a little confusing as to which settings to use, TV wide and Box Stretch seems to be the one for stretching SD properly (I know some people don't like stretching SD but some people in my house do). I'm sure it will be fun to play with for a while.

[max]

I also received my 8000HD from Rogers yesterday, works like a charm so far....

MAX,

[mfabien]

Possibilities:

1. While in Component you get 1080i (if your TV set defaults to 1080i for the HD component TV Input). You can then click "Settings" button once and scroll down to get Picture Format and select 480p, click the "Select" button and after a black screen you get the Video. The PQ is improved over 1080i and picture size is different.

2. You can connect a S-Video cable from the SA8000HD to Video1 TV Input. To view SD channels, select such a channel, then click the "On" button on the PIP line then the SWAP button to put the SD channel in the smaller picture in picture then with the TV remote, select Video1.

In my case, solution 2 is best quality, at least to my taste, because S-Video appears to be better for SD. The resolution remains 480p at all times for Video1 because under Advanced setup instructions, I had selected 480p after 480i.

Once my STB gets updated for DVI output, later this month, I will pay attention to what happens also with SD. It is said that DVI handles both 480 and 1080 resolutions (wonder if that requires a settings change as is the case with component).

[kelo]

I got the sa 8000hd from charter cable on 6/1 and have had no problems with the unit. I did notice the PQ was better than the sa 3100 both HD & SD channels, but my s vhs cable would not show a picture. Read the set up and if component cables are hooked up when the box is 1st turned on your set up stays component. So I will try mfabien's #2 method for SD. I was glad to see the PQ in recorded HD was excellent, I read in earlier posts the PQ was bad. I guess the newer updates took care of that. I do wish there was more control over the rec/pause/STOP features like a VCR has, trying to rec music videos is a lil tricky. Can't have everything.

Sony kp51ws510/ Sherwood 5.1 dts/PS2/Sony Pro Scan DVD :afro:

[TheDreamer]

I was trying to record Jay Leno, every Monday (and only on Monday - I like the "headlines" segment). The programming menu only allows "record once" or "record every episode", it doesn't allow "record this day every week". It does allow this with the "manual recording"...


Isn't there in the options after you set it to record every episode to restrict it to only record every episode on certain days, on certain channels, and/or at certain times.

Or is that the other software.....Passport versus Sara?

I wonder if they fixed the bug where it won't let you select "record every epsiode" if the show type isn't a 'series'. Or the DST bug.

I'm waiting to find out if I really can get it or not. I got an Email last night say that it is available...but when I called to order, they said it wasn't available yet. And, when I mentioned the email...they said they would check with a supervisor...except there wasn't one available...so now I'm waiting for them to send me another message saying that it is available (again)....

The Dreamer

[mfabien]

Isn't there in the options after you set it to record every episode to restrict it to only record every episode on certain days, on certain channels, and/or at certain times.The Dreamer

Yes, for every episode you can select at the same hour.

[Blizaine]

Does the SA8000HD have a firewire port? I thought I saw in the manual (on the SA website) that it was an "option". Does anyone's 8000HD have it?

If so, can it be used to hook up an external drive?

[mfabien]

It has 2 Firewire outputs. And yes you can connect a D-VHS deck and archive HD movies or programs as allowed by the DTCP protocol associated with IEEE 1394 Firewire.

[goodduffer]

Good morning - new to the forum, but have been an audio/video phile longer than I care tot remember. I was successful in picking up an Explorer 8000HD on June 2/04, during the rush to Rogers stores after the release announcement.

So far the unit is performing pretty well, good quality HD recording and navigation around the menus not too bad.

However, the supplied manual is rather limited. For instance no info on recording on two different channels - that I could find. Also, my attemps to use a VCR for "archiving" as it is referred to in the setup instructions so have been unsuccessful. Not only can I not record on tape, but can't even get the cable signal from the 8000HD to the VCR.

Any comments/ suggestions welcomed.

[57U]

1. For instance no info on recording on two different channels - that I could find.

2. Also, my attemps to use a VCR for "archiving" as it is referred to in the setup instructions so have been unsuccessful. 1. Simply add another recording whenever you want. It'll tell you if you have a conflict that requires 3 tuners.... Also, if it's recording "now" you can still "pause live TV", thereby using the second tuner.

2. See the first post in this thread. I've added lots of information there.

[Rocko]

Is the SA8000HD noisy? Like having a computer on in the room? I can hear the whirring noise from 25 feet away on the Motorola 6208.

[mfabien]

Is the SA8000HD noisy? Like having a computer on in the room? I can hear the whirring noise from 25 feet away on the Motorola 6208.

You must be a foot away from the unit to hear it.

[57U]

Yes, I was surprised at how quiet it is. If you have no other sound in the room, you can hear it access the hard drive, but as soon as you turn on anything else, the sound is inaudible. I have the unit sitting beside me, only a few feet away and this was a concern, but is no longer. (See my setup in the signature)

If I have the audio off, and I programme a "record programme", I can hear the HDD doing the write at each confirmation, but it is very very quiet.

[max]

i was amazed at how cool it runs, my old 3250 use to get hot enough to cook an egg on.

MAX,

[57U]

I have not seen this issue raised yet on this forum (as far as I know). Whenever I'm watching a recorded HD programme, there is a "stuttering or jittering" effect whenever the camera pans left to right or up and down quickly. This was first noticed when I was watching a basketball game, but I've since seen it in hockey, auto racing and even in a nature programme whenever the camera pans.

I have not seen any pixellation. It's almost as though the STB doesn't have the capacity to write all the frames and therefore skips the odd frame. Comments?

I originally thought it might have been when I was "taxing" the unit by recording two programmes, or watching and recording, but that's not the case. Several of the instances were on simple recording when the STB was off.

I have not encountered the phenomenon on SD recordings.

[mfabien]

Have not experienced that effect with mine.

[mfabien]

Responded to the Scientific Atlanta survey yesterday. At the end SA wanted to know if for the future I would prefer either the DVR to be able to:

1. Communicate with other TV's in the house, or

2. Save programming to a recordable DVD so I could take my favorite shows anywhere.

I selected no 2 with the assumption that the recordable DVD would record HD. But the question remains whether HD DVD will equal D-VHS and current HDDVD and Sony's Blu-Ray DVD demonstrations have not shown that to be the case (according to experts)

[killedkenny]

Other issues that may be addressed in future firmware:

- A "HDD Fuel Guage" (Time used/available)


When you go into the "Recorded List" and then into "Options" (I think you press "B"), it does tell you what percentage of the HDD has been used.
Am I the only one who saw this? Nobody else seems to have mentioned it.

[57U]

You have this option with Videotron. Rogers Firmware doesn't have it yet.

[mfabien]

You have this option with Videotron.

True ! Wonder why Rogers would not? No logic that I can see !

[Coasterdon]

Last night I switched to TMN HD to watch Six Feet Under and I started getting crackling noises coming out of the tv. Very annoying. I had been watching analogue channels all night with no problem and DVD's so it's not the tv. I switched to regular TMN and it was there too but less noticeable. Anyway it was starting so I watched it on another tv. I will have to check tonight to see if its still happening, Anyone else have this with the 8000HD?

[DoubleDAZ]

True ! Wonder why Rogers would not? No logic that I can see !
It's just a matter of who has which firmware version loaded, they all catch up eventually. :)

[killedkenny]

I seem to have sound and reception problems similar to what you are talking about quite often. I've heard some people talk about "drop-outs" on the HD channels before. I'm not sure if this is the same thing or not. I have a bit of a mess with my cabling and splitters though, so I was going to try to work that out before I said anything. Maybe my signal is weak.

Actually, now that I think of it, I did check my signal strength in the menus (QAM and what not... don't remeber exactly) and they seemed in line with what 57u and others told me it should be at. I guess I'll keep my out here for any more feedback.

[mfabien]

Just checked with Videotron for the activation of the DVI / HDCP activation for the SA8000HD. Not yet, they say, but should'nt be long because they just activated the SA3250HD's DVI.

So, hours, days, weeks? Who knows!

[57U]

Just as an FYI, Rogers had the DVI on the SA3250HD "connected" right from the start. I guess that was a few months ago.

There are still some "issues" with the DVI connection on cable boxes on some TVs as discussed in this forum.

[mfabien]

There are still some "issues" with the DVI connection on cable boxes on some TVs as discussed in this forum.

Will advise when I get the DVI activated and comment on results.

[Post78]

Hey folks. I am new to the forum but all the information is great. I was hoping I could get some suggestions from everyone.

I have a PT-53WX54 Panny and will be picking up my SA8000HD today from Rogers. This is my first HDTV and I have never had or played with HD STB's before. I read the tips in the SA STB's FAQ and was wondering if the settings listed there were the ones everyone would recomend?

I think I have understood everything I have read, but would like some nods of encouragement to if I am correct. Such as, if I set the STB to use Pass-through then I will be able to use my TV to change the Aspect for SD broadcasts, right? Also by following the tips in the above mentioned FAQ, I assume that by enabling only 480i and 1080i then everything above 480i will be upconverted? (but by the TV or the STB?). If I have this setup than anything transmitted in 480i will come through as 480i? If I use the upconvert1 setting then I assume that anything that comes through as 480i is upconverted to 480p (by the STB) and any other signal that comes through is upconverted to 1080i? If I do not use the upconvert1 setting, will my TV than do the upconversion to 480p? One last thing, if signals are upconverted to 1080i, will the aspect be converted as well to fit my widescreen, or will I still have to use the STB's stretch modes (and only the STB modes or can I use the TV as well)? I am very paranoid about burn-in. Ok, one more last thing, If I am watching a 480p signal, I can still use my tv to change the aspect?

Sorry for the long and redundant questions.

Thanks,

Post

[57U]

Most of what you said is correct. Only thing is, the Rogers SA8000HD doesn't yet have passthrough. See the first post in this thread. You can still send "SD" signals via the component video connection, but you have to "manually" switch output formats between say 480i standard and 1080i.

I will post a copy of a letter I'm planning to send to Rogers regarding the SA8000HD "issues" on the official thread shortly.

[57U]

OK, here's a copy of the intended letter. A couple more issues may still be added...

The following comments relate to the SA8000HD recently released by Rogers. I belong to a High Definition forum and we have assembled these comments, hoping they would be useful for you. The comments fall into two groupings:

1. "Bugs" - things that don't work right.

2. "Suggestions" - things that would make the unit better.

We hope that these comments will allow you to improve this product. It's safe to say that everyone who has one of these SA8000HDs is happy with this product and we are pleased that you have provided a rental option for it, in addition to the purchase option. But as you well know, it's very easy to improve upon the product, via firmware updates and we look forward to firmware updates that address our "Bugs & Suggestions".

If you have any timing or comments regarding when the firmware will be released that will address some of the major issues, that would be appreciated - especially DVI and firewire.

Here is our list:

Bugs:
-----

1. A "stuttering" or "jittering" when watching programmes with panning from side to side, or up/down - sports like basketball, hockey, auto racing, even nature programmes with fast panning have this problem. Looks like the "frame rate" is only a few frames per second, instead of 30.

2. Issues with setting up manual recordings . The recordings do not always "take" properly - sometimes you get two recordings or even "weird" additional recording times. Sometimes, the recordings are phantomly deleted, after only one recording even if it's supposed to be a "weekly" recording, etc.

3. When a recorded HD programme comes to a fully "black" or fully "white" scene, or credits at the end of a movie, there are audio/video breakups/stuttering. This happens on almost all recorded programmes with "black" or "white" screens. Examples include "Six Feet Under" which has a number of "fade to white" scenes in each episode and has credits at the end that cause these "breakups".

4. If you set a recording from the IPG, edit it to add a few minutes, it'll record this way, properly, the first time - for example set Jay Leno to record from 11:33-12:38PM instead of 11:35-12:35, however, once it's recorded this way once, all subsequent recordings go back to the "unedited" 11:35-12:35.

5. Despite the fact that I've stated my default as "save until erased", some recordings were erased after 14 days. Others have mentioned that some of their recordings were also erased when they shouldn't have been.

Suggestions:
--------------

1. We look forward to a time when the "VCR archiving" function works.

2. We look forward to a "fuel gauge" that tell us how much space is left on the hard drive for recording.

3. We look forward to having "passthrough" or "upconvert1/2" available on this STB as it is on the SA3250HD. It's a bit of a pain having to manually change between formats.

4. We look forward to a time when the firewire ports are activated.

5. We look forward to a time when the DVI port is activated.

6. We look forward to "easily" being able to add a few minutes to regular recordings, at the front and at the back, for minor programme overruns. It is currently possible to edit recordings to do this, but that's cumbersome and also doesn't "hold" as mentioned in the "bugs", above.

7. On the remote control the "live" button is right above to the FF button. This makes it far too easy to hit the "live" button instead of FF, which means you have to rewind to get back to where you were - very annoying when "pausing live TV". You should mention this to SA.

8. If you use the "all episodes" recording option, it'll record every episode of that programme, even if it's a repeat. This means that some shows, which are repeated often each week, get recorded several times a week, instead of once. There should be an option for "every NEW episode", comparing existing recordings to "new" IPG information.

9. Although you can stop watching a recording and go back to the same position later to "resume from current location". You cannot do this if you go to a "different" recording in the meantime. You can only "resume" the last programme you watched. (On a VCR, I would have simply reinserted the tape and it would resume where I left off - I can't see why the firmware can't include a "tag" on each recording?)

10. Other nice features would be things like "seasons pass", searching for actors or themes, etc.

Thank you very much for listening. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[mfabien]

Interesting to see to what degree a DVR, such as this one, can operate differently under two different cable companies !

[DoubleDAZ]

Michel, are they both using the same firmware?

[57U]

No, the firmware is different.

[DoubleDAZ]

Ididn't think so. Kind of explains why they act differently then, doesn't it? Or did I miss something here?

[57U]

My current SARA with Rogers is 1.82.12.1. Videotron's is slightly different. I understand that some people in the US are up to 1.83.x.x, with some of the issues already addressed.

When we got our SA3250HDs a few months back it didn't take that long for several firmware updates addressing all the major issues to come our way.

I sent the "issues e-mail", a few posts back, to Rogers this evening.

[mfabien]

My current SARA with Rogers is 1.82.12.1. Videotron's is slightly different. I understand that some people in the US are up to 1.83.x.x, with some of the issues already addressed.

How can you tell? By asking Rogers the software version number?

[57U]

Look at the FAQ on "Tips for SA STBs". Once in the diagnostics (that can be used to find the signal strength), you can go through the pages and find the SARA version near the top of one of the pages. I don't recall which page it's on, but should be pretty simple to find.

[mfabien]

Ah !

My Sara version is 1.83.4.2

QAM noise level = -2db

S/N ration = 36db

Thanks

[killedkenny]

My Sara version is 1.83.4.2


I guess this explains why we have SOME of these issues fixed already (fuel guage). I have not checked my version, but I guess it's the same as mfabien.
Also, I have not personally experienced any problems with recordings not "taking" or being erased early. the rest of those problems I think are common to both Videotron and Rogers.

[dlevesque]

Hello Everybody,

I am planning to buy the SA 8000 HD DVR shortly and just found this board. I really like the various threads.

For your information, I just called Videotron to inquire about the availability of the DVI output on the 8000HD

They told me that they have issues with some Sony and Samsung sets and are working to solve the problem. Avalibility date is unknown.

I was waiting for this feature in order to save on expensive component cables. I have a newly acquired Toshiba 30HF83. Do you think that I should wait or will the difference in PQ will be minimal?

Thanks,

Denis

[dlevesque]

Hello again,

While I'm here, I might as well ask feedback from existing users of Videotron's SA 8000HD users.

I have the original (read pretty old) SA STB (I'm not sure which model), of course, non HD.

I find that the PQ of SD programs is sometimes terrible. I watched a few hockey games between the Flames and Tampa Bay and my 20 yr old set had a better image. I use s-video cable as component is not available.

Images from good quality DVDs on my Yamaha DVS 5660 DVD player is very good, so I know what my HDTV is capable of.

Can I expect better quality from the 8000 HD for SD than my existing STB?

Thanks

Denis

[mfabien]

Last Tuesday Videotron told me that the just activated DVI for SA3250HD. I still expect to see the DVI activated this month.

As for the SD picture quality, I'm most impressed with the one I get via S-Video using PIP, SWAP and selecting Video1 input. But then DVI could possibly give me something as good, and, under DVI, the format will be using "Auto-Fix" and give me 480p for a SD channel.

Perhaps you can use your DVD player component, until DVI takes over...just a thought...or are you using your DVD every day?

[57U]

Also SD quality can "suffer" on an HDTV that has not been properly set up. If you have too much sharpness, have SVM turned on, etc. See the FAQ "What you need to do to your new HDTV".

DVI is unlikely to provide you with a better picture quality than component video on your particular TV - see the FAQ on DVI connections. I have no difficulty with Rogers on the SD channels "through" component video (output at 480P standard)...

[dlevesque]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I have started fine tuning my HDTV using Digital Video essentials. Not finished though, my burn-in period is not complete !

Since summer is not my biggest TV period, I will probably get the SA 8000 HD in early august, just in time for the Olympics. Hopefully, the DVI will be activated at this time!

By the way, are you aware of any canadian HDTV broadcasters that will be carrying the olympics?

I also heard that videotron is not carrying TSN and Discovery HD as they are negotiating with whoever and are keeping this issue as bargaining power.

[mfabien]

Denis, I was talking to a tech guy at Videotron last Wednesday and told him TSNHD is carrying the Champ car series in HD. He's a race car buff and said he will personaly put the pressure on Videotron to get TSNHD ASAP.

As for Canadian coverage of the Olympics, my guess is that our only hope rests with CBC. They will carry the Olympics in Canada, they have a HD channel reserved for them, channel 606, and with the Prime Brodcaster being NBC, there would be little production cost involved for CBC. As you can see here, http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showthread.php?t=10489, provided by poster Hippie, there will be generous coverage by NBC. Perhaps there would be less commercials with CBC.

[wegel]

hi all
i have a sa 8000hdpvr and on hd chanels i have problems with reception. ie. sound cuts out , video has iteruptions with boxes , freezing ect... videotron has been trying to fix this without any satisfaction. all hd chanels have this problem TMN is the worst. & i am fed up.
i do not have dvd quality picture & dvi out still is not working i have been caught by false advertising.
how about you guys out there?
wegel

[mfabien]

My first try when the SA8000HD was installed was that the PQ on both HD and SD were inferior to ExpressVu satellite using receiver 8000HD (Dish).

I trust you are using component connection to your DTV input. If you are using the component cable supplied with the SA8000HD, suggest you get a better one. I replaced the component cables with the one I had with the satellite receiver and that resolved the HD video PQ.

Now I do know that in the past 2 weeks, calling the technical department and Videotron, a recording comes on saying that if a user gets a Black image on occasion (interruption of signal) to unplug the terminal and let it reboot. I guess they told you that. I know I recorded the movie "Patch Adams" Saturday night (ABCHD) and at the end of the movie I have some 2-3 minutes with Black screen but full audio (but that could very well be caused by the transmitting station). Otherwise, everything is normal.

As for DVI, we are waiting for its activation and expect that to be this month. Can't see this to be a false advertising issue...it clearly says "available soon" at the bottom of the specs...
http://www.videotron.com/services/Forward.do?to=/en/television/5_2_6_7.jsp&lang=ENGLISH

[wegel]

yes your corect now they changed the text on the web site but 60 days ago it did not read the way it does today. when i bought this hd pvr i was expecting the best video & audio available today. i realy hope videotron can
fix the problem. & fyi dvd quality picture is also advertised by videotron.
i don't know about you but my dvd player giving me a way better quality video than th sa8000 hd pvr.
maybe i expected too much from hdtv than i am getting.
wegel

[wegel]

just to let you know i have had videotron guys at my home at least 9 times in the last 7 weeks.
:boo2:
wegel

[57U]

The SA8000HD is a "bit bucket". That means that the quality of the signal recorded on the HDD and sent to your TV should be identical to what comes into the unit.

If you don't see "HD" on your TV, you must have STB or connection, or setup issues. Make sure that you have it properly set up, using the setup wizard and then properly "settings-picture formatted" to output 1080i, etc.

[wegel]

all the things you sugest have been done by myself & or by the tech's from videotron. my question is the problems with the hd singnal are seen by all vidotron customrs using sa 8000hd pvr having same grip as me? they did the following. new cable from pole to house, all cables in the house are new as well, the even changed the sa 8000hd pvr for a new one.
wegel

[dlevesque]

Wegel's posts raise a issue regarding a question that was not answered in my previous post. Since I am about to purchase SA 8000HD, it is a big concern for me:

What kind of picture quality can I expect from 720p/1080i content using the 8000 HD, compared to 480p content out of my entry level Yamaha DVD player, using identical set of cables (and using the signal from Videotron!)?

Please note that signal quality on my existing STB seems to be good as I have never seen any pixelization, except when changing channels.

I was quite impressed with the PQ when bought my Toshiba HDTV; can I assume it will be even better?

Thanks

Denis

[mfabien]

Denis, I have a very good quality HD video image and my Toshiba needs to have 1080i so that is what it gets from the SA8000HD. If you have a good quality component connection, you will get a very nice HD picture. One test for HD is to pick up a true HD program (not Widescreen High Resolution) from PBS HD, such as "Eye of the Beholder" or a sport event in HD. Movies in HD at CBS or ABC are very good as well.

For SD, I prefer using S-Video cable in video1 TV input and setting Theatre Wide 1 is kept in memory for that input. This I prefer to using the DTV input with component and viewing either under 1080i or 480p formats. Having digital cable, this S-Video setup gives me an unbelievable SD image quality.

I am getting results as good as I had with ExpressVU in both HD and SD and even better actually for SD.

If you and/or wegel are located in the West Island, and if you would like to see what it looks like, send me a private message and we will arrange that for daytime hours. I have recorded HD to look at and you can see what my SD looks like.

[dlevesque]

Thanks to Michel, I was able to see what the SA 8000 HD was capable of.

I was quite impressed with the image quality! Sitting in front of his 57 in Toshiba, I understood the true meaning of Home Cinema. The image quality of Space Cowboys was similar to a real movie screen! Regular HDTV programs like CSI are also quite amazing!

The only drawback to such PQ is that regular SD reveal its limitations. Since 1080i is soooo good, 480i almost looks like old 8mm films.... antiquated. But I think that the 8000 HD offers better SD PQ than my current STB.

Now that the decision is made, it's time to get the required funding!!!!

Thank you again Michel for taking the time to show me this amazing new technology.

Denis

[mfabien]

....The only drawback to such PQ is that regular SD reveal its limitations. Since 1080i is soooo good, 480i almost looks like old 8mm films.... antiquated. But I think that the 8000 HD offers better SD PQ than my current STB....
Denis

Of course I would have never purchased such a big widescreen TV to watch only SD programming. But, it is a fact that the PQ varies from one channel to the next.

Reading posts in this forum, it is interesting to see to what degree US posters are begging providers to put up more HD channels. We in Canada are basically limited to US channels for HD. I can tell you that I discovered US College Football because of HD coverage on Saturdays at CBS and found it most interesting to watch and enjoyed the quality HD video. And then NFL, great. Golf at CBS...they gave us HD coverage for all PGA tournaments after the Masters (can't understand NBC giving us, last weekend, SD coverage for the US Open! Have they sent all their HD equipment to Greece already?) So, I'm happy and satisfied with my HDTV investment in spite of the lack of Canadian HD content at this time.

[mfabien]

...Now that the decision is made, it's time to get the required funding!!!!

Denis

Just got a call from poster wegel who explained his Video problems. I made a suggestion and he will test this and report. But it reminds me that a few hours after delivery and installation of my SA8000HD, I called Videotron and ask them if I could return the unit I just purchased. I said I can't accept the HD Video quality I'm getting with this and prefer keeping ExpressVu satellite. The answer was that the sale was final. So, I was on my own to figure out what was happening.

I then removed the component cables that came with the PVR and used those of my 6000HD satellite receiver. And that made the difference. Conclusion for you Denis and others who will buy a SA8000HD from Videotron, if the component cables are colored beige, those are the ones like I was supplied and will spoil your picture. Don't know if those cables came from SA or Videotron but they are useless. Maybe others can report on their experience with component cables that came with the unit.

[wegel]

Hi Mf
I Made The Change Of Cable & Will Advise Results After Whatching
Some Hd Content.
Thanks For The Advise For Watching Sd Through S-video Way Cool.
Wegel

[wegel]

HI MF
MY NEWS IS NOT GOOD I AM WATCHING "STARSHIP ENTERPISE" ON CHANEL
678. I AM GETTING SAME TYPE OF PROBLEM AS I EXPLINED TO YOU.
:mecry:
WEGEL

[mfabien]

By process of illimination, the digital squares appearing on your screen have been verified by Videotron a number of times to see of the cable could be the cause, the component cable has been changed (as per your last post). I believe you said you did not have a HD receiver prior to the SA8000HD but you did say that the digital squares are not appearing when you use the DVD.

And your last post indicates you have no problem with the SD signal. We know that your DVD signal is not 1080i format. So in conclusion, the problem comes about with the 1080i signal. The question becomes is it the PVR or the TV.

I trust you have the 1080i format when you select your component input. Click Settings once and scroll down the menu to Format settings and make sure you have 1080i as a format. Suggest you review the advanced setup instructions at page 41 and repeat if necessary. The last format entered should be 1080i which then becomes the default format.

[wegel]

Hi Mf
Yes I Am Using 1080i On Both Tv & Stb Just To Let You Know When Videotron Was Here They Called Office And Someone There Said They Saw Same Problem As We Did On My Tv. This Is Strange THAT YOU DON'T SEE THIS.
Wegel

[mfabien]

Last night I was on CTVHD for "Law and Order" and did get what you are complaining about. I nearly never watch CTVHD because they copy NBC or others. This was a rerun and NBC had something else.

Early last night I recorded Great Performances on PBSHD. Viewed the performance this morning and it was perfect.

So, if it is the cable service the problem is either for certain channels or of a more general cable transmission problem but, if I consider my case, not all the time or not for all users...I can tell you that much.

The reason I was suggesting to do the advanced setup instructions is that some if not many channel transmissions are done in 720p format to reduce broadband. Your TV, if RPTV, should be like mine and converts 720p to 1080i. But I believe it is more effective if the PVR/terminal converts 720p into 1080i format while the signal is still digital. To do this you must configure 720p in the advanced setup followed by 1080i (as the last entry) in which case all incoming 720p content will be reconfigured in 1080i before transmitting to your TV.

[wegel]

Hi
On Pbs I Never See This. But Tmn Is The Worst Chanel For This Probelm Followed By Ctv, Cbs,abc,fox,. On Tmn I Can Not Watch 15 Min Of Tv Without Seeing Problem.
Maybe My Problem Is I Watch Tooooo Much T.v.
Wegel

[mfabien]

...or too much TMN and CTVHD !

The major networks know how to make arrangements with film studios so that proper film to digital data is done in order to get good HD as a finished product. Now that you have a PVR, record them. Then in a few weeks or months get a QuickView Expander to the PVR to more than double the storage capacity via firewire. Commercials are no longer a concern because you can push the Fast Forward key and count to 10 and voilê !

Expander: http://www4.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/consumer_electronics/forms/quickview_info_req.cfm the same people who made the 160 Gb HDD in our PVR (model 4R160L0)

[mfabien]

Wegel,

Getting your interlace digital to analog glitches this afternoon on channel 60 TSN (SD). Other channels not presenting any problems. Therefore, it appears to me that the problem resides with the signals from certain channels and the problem is not reserved to HD channels. And the SA8000HD and your Toshiba are not at fault here.

[mfabien]

By the way, are you aware of any canadian HDTV broadcasters that will be carrying the olympics?

I have an answer from Canadian Digital Telivision...see:
http://206.191.60.3/index.cfm

CBC will only have SD coverage. So, NBC will be my channel...and I will get to know US Athletes !

[57U]

When NBC ran the last Olympics - Salt Lake - on delay the coverage was not "US-centric" I really enjoyed the coverage - could be different this time...

[ropara]

Folks,

Thanks so much for such informative posts. I am a Rogers Cable HD user in Toronto - and have tried the 8000 HD PVR box as a replacement for my SA 3100 and 8000 PVR (non-HD) - and guess what - actually returned it !! I was having problems navigating the format settings - 480i, 480p, 720p and 1081i - widescreen etc.

Bottom line the PQ from the 8000 HD was way inferior to my older SA 3100 box. I use a Sony 50" KF-50WE610 HD monitor.

After reading the posts above obviously from pretty knowledgeable users - perhaps I might be doing something wrong - have a few questions that I would very much appreciate some answers to:

1) Given that my Sony TV supports all formats - what should I select for HD - do Quick Settings and settle for 1081i only ? Or use Advanced or Custom settings ?

My current HD picture from the old SA 3100 box is perfect - I believe it also a 1081i only box for HD.

What do i gain by doing either Advanced Settings and Custom settings to add more formats e.g 720p, 480p etc

Life would be much more simple if the box did a simple pass-through and let the HD monitor do the decoding !



2) Some HD channels like TSN (278) are not broadcast in Widescreen - and with the SA 3100 box - you get black bars. It appears that the 4:3 1081i output from the SA 3100 cannot be stretched.

How does this differ with the 8000 HD ? Basically how can I stretch HD content to fill my 16:9 screen even if it is originally 4:3. What format settings make this possible - if at all on the 8000 HD ?

This is a big issue when watching soccer games.


3) For SD - I currently use S-video out of the SA 3100. During my limited testing with the 8000 HD - I noticed that the S-video output was not working !! I then found out that the box allowed SD programming to be passed via component cables - and the S-video output was not useful.

First - what will give the best PQ for SD - over component with the 8000HD or via trusty old S-Video ?

Secondly - what output format settings is required on the 8000 HD for SD ? I guess 480i ??


For cables - I use pretty high-quality cables - not the box stuff - so i am pretty sure cable quality is not the issue.


In summary - I really struggled with making the output format decisions for both HD and SD (Quick Settings, Advanced Settings and Custom Settings)

And deciding whether to use S-video vs Component for SD.


My ideal setup would be to :

1) Have all input shown as widescreen - so original 16:9 is shown that way and 4:3 material - both SD and HD is automatically displayed as widescreen. Basically no black bars at the side.

2) Be able to receive clearest PQ - both SD and HD from all channels - irrespective of their broadcast format - 480i, 480p, 720p, 1081i

3) Use only one video input out of the box - a component connection for both SD and HD. (Not very critical - if SD PQ is better over S-video)

4) Not have to switch format input - e.g btw 1081i and 720p or 480i or 480 p - just because I go from one channel e.g TSN HD to PBS HD or Fox HD.


I would very much appreciate detailed answers and comments to the above - particularly from anyone that has the Sony KF - 50WE610 HDTV and has also gone from the SA 3100HD to the 8000 HD PVR.

Looking forward to your replies. I've tried to describe this to Rogers Technical support - but only got mumbled template answers in reply !!


Richard

[mfabien]

It's 11:25 PM so I intend to leave you with one thought at this time...

read this thread with care...all or most of the answers are there. Then take one issue at a time and ask the question. We'll help you...step by step. Mod 57U is on a trip right now but he'll back and give us a hand too.

[mfabien]

ropara,

I did send you a private message in reply to your e-mail.

Standing by for your call.

[57U]

1. You should always use the advanced settings - the quick settings make assumptions that may not be correct for your TV.

2. The SA3250HD and SA8000HD have a "stretch" button that can stretch 4:3 upconverted programming. I don't use it much, simply leaving the black bars since I don't watch this type of programming much.

First - you can watch all programming via the component video connection, however, you'll need to change the output format since "passthrough" is not yet available. See the first post in this thread.

Secondly - 480i yes.

1.2.3.4. All of this is possible once passthrough is enabled. In the meantime, you need to change the output format, as previously discussed. I don't really find this a big problem - since it's a DVR, I never watch anything live. I only watch what I've recorded - usually have plenty of recorded programmes to watch - so I set the output to 480i and watch a bunch of recorded SD programmes one night. On another night I might watch a bunch of HD programmes. I rarely need to switch output formats more than once a night.

I suggest you read the manuals that come with the SA8000HD and the first post in this thread.

[Hippie]

Rumor mill on another site mentioned that cablevision should be releasing an updated/upgraded/modified??? SA8200 unit in the next few weeks..

Anyone hear of such a monster>?

[ropara]

Just a quick note to thank Michel and 57U for their suggestions - picked up the 8000 HD again and worked thru the setups. It's working pretty well now.

However definitely looking forward to getting the DVI with Auto-Fix - I am a big channel surfer frequently going back and forth HD and SD channels. I need to change output formats btw 1080i and 480p when I go btw HD and SD channels.

Thanks guys for your help. Very much appreciated.

[TheDreamer]

Rumor mill on another site mentioned that cablevision should be releasing an updated/upgraded/modified??? SA8200 unit in the next few weeks..

Anyone hear of such a monster>?

Is that different from the SA8300 Multi-Room DVR that has been mentioned?

The Dreamer

[Hippie]

Dont know.....
I never heard of the 8300 either..

[PhYrE]

Does anyone else have a constant clicking through both digital and analog audio outs? It comes every 1-10 seconds that sounds like a pop in the speakers. It happens on both the coaxial and RCA jacks. It happens on PVR channels and regular channels. Sometimes it happens, other times it doesn't. Sometimes the recordings are fine and then playback has the clicking.

Any thoughts? It's almost like someone is moving the connections... Any ideas?

-M

[57U]

Some people have reported this "clicking" on some STBs, including the SA8000HD. Try rebooting the box to see if that helps to solve the problem. See the FAQ on SA STBs for instructions on rebooting. If the clicking doesn't stop with a reboot, call the cable company - the problem could be originating with them.

[Dave_Cook]

Is anyone using the Optical Audio Out on the SA8000HD? I had problems where my SA3250 would cut out (no sound) a lot when connecting my speakers to via Optical. Hoping they have it fixed on the SA8000HD...

[TheDreamer]

I use optical out....no complaints with it.....other than the differing audio levels between channels. Seems to be related with whether the channels is output DD2.0, DD5.1 or PCM.

The Dreamer.

[Dave_Cook]

How do you all determine what to record with your 8000HD? Does the IPG display some sort of identifier for shows that are broadcast in Hi-Def or are you relegated to using the internet?

[57U]

Mostly Internet, forums like this, or experience (after 2.5 years you "know" which shows are HD). The Rogers IPG sometimes indicates which shows are HD, but it's not very accurate.

See the FAQ on HD Programming guides - I have about 45 bookmarks that I've found for various channels and guides...

[Dave_Cook]

Mostly Internet, forums like this, or experience (after 2.5 years you "know" which shows are HD). The Rogers IPG sometimes indicates which shows are HD, but it's not very accurate.

See the FAQ on HD Programming guides - I have about 45 bookmarks that I've found for various channels and guides...It's freaking crazy that we should have to do it this way :boo2: I guess I shouldn't complain, at least I'll be able to record HD now :lurk:

[DoubleDAZ]

Whatever happened to recording programs simply because you wanted to watch them, not because they were in HD? :D

Actually, I thought one of the IPG enhancements that were coming at some point was an HD identifier. Did I read this somewhere or was I dreaming again?

[Dave_Cook]

Whatever happened to recording programs simply because you wanted to watch them, not because they were in HD? :D
You know what they say... Once you go HD you never go back :afro:

[DoubleDAZ]

Yeah, even DVDs hold little interest anymore. It's amazing how we complain about things simply because HD as come on the scene. Of course, life was a lot simpler when there were only 3 channels to choose from too, but who wants to go back to those days? :cheers:

[TheDreamer]

Whatever happened to recording programs simply because you wanted to watch them, not because they were in HD? :D


Well, its an HD DVR....why waste the precious space on it recording non-HD content. :wow:

You can use a regular DVR/PVR for recording the SD stuff.

Yeah, even DVDs hold little interest anymore. It's amazing how we complain about things simply because HD as come on the scene. Of course, life was a lot simpler when there were only 3 channels to choose from too, but who wants to go back to those days? :cheers:


When I started getting PVRs...it started impacting my DVD viewing. Because I can watch whatever I want, when I want. With a VCR you record 8 hours of shows...you kind of have to watch it in the order you recorded them (to free up the tape to record over again) and if you don't feel like watching the first show just that moment....you might put it aside to watch a DVD instead.

Then I got digital cable...and that cut into my DVD viewing even more....how it is just that much worse now that I have HD. If only the audio didn't drop out now and then...and the occasional blocking/stuttering during the recording.

Though I want to get a upconverting DVD player at some point.....

The Dreamer.

[DoubleDAZ]

FWIW, vegggas over on AVS posted a Setup and Review Guide for the SA8000HD. It's similar to his Guide for the SA3250HD from a while back. It's based upon his experiences as a beta-tester for Cox-Las Vegas. I thought I'd post the link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4042229) in case some of you might be interested in reading it. As a beta-tester, he had to wait for permission to post it and he finally got that yesterday. I would cross-post the whole thing here, but it's in 2 parts and it's rather lengthy.

[57U]

DD, thanks for the link. Good to see that Passthrough/upconvert1/2 are working there, along with "VCR Out". I didn't see much else that hasn't already been reported here.

I guess we in Canada will need to wait for the SARA that contains these features.

[DoubleDAZ]

DD, thanks for the link. Good to see that Passthrough/upconvert1/2 are working there, along with "VCR Out". I didn't see much else that hasn't already been reported here.

I guess we in Canada will need to wait for the SARA that contains these features.You're welcome. I think the part about Pass-Through though was only working for the beta-test and would not be fully implemented until a later release, so you are no worse off than anyone else yet. Here's the quote about FIXED that I'm referring to:
Although all the options WERE available during my beta testing, ONLY this mode is currently available at the time of this writing. I'm told they will enable the other modes in a future update.
The part about the way vegggas posts that I like is that it's all in one place and is easy to refer to instead of being scattered throughout a large thread like the TWC-SC thread about the 8000HD there.

PS. I found some other stuff in the Banff area (Waterton all the way to Jasper) that appears interesting, so it looks like I will be spending quite a bit of time there once I retire in a few years.

[mfabien]

VCR out works here in Montreal

[Jim Boden]

57U:

Good letter to Rogers. Have you had any feedback?

I've complained about the old SARA versions in our boxes and they gave me a ticket number, with a promise to have someone contact me within 24 to 48 hours. That was 9 days ago and I'm still waiting. Time for another phone call.

[57U]

No feedback from Rogers - wasn't really expecting any - just wanted to point out the issues so they could forward them to SA if they didn't have them on their list already.

[Jim Boden]

Well, this box is truly a joke. I can’t imagine anyone in their right minds designing a cable box which doesn’t output SD at the S-Video or Composite outputs when you switch the video mode to 480i. The only way it works is with the pathetic PIP feature, which doesn’t work when you’re playing back SD recordings. The SA engineers obviously don’t know much about what people really want/need in a decent cable box.

Just to make matters worse, I called Rogers again about the audio dropout problems and their back level software. I was given a “ticket” on July 3 and was promised someone would call me back within 24/48 hours, which they did not. I called them today, 11 days later, and was told by the guy on the phone that the problem was fixed. He’s dreaming in Technicolor. The problem hasn’t been fixed and SARA is still at the same version as early June (1.82.12 I think).

I’m keeping my 3250HD and returning this piece of crap. Good luck to the rest of you. I hope you have more patience than I do. It’s outrageous Rogers has the nerve to charge $25 per month for something so bad.

[mfabien]

Sorry to heard that, Jim.

In my case,

- with Videotron, I have none of the problems associated with those at Rogers
- Enjoy SD PQ with PIP and S-Video but not a problem to watch the occasional SD replay in 1080i and TW3 (don't even change format to 480p on those occasions). I must say that I record much more HD stuff than SD...and that was my reason to get the DVR in the first place. Worst comes to worst, a VCR can do the trick for SD, no? Use Video2 for the VCR.

There is a good chance that DVI may provide a proper resolution for SD by Automatically changing picture format from 1080i to 480i or 480p (in accordance with your advanced setup).

So, if you want the ability to record HD, what will you do? In the other Forum (AVS) news about the DISH 921 are not very good. Granted it is said that 75% if the problems are associated with the OTA part. But there is the advantage of switching outputs at the box vs SA. So ExpressVu can be an option when they get the 921. But it's more money than the SA and it will take time to iron out the problems.

No perfect answer I'm afraid. Not even TIVO HD for the few who have it in the US...they say it is very slow when viewing the IPG to review what's coming or to plan recordings.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

I’m giving Rogers a chance to fix the problem. I told them that Videotron has later versions of the software, which have fixed many of the problems, and gave them the version numbers. I also offered to be a “guinea pig” if they would like someone to test it for them in the real world.

If they can get the Videotron versions to me and they solve most of the problems, I’ll probably keep the box. Having a PVR, especially one that records HD, is definitely very nice.:D

[mfabien]

Hope it works out.

...but I do think that SA has the final say on the next move. Guess Rogers need to reach a certain point before SA gets them to move on with updated versions.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

You might be right about SA holding out on the newer version. When did Videotron start offering the 8000HD? Did it come with the software you're currently running or was there an upgrade afterwards?

[mfabien]

I purchased mine on April 21. The version dates are as follows, according to page 17:

ROM imgage = 1.83.4.2 dated 03-31-04
OS = 6.4.7.1 dated 03-30-04
SARA = 1.83.4.2 dated 03-31-04
PowerKey LIB = 3.5.21.0 dated 02-11-04
HAL2 Driver = 1.1.8.140 dated 03-11-04
ATI Driver = 2.0.50.0 dated 02-25-04
PHAL3 Driver = 3.5.7.5 dated 02-12-04

The first date the SA8000HD became available was 03-10-04. The date the unit was installed, the software was downloaded.

You might be interested to know that updates can be done at anytime during operation of the DVR. Therefore there is no need to shutdown and reboot the unit to see if there's something new.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Thanks for the info, much appreciated as always. I'm going to keep the pressure on Rogers until they tell me something concrete. So far, they're being very non-committal, but at least they acknowledge some of the problems.

[Dave_Cook]

Mostly Internet, forums like this, or experience (after 2.5 years you "know" which shows are HD). The Rogers IPG sometimes indicates which shows are HD, but it's not very accurate.

See the FAQ on HD Programming guides - I have about 45 bookmarks that I've found for various channels and guides...It's looking good for HDTV show info on our IPG in Fort Myers. Got the email below from a contact.

Subject: RE: HD DVR's
Date: July 13, 2004 11:32:16 AM EDT

I wanted to pass along the good news before I forget to share it with you.
We are actually going to have a version update with our TV Data and that
information (which programs are being broadcast in HD) will be available
then. This upgrade is something they are already working on so it should be
in our very near future!

Heather Patton
Marketing Coordinator, Comcast Cable

[goodduffer]

Well - good news and bad news. I have some how moved the audio output to the PIP, which means I am able to record/ archive to VCR with audio as well as video. However I cannot reverse the setup to restore audio to the main non-PIP tuned channel or recorded material.

I was testing the buttons a Smart Remote (programable/learning) model 1994 from Radio Shack, which I had previously setup for a SA 3100HD. I'm pretty sure it was when I was using the 1994 that it happened.

I spoke with Rogers tech support about. They didn't have a solution - tried to fix by rebooting the terminal remotely. I it did fix the problem.

Any suggestions about how to control this switch would be greatly appreciated.

[Dave_Cook]

Yippie :tongue: I get my new SA Explorer 8000HD tomorrow :cheers: Comcast is letting me pick it up and install it myself. Anything special I need to know - or do I just need to read this thread again? ;)

[mfabien]

Suggest you make sure to have a quality component cable. I was not supplied that with the unit.

And use the "Advance setup procedure" to enable all 4 formats and in the following order: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i. The last one entered will become the default. Once the DVI connection gets enabled, and if you do have a DVI input for your Toshiba, the change of format will be done automatically and that is 480p for SD and 1080i for HD if all 4 formats where configured as explained above.

[Dave_Cook]

Thanks - I'm using Monster component cables now so I should be good there. Don't yet have DVI for my Toshiba. Missed the trade-up and am waiting to see what they will offer as an add-on for my model. Having automatic format change will be nice - my Pace 550 does it now, but I realize that the SA models don't do that yet - kinda sucks, but oh well. I can put up with that - this will be my first DVR and it's Hi-Def :tongue:

UPDATE:
Got my SA8000HD yesterday. This morning Comcast updated the software to the versions below:

ROM Image......1.83.4.14
OS.................6.4.7.1
SARA..............1.83.4.14
PowerKEY LIB...3.5.21.1
HAL2 Driver......1.1.13.1110
ATI Driver........2.0.51.310
PHAL3 Driver....3.5.8.1
HTML Engine.....2.1.1.3

Picture quality is excellent on recorded content and the only issue that is obvious at this point is that the audio drops out over optical/digital audio out. Seems this is an ongoing problem for SA, but I can deal with analog audio to get the ability to record HDTV :D This is GREAT! I can record every episode of my favorite shows and watch what I want when I want in Hi-Def :eek:

[mfabien]

Ahhh...

now you are equipped for the forthcoming Olympics. Then the Football season starts and there will be no conflict with your other activities. In fact recordings are best because you can FF the commercials.

[Dave_Cook]

Do you guys think I should try a different audio setup to get digital to work? Maybe it's my Bose 321 Freestyle speakers that are the problem. I had the same digital audio dropout problems with the SA3250. Maybe I should try a tuner and a real 5.1 speaker system :confused:

[Jean-Luc PIGard]

I picked it up and installed it myself...just had to call Cox to activate it. I turned in my 3250 this week. They supplied a bag of cables, but I just used the ones I already had on the 3250. This will cost me an additional $9.65 per month according to the sales person.

I was looking for any PQ problems, and I think the pic may be slightly "softer" looking, but not by much if any. Since I only have a 27" TV, I may not be seeing the PQ problems that some of you have had, so I can't say for sure there aren't any. My firmware versions are in the May 2004 time frame. I haven't seen anything newer yet.

I think this box is going to have growing pains just like the early 3250 had...tiling and sound drop-outs. On Saturday night most of my SHO channels (not the HD one) and half my TMS channels were totally unwatchable...not due to low signal (it was -2) but due to low SN ratio of 22 (usually 35 or 36). I also get more tiling from time to time on other digital channels just like my first 3250 did. If it keeps up, I will probably try to get a different box at some point. This one does have zoom and stretch, but not pass through. I use fixed anyway and set it to 1080i. I just stretch the SD pic and use the TV remote to select "wide" on HD ( I have a 4:3 TV).

I have no problems with the optical digital audio using my $6 Radio Shack cable. It works fine, except that I wish the 8000's remote controlled the volume on digital channels like it does on analog channels. (The 3250 was the same way.) I just have to keep the TV and Receiver remotes out all the time. I suppose I should try to program the 8000 remote to control everything, but I just don't want to think that hard. LOL

It has recorded fine so far, but it won't get much of a workout until fall shows start.


PIGard.

[mfabien]

Do you guys think I should try a different audio setup to get digital to work? Maybe it's my Bose 321 Freestyle speakers that are the problem. I had the same digital audio dropout problems with the SA3250. Maybe I should try a tuner and a real 5.1 speaker system :confused:

There are 3 types of settings you can explore and see if it impacts your digital audio:

First, press the "Settings" button twice

Scroll to *Audio Digital Out*
Try - Dolby Digital
or - Other

In each case above, in addition try:
Scroll to *Audio Range*
Try - Narrow
or - Normal
or - Wide

There's also *Audio Volume Ctrl* with a choice of
- Variable
or - Fixed (in which case you leave at maximum set under variable and use the TV remote or A/V remote for volume)

[Dave_Cook]

Unfortunately I don't have those options :( All I have is Audio Volume Control...

[mfabien]

Well that is strange. According to your first post your software version is more recent than mine (see my post # 106). Perhaps you can ask your cable company to verify with SA and advise you why your present software does not include *Audio Digital Out* and *Audio Range* in the General Settings.

Wonder if the reason could be that your cable provider is not providing you with a 100% digital cable service as is the case with my cable service...just a thought. My thinking is that the one of the *Digital Out* function could be inappropriate under analog cable and the problem would then be that while the digital audio would work for HD, and other digital channels it, it would not under analog channels. By forcing you to use the RCA audio cables, audio works for both HD and SD for all channels.

If they confirm the above to be the case, I would request the *Audio Digital Out* update saying you are fully prepared to make the change under General Settings when applicable. And ask the *Audio Range* update as well.

[bmaltais]

Good night all,

I have been following on and off the HDTV scene and I am now making the jump. I went to my local Videotron Provider office and got a loan of the SA8000HD unit.

I could not beleive that they require 72 hours for processing the request and that they need to send a tech to do the install. What a waste of time. Any way, I am booked for friday.

Too bad the DVI port is not yet active. I was planning on connecting through DVI to my SONY TV. I will have to wait a bit for it.

One question on the SD channels PQ. Is it that they actually look worse than through S-Video or that the stretch mode are limited to the STB unit and not the actual TV? If it is a PQ factor how much worse is it? I am asking since I will probably watch some SD on it alon side the HD signal.

Can't wait to get the actual box!

Cheers!

[The Tech]

TMS channels were totally unwatchable...not due to low signal (it was -2) but due to low SN ratio of 22 (usually 35 or 36).

PIGard.

very, very, VERY small chance thats a box issue. a S/N of 22 means theres a problem either wire, or system. call the cable co. pronto! and have a service tech check it out. just cause the tuner or FDC says -2 does not mean its ok. thats just the data carrier.

[Splicer]

It isn't that SD PQ is bad, it is just that these HD sets are not designed for analog reception so the sets have a harder time with SD than HD. The new bigger TV's just show every little flaw like a sore thumb. Kinda like how a 32" may have a so-so picture on any channel but a 13" TV will look fabulous running off the same feed. :smokin:

[Splicer]

You really do NOT want negative numbers at the back of the set, A -2 should be closer to +5 (my personal optimal desire at that back of the TV) up to and including +10. There is definately a line problem. Get the cable co out there and don't settle for such a low signal. In this day and age a -2 is unacceptable. You may just need a house amplifier to get the levels up if you have more than 2 active lines. :smokin:

[57U]

Splicer, I believe we're referring to the signal strength at the SA8000HD STB. A signal strength of anything above -10dB is usually just fine. Some installers actually recommend against a positive number and say that zero is about optimum.

S/N should be about 35 though. 22 is definitely quite low. See the FAQ on SA STBs.

Motorolas may run differently.

[Splicer]

57U, are we talking output of the STB or the input to the STB??? I am speaking of the input. I hope I do not insult you my friend, but, I trust my knowledge of what optimum levels should be over an installer that does not do any kind of line work. Not saying that they don't know what they are talking about but, oh what the hell...Yes I am ;) . At least that is here in the states. The great white north may be different as I have stated once or twice before.

As I said, I do not mean to insult you if you are an installer. :smokin:

[57U]

I'm talking about the signal strength as measured by the STB itself in the STB diagnostics (not by an external piece of equipment). If you read the FAQ on the SA STBs, it may become clearer.

[Splicer]

Huh? That means the INPUT level dude. Using a 'seperate' instrument that is much more accurate than any internal add-on in a STB that has been slammed around in an installers truck. Thats cool tho dude. I guess I have been wrong the past 21+ years. I'll go read your FAQ's and maybe then I will be qualified to reply on this or any other forum that concerns cable tv. It is obvious I am just full of hot air and my experience in this field means nadda since I didn't gain any of my knowledge from your FAQ sheet.

[mfabien]

One question on the SD channels PQ. Is it that they actually look worse than through S-Video or that the stretch mode are limited to the STB unit and not the actual TV? If it is a PQ factor how much worse is it? I am asking since I will probably watch some SD on it alon side the HD signal.

Can't wait to get the actual box!

Cheers!

First for posters Splicer and The Tech, with Videotron in Montreal if one wishes to have HD signals, a customer must select the Illeco package which is 100% digital. Therefore, the SD signals are as good as can be. We always keep in mind that certain channels may have a better signal than others which has more to do with the transmission source than with the cable.

Bonjour bmaltais,

May I suggest that once you have the SA8000HD installed, see the difference between viewing SD channels via the Component connection in either 1080i, 480i or 480p and switching to Video1 with a S-Video connection (and I use the TV's Theatre Wide 1 as a screen format) and make your decision.

With the component connection, in addition to the Stretch and Zoom modes, using the SA remote, I can select screen formats using the TV's remote. For the component input, I prefer using Theatre Wide 3.

In my case (Toshiba RPTV) the S-Video image for SD, is clearer and brighter. However, I do playback SD recorded programs using the Component input so I may retain the recording controls (FF in particular to jump the commercials). BTW, I read a post in an other forum that the US poster using the DVI connection still prefers using the S-Video connection for SD. It may be a good idea to specify what Sony TV model you have in your signature.

In passing, the component cable that came with the SA box from Videotron gave me a poor HD picture. I replaced the cable and am very happy with PQ.

[Splicer]

mfabien, it does my heart good that you enjoy the PQ from your cable co :) . Have you tried connecting the cable directly to your tv input? How did the picture look? :smokin:

[The Tech]

just so everyone knows the Tuner, FDC and RDC are ONLY DATA CARRIERS! not signal strength!

get the techs out there to measure signal

[mfabien]

mfabien, it does my heart good that you enjoy the PQ from your cable co :) . Have you tried connecting the cable directly to your tv input? How did the picture look? :smokin:

Yes I have...nothing ! The signal needs to go through the STB because it is digital and therefore coded as if it was from a premium channel.

[57U]

mfabien, I'm pretty sure that the signal that comes to your home is both analogue and digital. If you have a STB, it'll tune to the "digital" signals. If you have an analogue TV (like 99% of people still do), it'll tune to the analogue channels. You need to input the split cable signal (before going through the STB - directly from the wall) directly to the TV as though it were a "regular" TV. Make sure the menu is set to CATV or something similar, etc. Use the TVs internal tuner to tune to the analogue channels...

[mfabien]

I switched the cable from the STB to the Antenna 1 input and yes I get the analog channels from 1 to 77. Most channels are under different numbers in analog mode.

I remember when I first received the Toshiba, the ExpressVu satellite connection installers expressed surprised at the quality of the cable image (while waiting for satellite installation, I had switched the cable from the 28" TV the the Toshiba). My cable was physically change from the telephone poll to the house a few years ago when I contracted cable high speed internet service.

[Dave_Cook]

Got some info regarding audio options at the Fort Myers/Naples headend. They have it "hard coded" so that all I can do is adjust the Audio Volume Control. My contact said they had too much of a problem with people changing the other values on their own - and he made it a point to mention that I was the only one out of 65,000 digital cable box users to ask :headscrat

I guess I'm going to buy a new AV Receiver and some better speakers. My Bose 321 Freestyle could be the problem. Here's what I'm looking at (it fit's my budget and has good reviews)

HSU Research VT-12 Speakers w/ STF-1 Subwoofer (http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/hsu_research_ventriloquist_vt12_stf1.htm) + an Onkyo SR502 Surround Sound Receiver (http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&u=c&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=91318&catoid=-8021&m=0)

[Splicer]

Dave Cook, What is the problem you are having? :smokin:

[Dave_Cook]

When I'm watching live or recorded I get intermittent audio dropouts over digital - both coax and optical. Funny thing is that if I press the replay button on my remote it's fine, so my thought is that it is either the SA box or my Bose 321 Freestyle speaker system. Since others aren't having dropouts with good AV receivers and speakers I'm on the fence about purchasing the new stuff mentioned above. It would be cool to have an actual Dolby 5.1 system anyways. The system I have is only 2 speakers and a subwoofer.

[57U]

I just realized that I don't recall a single audio dropout on my SA8000HD in about a month. I watch several hours of recorded programmes each night - recorded from analogue channels, SD digital and HD.

[Dave_Cook]

I just pulled the trigger on the Onkyo SR502 Receiver and HSU VT-12/STF-1 Speakers/Subwoofer. Total package just above $750 with shipping. Can't wait for some kick ass sound :smokin:

[Splicer]

Very cool Dave. I know you will like 'true' 5.1 sound over the Bose 'stereo wide' sound. Hope your neighbors don't get ticked off too easily! :smokin:

[Dave_Cook]

Very cool Dave. I know you will like 'true' 5.1 sound over the Bose 'stereo wide' sound. Hope your neighbors don't get ticked off too easily! :smokin:Hehe. Me too :whistle:

[nchdtv]

I had my SA8000 installed today. TWC came and installed it during the day while I was at work. My wife did not ask any questions at all, so since I could not talk to the installer, I've got some questions.

I have read the FAQ's on SA Boxes and have read this thread, but I'm still a bit confused on a few points:

1. When I hit the guide button, the guide comes up in 4x3 format with Grey boxes on the side. On my old STB (Pioneer HD box), the guide was stretched to cover my 16x9 Hitachi F500. Is there anyway to get the guide to stretch?

2. I haven't tried the "Wizard" yet. All I've done is gone to setting and selected all 4 formats 1080i,480i,480p,720p. Is this ok to do? Or should I only be selecting some of those formats?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but reading through these threads can be a bit confusing and it seems that most of the info. is based on Rogers and other Canadian setups.

[DoubleDAZ]

The SA8000HD does not yet have a pass-through option, so what you are probably getting is a 1080i format for the guide that your TV can't stretch. You should be able to manually change the format to 480i and the TV should then be able to stretch it. Unfortunately, every time you switch SD/HD channels you will have to manually switch the format to/from 1080i/480i. I believe the pass-through option is supposed to be released sometime before the end of the year.

As far as what formats to enable, there is nothing wrong with selecting all of those. However, once the pass-through option becomes available, the box will have to reformat every time you scan from SD to HD or from ABC (720p) to other HD (1080i) channels. Many folks simply select 480i and 1080i to minimize this reformatting. Unless you can see a difference in PQ using 720p (or if you have a 720p native display), there really is no reason to enable all formats. Most HDTVs only display 2 formats, 480i (or something fairly close to that) and either 720p or 1080i.

[57U]

There's no real concern in leaving the guide up as 4:3 as long as you don't leave it up that way forever. I don't change formats just for the guide.

Also, since I rarely watch live TV, I usually only switch formats once a night. For example, I'll watch a bunch of recorded HD programmes one night in 1080i, and watch a bunch of SD programmes in 480P another... This eliminates the switching back and forth until passthrough is enabled as discussed earlier.

[mfabien]

1. When I hit the guide button, the guide comes up in 4x3 format with Grey boxes on the side. On my old STB (Pioneer HD box), the guide was stretched to cover my 16x9 Hitachi F500. Is there anyway to get the guide to stretch?

2. I haven't tried the "Wizard" yet. All I've done is gone to setting and selected all 4 formats 1080i,480i,480p,720p. Is this ok to do? Or should I only be selecting some of those formats?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but reading through these threads can be a bit confusing and it seems that most of the info. is based on Rogers and other Canadian setups.

1. Should you want the "Guide" to fill the screen, click "Settings" once, scroll down to Format and change from 1080i to 480p or 480i.

2. This should be your first step. Use the "Advance setup Instructions" rather than the Quick Wizard. The formats should be specified in the following order:
480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. Specifying 480p after 480i will make 480p your default for SD. Specifying 1080i after 720p will render 1080i the default for your component connection until changed as said in answer to parag. 1.

[mfabien]

Concerning Audio problems,

It appears that many SA8000HD users with more advanced SARA programming do not have the following selections which I have in my General Settings:

* Audio Digital Out
with choice of: - "Dolby Digital" and "Other"

* Audio Range
with choice of: - "Narrow", "Normal" and "Wide"

But most have:

*Audio Volume Ctrl
with choice of: - "Variable" and "Fixed" (under fixed [after making volume full while in variable], the TV remote or the AV will control volume)

[Splicer]

Wow. My Motorola has both coaxial and variable L & R outputs. The box volume is set to maximum, and then I use the TV volume (when I don't want to disturb my sleeping family).

Normally though, I use the coaxial out (both STB outputs are utilized) and my A/V receiver plays most channels in pro logic but automatically switches to Dolby Digital when it receives a DD signal for movies. The STB has a location for an optical out but does not provide the actual jack for optical out :( . I would prefer optical out but my receiver only has 1 optical and 2 coaxial digital inputs and the one optical I have dedicated to the DVD player.

The only real choices available for the STB is aspect ratio, and closed captioning with about a zillion ways to set the CC up. Those are the ONLY user adjustments that I am aware of on my STB. But then again I have no troubles with audio/video drop out so I can't really complain too loudly.

Sounds like the SA STB is alot more user friendly. :smokin:

[mfabien]

If you click the attached file, you can print the General Settings I have and the programming versions are first specified.

If you have something different, please specify. If you are missing an item and you wish to know what it does, you can ask and if I know the answer, I will tell.

[nchdtv]

I'm going to follow mFabien's advice and go through the Advance setup instructions. As I mentioend in the previous post, I was not there when the Tech set up the box (according to my wife, he said it was his first install of this box, so not sure if he even set it up correctly). I'm also going to check my SARA version and signal strength.

I'm hoping that will fix the poor SD reception I'm getting vs. my old Pioneer HD box. For example, last night CNN was almost unwatchable.

When I checked my TV settings when that SD channel (and others are on) it said it was a 480i signal. As previously mentioned, I have all 4 settings selected under "Settings". Do I need to manually select only 480i, everytime I watch SD and "de-select" the other 3? Then, when I go to HD programming, do I have to go back in and manually select 1080i?

Am I correct in assuming that this process will be easier when Passthrough becomes available? When available, will this Passthrough feature come "automatically" overnight via a signal to the box, or will I have to get a nex box.

Lastly, I guess I can try MFabien's approach of hooking up an S-Video cable into Video1 on my Hitachi and selecting it when watching SD channels. Currently I only have a good set of Component cables running to the set. :santa:

[mfabien]

nchdtv,

Once you do the Advanced setup, your default format for component connection will be 1080i. If you select an SD channel via component, it will still be with 1080i. You can then press the "Settings" button once and scroll down to change to 480p. If you have a DVI input in your TV back panel and once DVI gets activated by your cable company, the format will change automatically (Auto-Fix).

Notwithstanding the above, I prefer S-Video connection for SD. Once you select Video1 with your TV remote, the format will be 480i. But that's me and because of my TV. Your result or your taste could be different.

[nchdtv]

How do I know if the DVI port is "active"?

My set has a DVI port, and since this box is so new to TWC Charlotte, I can only imagine what the Cust. Serv. Rep. will think when I ask this question. Is there someway I can tell through the Advance Setup Wizard?

Finally, I did some checking online for pricing....boy $100 bucks for a DVI cable is a bit pricey. Anyone know if this is reasonable for one of these bad boys.

Finally, I'm still trying to figure out if I will get the Passthrough "automatically" via a firmware update overnight, or will I have to get a new box from TWC with the feature enabled.

[57U]

1. DVI is not active yet anywhere - not until the fall at the earliest.

2. See the FAQ on DVI connections - you can buy a DVI cable for around $20.

3. Firmware will update automatically overnight - you probably won't even know it happened.

[nchdtv]

What am I doing wrong. I followed the AVS link that mfabien posted earlier in the thread.

I turned off the box (left the TV on) and pressed the GUIDE and INFO buttons together on the front of the box. The Envelope light did not light up and nothing came on my screen.

Is there some other way to get into the wizard? Do I need to unplug the unit and get there while it is rebooting?

Any help would be appreciated.

[57U]

No need to unplug or reboot, although you may wish to do a reboot, wait a few minutes until everything's OK (time displayed for a few minutes and then retry the wizard.

The reboot instructions and the wizard instructions are in the FAQ on SA STBs.

[mfabien]

What am I doing wrong. I followed the AVS link that mfabien posted earlier in the thread.

I turned off the box (left the TV on) and pressed the GUIDE and INFO buttons together on the front of the box. The Envelope light did not light up and nothing came on my screen.

Is there some other way to get into the wizard? Do I need to unplug the unit and get there while it is rebooting?

Any help would be appreciated.

If you wish to use the Wizard, click and print the following:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/getting_started/4003114B.pdf

Or you may do it the following way:

1. Make sure the LED for Power is on at the DVR (if not, press power on the remote)
2. Press SELECT button until the Message light blinks
3. Press the VOL- key to indicate that you want to select picture format settings. The LED display shows HdSr to indicate that the set-top is in the Picture Format mode for HDTV settings.

You have 20 seconds to start and to continue If you miss, restart ar 2 above.

4. Press CH+ ...the set-top briefly displays 480i then displays SEt
5. Press CH- ...the set-top briefly displays 480p then displays SEt
6. Press VOL- ...the set-top briefly displays 720p then displays SEt
7. Press VO:+ ...the set-top briefly displays 1080 then displays SEt

You are done and after 20 seconds TIME will be displayed.

Suggest you copy and paste the above in NotePad then print.

[nchdtv]

Mfabien,

I printed out your instructions, and I'm holding the "+" button in the center of the unit (with the unit powered up). My message light (next to icon of "flying" envelope) does not light up.

I've held it for a minute straight. Any ideas?

[TheDreamer]

Are you running SARA?

In Passport you can change the format from the settings menu.

The Dreamer

[mfabien]

nchdtv,

At the unit press the Select center button and hold until the Message LED light comes on. Then press the Info button.

Now using the remote, with the page + or page - button, go to page 17 of 22 and copy what's there and post that here.

[57U]

nchdtv, it's really weird that neither the wizard instructions, nor the diagnostics instructions are working. This is a really weird question, but which STB do you have? If you have an SA box, these instructions should work. Did you reboot the box?

[DoubleDAZ]

He said in an earlier post that he has an SA8000HD and he's with TWC. Could be he's running Passport and not SARA.

[nchdtv]

Guys,

Thanks so much for helping me. I just confirmed via a reboot that I am running "Passport (Echo)" as the software.

Are there any instructions for getting into the wizard using that software. I am frankly "shocked" at how bad some of the channels look vs. my previous box (Pioneer 3500 HD).

[TheDreamer]

Guys,

Thanks so much for helping me. I just confirmed via a reboot that I am running "Passport (Echo)" as the software.

Are there any instructions for getting into the wizard using that software. I am frankly "shocked" at how bad some of the channels look vs. my previous box (Pioneer 3500 HD).

This:

In Passport you can change the format from the settings menu.


And, the neat thing is you can select add 480p and 480i...and content that is in 480p or 480i will pass through and then your TV can do the conversions. The thing that caught is just about everything, that I receive, that isn't HD on the box...comes out as 480p, except for "Answers On Demand" which is 480i.

If you select 1080i as one of your formats, all the HD is 1080i....though that could just be because I think all the HD channels that are available in my area are native 1080i (no ABC, FOX, or ESPN in my HD lineup yet). Haven't decided whether having the box output 720p or 1080i is best....but having it pass 480p is better.... My TV's native resolution is 720p.

The Dreamer.

[bmaltais]

Have you ever tried the archive to VCR feature? I tried it on HD content and guess what, it comes out with black bars all around the picture. Essentially the picture is about one quarted the size of the screen. This sucks. It is not even worth putting on DVD/Tape at that king of res.

Am I doing something wrong?

I tried it on SD 4:3 material and it comes out filling all the screen.

Could this be a Bug with the SARA software?

[57U]

This is normal for upconverted 4:3 material. True HD material will have grey/black bars only above and below the image. Remember that HD is 16:9 and VCRs record in 4:3.

If the "HD" channel you're trying to tape has 4:3 material, that 4:3 material is forming only "part" of the 16:9 image, the rest being the black bars on the sides, therefore when recorded you get black bars to the sides and grey/black bars above and below depending on your setting on the SA8000HD for the colour of these bars.

[mfabien]

Have you ever tried the archive to VCR feature? I tried it on HD content and guess what, it comes out with black bars all around the picture. Essentially the picture is about one quarted the size of the screen. This sucks. It is not even worth putting on DVD/Tape at that king of res.

Am I doing something wrong?

I tried it on SD 4:3 material and it comes out filling all the screen.

Could this be a Bug with the SARA software?

HD data can be archived to your VCR and it will have black bars on top and at the bottom (letterbox). Before you do this, go to your Video TV input (Video2 ?) and bring in an SD channel (first go to component input, select SD channel, press PIP then SWAP) and select Theatre Wide 1 with your TV remote control. That will save that screen size until changed.

Now if you archive SD or HD, you will have a full screen format.

As for the 4:3 format recorded from HD channels. Never recorded that from an HD channel. Go to the SD channel of that Network and record from that source (same time).

[Dave_Cook]

Okay - got my 160GB SA8000HD (Comcast switched out the 80GB they ordered by mistake). I'm in heaven! BUT, I had to get a new sound system to truly enjoy surround - so new speakers and receiver. Next I decided to buy a new couch. It's SWEET. All leather and it leans back with the feet that kick out as well. After I got rid of my old couch I realized how crappy my carpet looked so I'm getting new carpet in my HT tomorrow as well :eek: Good timing though, as I'll be able to run my speaker wires at that time.

All this stuff adds up :tongue: I'm gonna be couchin' it in style with all this Hi-Def content in my upgraded home theater :cheers:

[bmaltais]

I guess I am so used to my 16:9 TV that I forgot about the fact that VCR ar 4:3. Too bad.

I am amazed at the TMNHD and PBSHD content.

[mfabien]

[QUOTE=bmaltais I am amazed at the TMNHD and PBSHD content.[/QUOTE]


Before each program on PBSHD, we are told (with blue screen) if the next program is in HD or in Wide Screen. Both are very good but HD is quite better. I particularly enjoy the current series by Smart Travel and have recorded visits to Rome, Venice, Genoa-Portofino and Florence.

[bmaltais]

Thank you mfabien for the tip on the HD vs WideScreen content on PBS.

On a side note, it would be nice if the 8000HD offered the option of archiving HD material in fullscreen mode so than when played back through VCR it could be stretched by the TV to fill the screen for proper aspect ratio.

This way we would have the best resolution of archived material via recordable DVD or SVHS tapes. In fact if capturing to DVD via a PC we could force the widescreen flag so the DVD player would display it widescreen through component cables.

[mfabien]

bmaltais,

When I archive 16:9 HD recordings to my VCR, and then view the playback on Video2 TV input, I always get a widescreen image because my Video2 is configured for Theatre Wide 1 format. But for HD, I do have upper and lower grey bars.

[57U]

It certainly would be "neat" if the SA8000HD gave you the option to send an anamorphic type image to the VCR, so that the HD image would be recorded in "stretched vertically full-screen" (just like an anamorphic DVD) and then you could stretch it back to the proper dimensions using the horizontal stretch only on your widescreen TV.

This would also provide you with a higher resolution, just like you get a higher resolution on anamorphic DVDs. Unfortunately this option is not provided for.

[Dave_Cook]

Last night I got my Onkyo TX-SR502 Receiver and HSU VT-12/STF-1 Speakers & Subwoofer installed. No More Digital Audio Dropouts! All I can say is WOW!

I never knew what I was missing not having an AV receiver and rear surrounds. Very nice.

[max]

Today for a brief period of about 1/2 hour my remote stopped working for my SA8000HD! at first I thaught it might be the iPronto so I got a bit pissed and started playing around, Then I pulled out the remote that came with the unit and that did not work either! So I tried the other 3 rogers remotes I have in the house with no luck still. So I unplugged the unit and left it for 5 mins, plugged it back in and waited for it to boot, still no sign of life! I unplugged it again had a quick snack then came back. I plugged it back in and this time IT WORKED!!! what a relief, but I was wondering is this an early sign of a problem or has anyone here had this happen on their unit also?

I dont want to swap the unit because I have been recording the entire season of "The Meth and Red Show" for a friend who took a trip to Portugal for the summer. So any heads up on if this is a problem I should be worried about please let me know...

Thanks in advance...
MAX,

[57U]

This issue of the unit being non-responsive to the remote happens once in a while. A simple reboot usually resolves the issue - no need to unplug the unit - reboot instructions in the FAQ on SA STBs.

[mfabien]

Someone in the past, could have been 57U, stated that recording times when recordings are activated from the Guide could not be adjusted beyond the time slot and this caused a problem for sports subject to overtime...

Well you can, at least I can with my present version of SARA, the way to do it is:

1. From the IPG click the Record button for your selected program
2. Press the List button for recordings then the "A" button for the scheduled recordings
3. Put the cursor over the desired scheduled recording and press "Select"
4. Change either Start time or Stop time or both.

[57U]

You can also do it by editing the recording and changing the start or stop time as you are doing the initial programming - I'm not at home, but you press the "options" button or something like that..

Early on, this caused some problems with certain programmes, but I've done it myself recently without difficulty.

Manual recordings still seem to cause some difficulty... for example setting a recording for "every Wednesday at 9PM" seems to sometimes "create" two events and then the following week the recording is not done properly. I've therefor been using the IPG to set all recordings.

If the programme doesn't repeat too often in the week, then I ask for "every episode" instead of a single event, however, if "every episode" means that I'm going to get 10 recordings that week, I prefer to simply set a new event each week, when I review the TV guide on Saturday...

[nchdtv]

On my SA8000HD box with Passport Echo software, when I select an event series to record I have the option of "First Run Only" or "Every episode".

I assume that with "First Run Only" I will not get any repeat episodes.

Is this correct? Do the people with SARA have this recording option under the Series Recording Options?

[57U]

That option is not available yet with SARA. There are a lot of "wish list" items covered in the first post of this thread that will be "coming".

[summerfun]

Just picked up my SA 8000HD DVR for TWC in Wisconsin. As far as I can tell, it is exactly the same menu and software as I had with the SD DVR.

Many of the complaints about missing features are not missing in my SD version and are not missing in my HD version. I don't know if they have different software or what.

Here are a few of the features others have said are missing, but I have.

You can set output to 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i. or any combination.

You can set 4:3 to side bar or stretch or zoom.

You can set to record new and repeats or just new.

You can set to record just certain days or all days.

You can set to record just certain channels or all channels.

You can set to start early or end late and by how many minutes.

You can set to record just one show or every episode of show.

You can set priorities of programming.

You can set how long to save.

[57U]

I believe that these features are an indication of Passport firmware in your STB. Most people who have SARA firmware are waiting for some of the items you mention.

[summerfun]

Yes, it does say "Passport" when booting up. As I said, I had the same software on the SD DVR that I have been using for almost two years. It seems to be very good and user friendly. I have am so excited to finally have my HD version.

[fcsmith]

summerfun, could you post the version of Passport Echo that your 8000HD is running? Thanks.

[summerfun]

summerfun, could you post the version of Passport Echo that your 8000HD is running? Thanks.
The software version is 1.5.062

[cdnscg]

summerfun, what screen resolutions are you using for Sd and what for Hd if different? ie: 480i or 480p for Sd and 720p or 1080i for Hd

[summerfun]

I have messed around with those outputs quite alot. I have found that the best PQ is to leave everything on 1080i output.

When you have more than one set up, the TV will flicker between channel changes and I hate that. It did not seem to improve PQ anyway so I just leave it on 1080i.

[cdnscg]

Thanks for the reply

[nchdtv]

I was attempting to watch the Olympics tonight on my SA8000 unit. A few minutes ago I turned it off, I was so frustrated with it.

I was going to watch the NBC HD channel, but when I learned that it was on a 1 hour delay for the Opening ceremonies, I decided to switch to the SD NBC channel via the "Last" button on the remote. I was intermittently "flipping" from the SD channel (480p) to the HD channel (1080i), just to see the video differences.

For some reason, whenever I would go from the HD channel back to the SD channel for the Olympics, the SD channel would have intermittent video freezeups until the point where the screen completely froze up on an image.

I would have to unplug the SA unit and reboot, to get it working again. No other channels in my entire lineup were suffering this problem except for my SD NBC channel. I must have had to reboot the unit 7-8 times over a 1 hour period.

I cannot describe how frustrated/dissapointed I am so far with this unit.

Any ideas where this latest bug is coming from?

[mfabien]

Never had that experience. I can tell you that I flip from SD to HD and vice versa all day long by using the PIP and SWAP feature and going to my S-Video Video1 TV input. Should you do this, you would never get your Component connection mixed up by changing the picture format.

[nchdtv]

I don't know what the problem was last night. What's weird is that I turned the set back on about 10:30 pm (about 1 hour after I last watched) and it tuned in to the exact same spot in the program that I left it (ie. it kept the show going in the buffer).

Once I hit "live" it seemed to work find. I'm beginning to think it somehow has to do with the buffer, but I was not recording any shows last night.

[57U]

Whenever you do a "reboot", you should leave the STB "alone" for a few minutes. The STB is still downloading stuff, like the IPG, even though you can turn it on. This seems to confuse the STB. This can be hard when there's a programme on that you want to watch, but I rarely watch any "live" TV any more, I watch only recorded stuff.

[nchdtv]

I've had a myriad of issues with my SA box from TWC, which I've had for 3 weeks.

I seem to be having frequent video freezeups, and eventually, the screen freezes completely and the box has to be rebooted. This has happened on multiple occasions.

Also several times, when I've turned on the box and hit the "List" button to get to the DVR list, I get a message that the Hard Drive is not accessible and prompts me to restart the box.

Has anyone else had these kind of issues? Or should I just call TWC and ask for a replacment box.

[57U]

This could indicate a bad sector on the HDD. Perhaps you can give it a week or so, watch all the programmes you've prerecorded and when you have a "quiet time" with no/few recordings on the DVR, return it for a replacement if you're still encountering the same issues.

[nchdtv]

57U,

I don't really have much on the DVR drive right now (at least nothing worth saving).

Are you suggesting that deleting all of it and then rebooting will help? Or should I just set up an appointment for replacement.

[57U]

My suggestion had nothing to do with deleting. I was simply suggesting that a good time for a "swap" would be when you have little/nothing that you want to watch on the HDD.

An option may be to have them "reformat" the HDD - I believe this can be redone remotely - they can completely reset the STB. That may be an option and if it still acts up afterwards, then you can get a swap....

[mfabien]

For people like me waiting for the cable provider to activate the DVI output (hoping for September), you might want to check your DVI Input for Contrast and Brightness...my Contrast was 100 !

Suggest you start with the same setup you have for the Component input. As you know, your TV memorizes the setup independently for each input (even if there's no Video for the input). By doing this, your first impression of the PQ may be better.

[nchdtv]

After my 10th manual reboot of my SA8000 box yesterday (video was freezing intermittently, and eventually freezing on screen totally with NBC HD Olympic channel), I called TWC and they're going to swap the box out this Wednesday.

I'll keep in touch and see if my issues were just the result of a "lemon".

[Splicer]

Can one transfer the content of the HDD to a computer so you can burn the program on DVD (providing of course you want to save any programming for an extended period)???

[Blaster]

wow , your saying you think your problem is YOUR BOX !
mine has done what you described freeze,lock-up,intermittently,for hours
been doing it 4-5 months since I've had it installed
call Adelphia numerous times complaining,service has been here 15 times or so
I & They are under the thinking that it is IN the System; I never even considered the NEW Box... hell,Adelphia has even just gave me a $40.00 credit trying to keep me happy... will have to read up more about tinkering with my MOTO 6200...

[Splicer]

Keep trying for the rebates :whistle: :rofl2: !!!

[Splicer]

In all seriousness guys, I doubt that the box itself is at fault. Sounds more like a software glitch more than anything. This is just a guess as I have a Motorola box but it seems to me the most likely cause...

[Blaster]

Well that was what I was thinking...
March '04 got the box and 4 HD chan (nbc,abc,shohd,strzhd) like 4 new kids : )
but all they did was freeze , lock , pixelate - I called complaining (nothing)
then like 1.5 month later I get HDnet,HDnetMv they hardly ever frz (but do at times)
still that way to this day ;1st four lock up all the time ; HDnet hardly ever ...???
I will be pimping for my 40 buck credit next month too if no fix comes !

[nchdtv]

TWC came to my house and swapped out my "devil" box, with a new one.

I mentioned to the installer about the issues I was having (of course, I could not replicate them while he was there).

He mentioned that here in Charlotte, they are seeing a high % of bad boxes. It was his belief that the problem was hardware related rather than software. Apparently, I'm not the only one having the problem. His opinion was that they rushed the box to the market without enough testing.

Also he mentioned that the non-HD version of the DVR box is running at a 30% failure rate.

The new box seems to be working fine for now. I'll report any problems, if they occur.

[DoubleDAZ]

I'd be willing to bet that most problems are related to the HDD and that a reformat will resolve many of them. The biggest problem is that we have become a plug 'n' play society and it's easier for them to simply swap out the box and hope for the best. :)

[mfabien]

CBS will run the James Bond movie "Tomorrow Never Dies" this Sunday, August 29.

A few months ago CBS put it on and I tried to save it on my SA8000HD DVR. The following morning it was erased. At the time Scientific Atlanta confirmed to provider Videotron that it was erased because the DVI (and more importantly the HDCP card) was not active. Let's see what happens this time. And I may as well not take a chance and see the movie Sunday!

Would be interesting to see if others with the SA8000HD could try recording it also and see if it's still in your recording list Monday morning. Maybe this time CBS puts a different flag or don't bother to flag it, who knows.

[scherer326]

Two simple questions with this box

1. does it comes with a DVI connection
2. can you record HD channels and shows

Is there a service menu somewhere online that somebody can send me the link for.

[57U]

It comes with a DVI connector, however none are yet "activated". It should be soon. Yes you can record HD with the SA8000HD. Please see the first post of this thread for additional summary information

[mfabien]

CBS will run the James Bond movie "Tomorrow Never Dies" this Sunday, August 29.


During the showing of "Tomorrow Never Dies" by CBSHD, on occasion I pressed the Pause button. As you know the recording system shows a green line to display the amount of recording time. Well as the picture progressed, the beginning of the green line was changing to red. So much so that after 2 hours, at 11:00 PM, half of the green line had turned to red...the red line was eating up the green line! To me that meant that the recording had a definite time limit and that shortly after the end, possibly an hour, the recording would be erased as it did the first time CBS put this on. It appears that HDCP was doing its thing because the DVR's DVI connection has not been activated.

But wait, I did something different this time. First, I watched the movie as it was transmitted and second I stop and saved the recording minutes before the programmed end time in the recording schedule. I then took a look at the listing, and it was there, then I made a selection for the playback, and the picture started, and I paused and the 2.5 hour recording had a green line all the way.

This morning, during the recording of the Closing Ceremonies at the Olympics, I paused that recording and the entire recording period since the start had a green line, as expected. Then from the listing I selected "Tomorrow Never Dies" and the picture is still there!

Did I find a way to beat the HDCP system? Did anyone else try to record this movie?

[gromit]

I think you are somewhat confused as to what HDCP is. HDCP is a form of encryption that can be used over a DVI or HDMI connection to prevent people from making perfect digital copies of an HDTV signal. HDCP has nothing to do with pausing or recording using your SA 8000 HD and you didn't get around it.

Everything you watching is automatically recorded by your SA 8000 (HD and/or non-HD). This enables you to pause "live tv" and even rewind it. Because it records what you are watching, even if you haven't selected it to, you can choose to record something you are watching even half way through the episode/show and in most cases (provided you haven't changed channels) it will be able to save the entire show from the beginning.

The red bar indicates that part of the program that was recorded no longer is recorded because too much time had passed. According to the User Guide that should have come with your DVR, the SA 8000 HD will save up to one hour of a show you are watching (provided of course that you don't change the channel). Because you were watching a program longer than one hour, it would not have recorded the entire thing unless you had specifically selected to record the program at any point before it had started, up to one hour into the program.

[Dave_Cook]

This enables you to pause "live tv" and even rewind it. Because it records what you are watching, even if you haven't selected it to, you can choose to record something you are watching even half way through the episode/show and in most cases (provided you haven't changed channels) it will be able to save the entire show from the beginning.
Little things like this continue to amaze me - and my boys (10 and 14). The other day my 10 year old said Dad - quick! ...Darn you missed the flaming circles! :( He was watching the Olympics on NBCHD. I quickly hit rewind and saw what he was talking about - he was digging it. I got the standard one word approval - Cool!

Another cool thing is that Saturday mornings we can watch movies together in Hi-Def. I always map out the week in my DVR on Monday so I have some good stuff when I get my boys on the weekends. Nothing like kicking back on the couch and watching a good flick with your kids. Last Saturday morning I watched Rudyard Kipling's Jungle Book with my 10 year old (it was the non-animated version but my older boy opted for time on my Power Mac G5 instead of joining us for this one) :)

The SA8000HD has created more opportunities for quality time at my house :overclap:

[mfabien]

Gromit,

Read my previous message at http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showpost.php?p=68428&postcount=202

As stated before, Scientific Atlanta did confirm that my lost of the picture the first time it was shown on CBSHD (months ago) was because my DVI was not activated.

Tomorrow Never Dies is one of the very few movies (if not the first one) coded for HDCP and those of us with a DVR require a functional DVI / HDCP connection to record it for a time period more than required for time shifting.

I can assure you that I'm familiar with my SA8000HD. But I'm also aware of the need to have DVI or HDMI once HDCP encryption gets going.

As for the red line, please note that I had scheduled the recording of the movie. I did not decide to record after say one hour of showing. Once again, I have the ENTIRE movie saved on my HDD...from the first to the last minute.

[mfabien]

So, do I take it that nobody else scheduled to record "Tomorrow Never Dies" for last night's showing?

[gromit]

I apologize for having misunderstood the situation. I didn't notice anything strange when I watched part of that same broadcast. I'll look into it further and see if I can duplicate the situation the next time the opportunity arises.

[mfabien]

Gromit,

The thing is DVR's have yet to have their DVI activated both in the US or in Canada. Other STB's have an active DVI, such as the SA3500HD, but then these terminals cannot record so the HDCP makes hardly a difference.

The rumor is that DVR's will get their DVI activated sometime in September or October. Of all movies featured on all major networks that I have scheduled recordings, only "Tomorrow Never Dies" has been coded for HDCP. Therefore, is that movie a test...now performed twice over some 3 month period? My sense is that the movie industry as yet to code their digital copies for the TV industry but are about to start perhaps next month (and I would say that includes the PPV movies because I had no trouble recording one).

I believe Tomorrow Never Dies was coded as a "Never copy" or "Copy Once" which, in the case of a DVR, using an HDCP DVI, would have only an impact of establishing whether that movie could then be archived or not in another device (or transmitted or not to a TV without DVI). But, without a DVI at a STB/DVR, then the "Never Copy" flag would result in what it did in the first showing and that is disappear from the list of recordings after an hour of it's ending, leaving just enough time for "time shifting". Please understand I'm surmising here but that's the logic I think applies.

So if "Tomorrow Never Dies" was a test for DVI/HDCP, it works yes and no:
Yes = Even as a scheduled recording in a DVR, it goes away by causing the data to erase itself within a set time limit (my guess is one hour).
NO = If one takes the time to view the movie while it is showing live and being recorded, if you stop and save the movie recording before the end of the scheduled "end time", you get to keep the entire recording for as long as any other recordings you have programmed. Wonder if the HDCP people know this?

The above reflex only my personal opinion of what has taken place and may not be construed as an official statement of facts by either myself or by others.

[51gator50]

anyone know how i can overide this boxes ability to change picture size and use picture size with my tv's remote. i like my toshiba's theater wide 1 size compared to this boxes stretch picture. thanks

[mfabien]

For SD picture on an HD channel, select Theatre Wide 3 with the Toshiba remote. For an SD channel, press "Settings" once and scroll down to Picture Format and select 480i. Once done, if you don't already have Theatre Wide 1, make that selection with the Toshiba remote and it will remain in memory for 480i.

[Splicer]

If that is not what you were looking for, you may want to switch the output of the STB to 480i or 480p to be able to change the aspect ratio using the tV remote when viewing HD channels from the box. At least that is the only way I can change my TV ratios while viewing HD from my cable box...

[51gator50]

when i go to settings and then picture format it gives me options-fixed,pass-through,upconvert 1 @ 2. how do i get it to 480i,480p,etc.?

[57U]

You are indeed lucky to have these options. We're all still waiting for them. See the FAQ on SA STBs. Near the bottom are tips for setting up the box if you have these options available (use the instructions for the SA3250HD if you have these options available). Most people with the SA8000HD don't yet have this capability.

In the Setup Wizard you need to tell the STB which modes you want to work with, then you can select Passthrough or upconvert1. This will allow you to stretch SD, but not HD using the TV.

[51gator50]

i just got this box and so far not feeling so lucky. i had the motorola 6208 and am having a hard time getting use to this box. i have tried the advanced setup but can't switch between 480p,i, to 1080i. i don't even know what this means and if i can do that. also i don't have a clue as to what passthrough and upconvert 1 and 2 will do. right now i'm confused!

[57U]

First you have to run the setup wizard to tell your STB which modes your TV can accept.

Then you need to decide how you want to watch these modes.

Fixed means everything is sent out as 1080i (if 1080i is enabled).

Passthrough means that the incoming signal is sent out to the TV - ie 480i sent as 480i, 480P as 480P, 1080i as 1080i and 720P (if enabled) as 720P.

Upconvert 1 converts your 480i signal to 480P (if enabled). 1080i still goes out as 1080i.

I believe upconvert2 converts signals to 720P if enabled (can't remember because I don't use it.)

If you don't know what something in the menu does, go to that menu item and click "info". Your STB should tell you what that does.

Then you can "get fancy" by deleting some of the modes in the wizard (like 720P) if you don't want to "pass through" 720P because some TVs take several seconds to switch between 720P and 1080i.

[51gator50]

what is best to use to watch sd. in setup wizard 720p doesn't appear i guess because tv doesn't do this. thanks.

[57U]

Try 480i (passthrough) or 480P (upconvert1). It'll depend on your TV.

[Crazy Ivan]

How do you access Advanced Settings on SA8000HD and how do you check SARA version?

[51gator50]

for the advanced setting have your tv on turn off the sa8000hd and press both the guide and info button until the screen comes up that ask you if you see this screen in color. just follow the directions and it will lead you to the advanced setting screen. will get back to you to check sara version. as for the sara version,57u has put up under hdtv faq,then tips for sa stb how to get into the diagnostic screen that will show you what software you have along with alot of other information. hope this helps.

[57U]

It's not really an "advanced settings". It's more like a "diagnostics" set of screens, but as you say, see the FAQ on "Tips for SA STBs".

If you're new to the SA8000HD, read the first post in this thread.

[51gator50]

57u or anyone else who would like to tackle this, i have tried the things you have suggested about changing picture size because if i have it on fixed 1080i it won't let me use tv remote to go to theater wide 1 which i like. when i use upconvert1/2 and passthrough it takes along time, sometimes it does nothing, when i change the channel. any suggestions would be great. don't mind it being in 1080i i just don't like the chubby people. i didn't have this problem with the motorola 6208 but i wanted dvr and am not afraid of new stuff and this is stbdvr that twc is going with. help me please to make people appear as they should!

[mfabien]

51gator50,

By any chance, area you aware of the "#" button on your remote (just under 9)? You may have pressed this by accident...

The first time that key is pressed, it gives you a "Stretch" mode and the second time it's a "Zoom" effect. And one more time and you get back the "Normal" screen. You may have pressed this key by accident in which case you are in Stretch mode.

[51gator50]

yeah i know about that button. i have it set to stretch because on normal it gives side bars and zoom is, well, zoom. when i'm not in 1080i it will let my tv remote change picture size but then it takes an unacceptable amount of time for channels to come in.

[mfabien]

Here's what I recommend you try:

1. On an HD channel, for an HD program you get the 16:9 aspect, so there's no problem;
2. On an HD channel, but for a non HD program, you get the side bars. To correct that use Theater Wide 3 from your TV remote.
3. For an SD channel using the Component Input, change your picture format to 480i instead of 480p. With your TV remote, select Theater Wide 1. This will be memorized and be done automatically in the future.

Note: If there is still a problem with a non HD program selection from an HD channel, in the of ABC, CBS and NBC you can change channel to the non HD channel for that particular network and with the 480i picture format, you will have no trouble using TW 1.

Toshibas are very good interlacing 480.

[51gator50]

what do you have your picture format set at on the stb-fixed, upconvert1/2, or passthrough?

[57U]

51gator50, we don't have those features available yet in Canada on the SA8000HD. We have to manually select the output. I choose 1080i for HD and 480P for SD, mfabien uses 480i for SD.

On my SA3250HD, I do have those features and I use "upconvert1". mfabien would probably use passthrough since he prefers to watch 480i instead of 480p.

[51gator50]

thanks 57u. on your 2 sa stb's do they bring in the channels pretty quickly. when i use anything other then fixed it takes, like, what seems like an eternity for the channels to come in because of the box/tv changing the formats.

[57U]

1. If the TV changes formats, it can take perhaps 5-10 seconds. If you read the FAQ, I suggest that you "delete" a couple of formats (in the wizard) so that you only see the delay when changing from SD to HD (enable only 480i and 1080i for example).

2. You've got a DVR, no need to surf any more. I record everything before I watch it. Therefore no delays in changing channels because no channels are changed...

3. When changing channels on the STB it takes about a second for the analogues and perhaps 2 seconds for the digitals and HD, provided the TV doesn't have to change formats.

[51gator50]

will try this thanks.

[51gator50]

one other question. is there a way to get the remote to change the channels faster then punching in a number then hitting select. i'm talking about when you are changing channels in same mode, say 480i. on the motorola box there was a setting that you used so when you punched a channel number in it quickly changed the channel without you needing to hit enter or any other button.thanks

[mfabien]

I have never been required to press the "Select" button after inputting a channel number...and the channel is fast and seamless even from an HD channel to an SD channel.

I have the SARA software and keep that in mind, if you have Passport software. In the latter case, there is a thread in this folder for SA8000HD with Passport.

[gparris]

In Milwaukeeland, our cable company runs Passport and everytime they think they have to wack your cable box for an upgrade, or in my case last night, accidentally, the factory defaults kick in. This means the stretch feature you set gets stuck in sidebar mode for 16:9. It took 10 minutes of battling with the HD DVR and a CSR from TWC to get it back so the sidebars disappeared. I even had it on an analogue channel, so she said to switch to lower numbered channel and said that channel usually works...what kind of s-- software is TWC cable using?
I am thankful I didn't have to buy these HD DVRs like the some of you did, though, because what with problem and the picture pixelatings, digital "taring" and the like, it would not be worth the price.
If TWC doesn't get its act together by the time the HD Tivos drop in price, and more HD channels appear on Directv, including locals (maybe)...I dumping cable altogether!

[Dave_Cook]

How do I change the background color from gray to black? I remember doing this once, but the gray is back. IMHO black is better for watching 4:3 shows withouth stretching...

Thanks in advance!

[summerfun]

How do I change the background color from gray to black? I remember doing this once, but the gray is back. IMHO black is better for watching 4:3 shows withouth stretching...

Thanks in advance!
I asked the same question when we went to this new DVR. My old Pioneer HD STB had black bars and now I had grey and did not like them.

I was told that at this time, it cannot be switched.

[51gator50]

for some reason today my pip isn't working. anyone know why this might be?

[57U]

Grey/black may depend on your firmware. It should be in the settings somewhere - either single click or double click the settings and scroll through them.

No idea why PIP wouldn't be working. Try rebooting the STB.

[summerfun]

It must be firmware issue. It is NOT in the settings. I spoke directly to the engineer at TWC and he said it is not possible to change at this time.

[poley]

The bars on the 4:3 broadcasts can be changed. I changed mine last night. Press the settings button twice then nose around thru this menu(I am not for sure what its labeled as), you can even change the color scheme of your menu screens.

[goober22]

The bars on the 4:3 broadcasts can be changed. I changed mine last night. Press the settings button twice then nose around thru this menu(I am not for sure what its labeled as), you can even change the color scheme of your menu screens.

While this is true, some providers modify the software and eliminate/hide some settings. My provider did not have the color schemes available but the competition did. I called and inquired about it and they did a software update 2 days later that added the color scheme options. Just an FYI.

[granger]

My SA8000HD is going to be installed today by Adelphia. Does anyone know if the DVI output is active for the adelphia box?

I have a Toshiba 34HFX84 which has 2 HDMI inputs, 2 Component inputs and 2 s-video ins. Currently I have my DVD player and my PS2 ruinning into the component ins. If the DVI output is not active (it is my understanding that there is a converter for DVI/HDMI) I have to remove either my PS2 or the DVD player and hook it into s-video which I would prefer not to do as I just purchased the monster ps2 cables and I think the DVD player is better served running though RGBs.

To summarize :wow:

Is the DVI output active on the adelphia SA8000HD?

Can DVI be converted to use my HDMI inputs?

If no to either of the above, how would you suggest I wire my PS2 and DVD player?

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

-Granger

[summerfun]

The bars on the 4:3 broadcasts can be changed. I changed mine last night. Press the settings button twice then nose around thru this menu(I am not for sure what its labeled as), you can even change the color scheme of your menu screens.
Are you talking about the user menu from the remote control or the service menu for the techs to use?

[poley]

The user menu from the remote. Double click it and you should have a list of different things you can change.

[57U]

DVI may not yet be active, but we hear it's coming soon to many cable systems. Yes there are DVI/HDMI cables available.

[jruhnke]

...
But, without a DVI at a STB/DVR, then the "Never Copy" flag would result in what it did in the first showing and that is disappear from the list of recordings after an hour of it's ending, leaving just enough time for "time shifting". Please understand I'm surmising here but that's the logic I think applies.

So if "Tomorrow Never Dies" was a test for DVI/HDCP, it works yes and no:
Yes = Even as a scheduled recording in a DVR, it goes away by causing the data to erase itself within a set time limit (my guess is one hour).
NO = If one takes the time to view the movie while it is showing live and being recorded, if you stop and save the movie recording before the end of the scheduled "end time", you get to keep the entire recording for as long as any other recordings you have programmed. Wonder if the HDCP people know this?I can clear up one item here. I don't know anything about how the DHCP affects how long a copy can be kept, but the timeshift behavior you saw is absolutely normal for the 8000HD using SARA software. For whatever reason, Sci-Atlanta in their infinite wisdom decided "Thou shalt not have more than 1 hour of timeshift buffer, nor shall that buffer be kept if the channel is changed."

In other words, you can never rewind more than an hour into the past when timeshifting, because the box doesn't retain that information in the timeshift buffer. Strangely enough, even if you scheduled the program for recording, and have been recording it from the beginning, once you get beyond 1 hour into the program, the beginning of it is not available until after the entire recording is complete. Apparently, the scheduled recording file on the hard drive is distinct from the timeshift buffer, and is not accessible for viewing until the box has finished writiing to it.

The timeshift buffer also gets emptied every time you change the channel. So if you're watching a time-shifted program, and accidentally hit the channel up or down button, then *POOF!*, your timeshift buffer is wiped out, and you can't get back to where you were before you bumped the remote.

My personal wish list so far with this box:

1) A skip-forward-30-seconds feature, to help jump past commercials
2) A skip-to-time-x:xx feature to jump to a specific point in a recorded program (I already have one 4-hr program stored that I've grown frustrated having to spend 5 minutes fast-forwarding through to the halfway point)
3) The ability to begin playback of a program that is still being recorded
4) A variable-length timeshift buffer, whose size can be specified in the Settings
5) Do not erase the timeshift buffer if the channel is changed. (Who cares that when I rewind, part of a program from another channel will be mixed in there? If a buddy shows up 20 min after the big game ended, and wants to know how the last five minutes played out, I should still be able to rewind back to the game and show it to him, even if I've been watching another game on a different channel in the meantime. And then I should be able to fast-forward right back up to where I left off from the game I was watching when he walked in, so I don't miss anything!)

BTW, all of these features are available with my $50 Creative Digital VCR TV Tuner that I have been using in my PC for almost three years. If that tuner could get digital and HD cable channels, I'd not be spending the money for this 8000HD box, but unfortunately it only has an analog tuner.

Jim

[57U]

I can do item 3 with my SA8000HD (go to the list and select the programme), only problem is, as soon as the recording ends, you get "kicked out" to live TV and you have to FF or REW to where you were. I therefore almost never watch something as it's still being recorded....

I like item 5.

Item 2 could be accomplished with say a 'skip 10 minute' feature - this should keep the advertizers happy. Or if you could "grab" the "pointer" in your playback (the pointer you see when you hit FF) and simply "take it" to where you want to watch.

You will likely not get item 1. The cable companies "gave this away" in their negotiations with MPAA et al, in order to get the DVR to market.

[mfabien]

To skip commercials my system is to activate FF (fastest mode, which you get by pressing 3 times the FF key) and a fast mental count of 12 at the start of a program. Towards the end (when time comes to learn of the plot !) period for commercials gets longer, so I fast count to 16.

For Football, for time outs I can skip commercials with a fast count of 3.

[jruhnke]

Item 2 could be accomplished with say a 'skip 10 minute' feature - this should keep the advertizers happy. Or if you could "grab" the "pointer" in your playback (the pointer you see when you hit FF) and simply "take it" to where you want to watch.

You will likely not get item 1. The cable companies "gave this away" in their negotiations with MPAA et al, in order to get the DVR to market.
I could maybe be happy with a "click-and-drag" FF solution like you mention, but I think that would always be more cumbersome with a typical remote control than it would be with a mouse, because you can't actually "drag" the pointer--it'll always be something like what we have today, where you push a button to change the speed at which the pointer moves. If that's all we're gonna get, then I'd prefer just adding a couple more "steps" to the current FF/REW "speeds" (i.e., hit FF four or five times to go 60x or 200x or something).

As for the commercial skip--yeah, you're probably right. But it's amazing to me that so many DVD players have "hidden" Macrovision defeat and Region Code defeats built into the firmware, yet we can't get even a "hidden" 30-sec skip feature. I guess the difference is that DVD player (and PC tuner card) manufacturers make their profit on the sale of the box only, so you and I are their unambiguous customer, and they know we like those sorts of features.

In the case of the 8000HD, the cable co. is the real customer, so they get to define the feature set. Since part of the cable co's profit comes from local commercial advertisement marketing, and part from subscriber fees, the cable co. walks the fine line between satisfying advertisers and satisfying subscribers to maximize revenue from each. In a sense, we both get hosed: Advertisers probably don't like *any* ability to fast forward through commercials; subscribers wish the ability was even easier.

Jim