Rear Proj. BETTER than LCD!

[samnjoc]

Rear projection tv's look better than LCD tv's!!

I'll admit right now that I am biased somewhat due to the fact that I bought a 57" rear-projection tv, but after having watched my friend's 50" Sony Grand Wega LCD tv, there's simply no comparison!

Here's what I noticed:

1. The LCD picture never looked "captivating" to me. I never had that transfixed feeling while watching it.
2. The picture always looked "pixelated". This drove me crazy. It seemed like every so often there were noticeable pixels everywhere. Even when a strong HD signal was being broadcast.
3. The screen glass looked like it was textured or something. It looked as if I was looking at the picture through a patio screen. Horribly annoying!

Aside from the brightness, viewing angle, etc. differences in LCD vs. RP, I think the picture quality of RP wins hands down! I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just a little surprised.
Does anybody have anything to offer? Are these things I'm noticing exclusive to Sony LCD's? Am I totally crazy and blinded by my bias???

By the way, my friend and I both have identical cable service in the same county (Comcast-we were viewing the 2 INHD channels).

-Sam

Hitachi 57S700
Yamaha RX-V1400

[raff]

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just a little surprised.



There really should be no arguments or surprise on this post. The fact is that no current technology provides the quality of picture that CRT provides. The new stuff just isn't completely there... yet...

[57U]

Agreed, it's hard to beat a properly calibrated CRT-based HDTV. There are other advantages that the LCDs & DLPs have - see the FAQ on "Types of HDTV."

Each person needs to decide what is most/more important to them.

[samnjoc]

Okay, but......

Your reply insinuates that CRT is hands-down a superior picture quality and that its superiority is a known and accepted fact by those on this forum.
I agree with your assertion after having now seen an LCD up close, but I can't ever remember reading anyone saying that CRT has a superior picture quality.

I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to get 57U to put on his "HDTV Advantages & Disadvantages" post in the FAQ that the CRT based TV's have a superior picture quality!

I only bring this up because I was seriously considering purchasing an LCD based on all the incredible information on this site. Had I known that the CRT looks so much better, I wouldn't have even considered the LCD. I know that all the differences between the two have been discussed such as better black levels, etc. but has anyone claimed that CRT is a better picture and just looks better?

Just curious.

-Sam

[samnjoc]

57U,

I totally agree "to each his own" and that everybody's tastes are different.
Your post on the types of HDTV's is fantastic. It is a clear and concise breakdown of all the different types and it helped me tremendously, but.....

I (and probably many more) really like to get your "opinion" on what your personal tastes and preferences are because you are so informed. I know it is best for you to remain objective, but could you not inject some of your own personal likes and dislikes into your factual posts?

As I said before I can't remember ever reading anything on this site stating that the CRT picture is SUPERIOR. Your statement "hard to beat" sounds like a watered down way of saying that: the CRT picture kicks _ss.

Maybe you could say in your FAQ post: "Some have said that the CRT is a far superior pic...." I'll stop rambling. I'm just glad I bought a CRT.

-Sam

[mikehbkwm]

a CRT based RP can have a overall better PQ then DLP and LCD or LCoS butttt heres the catch just like 57u stated there are advantages to LCD and DLP especially with the fact that with DLP you cant burn in the image which is a pretty big deal to some people.... but your right on just image quality i agree with you that a properly setup CRT RP can look the best....

[samnjoc]

Yes, picture quality only is what I'm talking about.
Forget the advantages and disadvantages.

Mike,

"can look the best"

Did you purposefully use the word "can" because you are a moderator and try to remain objective?

[max]

"can look the best"

Did you purposefully use the word "can" because you are a moderator and try to remain objective?


I think the mods chose the word "CAN" because not everybody calibrates their set, and they simply take it out of the box and plug it in. So even though it can look better, not everyone makes it that way.

Also I have only started to notice some pixelation from recorded HD content on my LCD, other than that I haven't really noticed what you mean... For a dedicated HT room a "CRT" may be the way to go because you can control the lighting and so on, but in a living room or any other place you cant control it I would definitly go for the LCD. Also everyone in the house gets an amazing PQ from an RP LCD, where as a CRT only provides the main viewer with a clean and bright picture. The people watching from the sides get shafted if you ask me...

MAX,

[mfabien]

...Also everyone in the house gets an amazing PQ from an RP LCD, where as a CRT only provides the main viewer with a clean and bright picture. The people watching from the sides get shafted if you ask me...

MAX,

Sorry, but I disagree. There are no distortion or reduction of brightness on side view.

However, if one stands up rather than remain in a sitting position (whether in front or on the side), then brightness is reduced considerably.

[max]

well on the Sony CRT that I own, watching from the sides is a much less bright of a picture than watching from the front.

MAX,

[mikehbkwm]

samnjoc do you not see what I own... hmmmm.... anyway Max basically stated it perfectly.... and know if you want someone who is always objective you came to the wrong person...

[brector]

I am going to disagree - but I will start by saying I have never seen a rptv properly calibrated.

My friends DLP samsung looks better than ANY big screen tv I have ever seen. My neighbor has a rptv and it looks like crap compared to my friends DLP. Besides - WHEN the technology catches up - LCD will be better than CRT's.

[mikehbkwm]

i give up.... :whistle:

[brector]

i give up.... :whistle:

I hope that's not directed at me - I was just giving my opinion on the few HD sets I have seen. :)

[max]

back to the beginning of the thread now, every technology has it's pros and cons. It's hard to say which is best because everyone has different needs. I guess we can leave it at that.

And in my opinion, the best technology is the one that makes you happiest and suits your needs. If your happy then I am happy for you.

MAX,

[samnjoc]

Mike,

Continue not always being objective!
It's what makes this site great!

Here's a summary:

My TV is BEST because it's the one I bought and I'm thrilled with it.
Max is completely correct.

I just feel bad for all you crappy LCD owners. HA, HA. Just kidding! :D

-Sam

[Splicer]

I gotta admit...Since I removed the protective 'glare' screen from my Toshiba 51" CRT RPTV, I can honestly say that (my opinion of course) no plasma set (the most expensive) that I have seen can match my picture on HD/DVD viewing. The CRT RP seem to add the '3rd dimension' to programming, making one thing one could almost reach right into the show and touch something.

The moderater probably used the word 'can' simply because most CRT's are not properly set up and that potential greatness is yet untapped. :smokin:

[siko8]

i have a jvc48inch rptv that has been isf cailabrated and it looks ten times better then LCD or DLP . and it cost less in the long run my tv retails for $1300 pluse the isf cailabration which i payed $550 for.and thats way cheaper than then the smallest lcd or dlp's :rockon: on the market

[summerfun]

The problem here is too many people "exaggerate" their claims and make wild statements like "ten times better" or beats it "hands down". Statements like that just inflame otherwise normal people. You won't see your moderators make claims like that. They will say it "can" be better, which is a very fare statement. I have seen CRTs that are better than LCDs and LCDs that are better than CRTs.

The fact is, all these sets look very good. I have had all three sets in HD, LCD RPTV, CRT RPTV and a CRT TV and currently still have two as seen in my sig line. They all look great and each has advantages and disadvantages, even in PQ. None of them are "ten times better" than another.

If one of these sets does look really bad, something is wrong and should be looked into, none of them should ever look bad.

Samnjoc,

Your friend that has the problems with his 50" Grand Wega needs to get his cable company out, he has a problem there. I never had anything like you mentioned with my 60" Grand Wega, the pictures is always fantastic. I did have those kind of issuess with my 30" HDTV and it turned out to be a bad cable run to the bedroom.

[siko8]

summerfun maybe 10times better is not good wording you are right that most hdtv's do look vary good. but to me i see the difference. my friend has 60inch waga xbr and he says that my rptv looks better. but you right that they have there differences. sorry man i just see it like it is :rockon:

[max]

Everyone has their own preference, mine was the LCD. If you read the Home Theater Magazine 10 TV shootout you'll see they placed every technology in the mix and came up with which TV's look best.

First Place was the - Toshiba CRT RPTV
Second place was the - Sony WE Grand Wega LCD
Third Place was the - Hitachi CRT RPTV
fourth was the - Sony CRT RPTV

So if you look by these stats it's not the technology that makes the better picture, it's the TV itself. 3 out 5 of the judges chose the LCD as favorite but in total points it lost to the Toshiba by a hair. Once again if you like your TV it's best.

MAX,

[Splicer]

hehehe...Toooooshiba :rockon: ! (and I never read/saw anything about this TV yet picked it out because I thought it had the best picture. Seems as if I am not the only one :cool: ! :smokin:

[namechamps]

All display types got their pros and cons. One thing to remember digital systems (LCD, DLP, LCOS) are very new. CRT is tried and true but it is on it's way out. CRT may be the best or the "benchmark" that other sets are measured against but it is not going to get any better . The 2008 Toshiba CRT model will not be look much better (PQ) than the current Toshiba CRT model. CRT require calibration for best PQ, and many consumers are turned off by that. CRT is also has the biggest footprint, and it really can't be shrunk any more or PQ suffers. So while CRT is very good right now it is not going to get much better, or cheaper.

On the other hand LCD and LCOS will begin to benefit from economies of scale over next decade. As size of transistors is reduced, the size of pixels can be increased and the panel cost goes down. The drive transistors are what creates the "screen door" effect in an LCD or LCOS panel. As the pixels get larger and the drive transitors get smaller the effect disapears. Intel believes it can drive down cost of an LCOS panel from $180 to $30. This would allow for 1080P widesceen RPTV at less than $1000.

So while you may love CRT amd believe it is the best, keep an open mind. The digital world moves quickly and in two or three years you may want to trade in that "analog" CRT for an all digital lcos or LCD set.

[max]

hehehe...Toooooshiba :rockon: ! (and I never read/saw anything about this TV yet picked it out because I thought it had the best picture. Seems as if I am not the only one :cool: ! :smokin:

Also dont get to ahead of yourself, The magazine also states the Pros and cons. They said the Toshiba is better if you have a dedicated HT room with controlled lighting but the Sony LCD was the better all around performer.

At the end of day one the Sony LCD was the winner in terms of picture quality, but at the end of day 2 the Toshiba won after being properly callibrated by a professional. Since maybe 1 in 25 customers pay the extra money to have their set tuned by a Pro the LCD sets may be the way for them to go.

Quick question, Did you pay the extra $500 bucks to have your set tuned by a Pro? or are you like most people that do it yourself?

Remember 3 out 5 Judges chose the LCD because most homes dont have controlled lighting or rooms specifically for HT. Also the smaller depth of LCD TV's also let you carry a larger TV into the basement without having to break it into pieces first.

Everything has it's up's and down's, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

CRT Pros:
-excellent color
-excellent contrast
-Cheaper

CRT Cons:
-Very Big and Heavy "takes up alot of room"
-Limited viewing position
-Not the greatest in Daylight
-needs convergance and possible ISF to look it's best
-possible Burn in of static images

LCD Pros:
-excellent color
-very bright
-great viewing position
-replaceable bulbs for like new performance
-no Convergance required
-no burn in "great for video games"
-Thinner, Lighter & typically "Sexier"
-Can fit where a CRT RPTV cant
-no possible magnetic interferance

LCD Cons:
-Contrast Ratio
-Requires a seperate stand
-more expensive

These are not all of the pros and cons, and I'm sure others can add to my list. But for me LCD was the best way to go, for you and others it may not be. But as long as we all love our purchase the who cares right!

MAX...

[Splicer]

I couldn't agree more MAX :D . But should you find yourself around my neck of the woods, feel free to contact me and let me invite you to view my set-up. I actually do not have a dedicated room, in contrast, I am not allowed to make it as it should be.

In my environment the Toshiiiiiba is in a corner. That is where my 32" was as well. When ANY TV is placed in such a way, it is fully viewable from any angle at eye level. As I type this, I am facing the TV and I am on the same left wall as the TV and can see it perfectly well as I could with my 32" tube set. There really is no bad viewing angle if it is setup this way :D .

And I have been considering an ISF calibration, but I am still trying to determine if the cost is really justified or not + I really don't have the money as of this moment. I must admit if I did have the money, I would most likely try it but only after I do everything I can myself that he would charge me extra to do. I still have a reddish glow in dark scenes that simply refuses to go away. Removing the glare screen essentially only made seeing the glow more tolerable, it did not help with the effect at all. Now I want to put in that duotwinee whatever stuff in and see if that helps eliminate the red. I have come to the conclusion if this does not rectify the sitchya-tion, I think I will call a Toshiba guy out and see if maybe the red gun if something is wrong there. I just am curious if the TV will still be under warranty after I put the black stuff in and removed the protective screen. I foolishly bought the Digital Video Essentials (I have the only review written for this DVD on epinions.com) but see nothing more than glorified color bars that are already found on THX optimized DVDs. I did find it somewhat useful in the gray scale area but that was pretty much it. other than the gray scale slight changes, how I set up the rest looked balls on from when I just used my eye for setting the user options. Gotta remember, I've been in cable for a very long time and pretty much know what a TV is supposed to look like. Most of the guys that are old timers like me in this biz have the same eye. Not tooting my horn here it is just i have never had a complaint from anyone about any TV I have set up.

You are 110% correct. It is only the best if it is the best to you :D . :smokin:

P.S...sorry for rambling there :whistle: ...

[max]

I am glad we agree, How does your audio sound with your TV in the corner?

I have been told that placing a TV in the corner can have quite an effect on the way the audio sounds after the speakers are configured to match the televisions placement.

If I am ever in your neck of the woods I would love to see your setup, and as a show of gratitude the same offer goes out to you. If you are ever in Ottawa feel free to come have a "look see".

MAX,

[Splicer]

Thanks for the invite 'eh?! :canada: ...The sound is just fantastic to me. that pure 55 watts sounds like 155 watts!!! Seriously, the sound is fantastic :cheers: !!! This application is the ideal use for my BOSE 501 Series V floor standers. One faces out from one wall, the other faces out from the other wall. Bose is true to there name, and their 'Stereo Everywhere' phrase is dead on :rockon: . The ONLY way for me to watch a DVD dude. Even when i get a hair and pull my recliner right in front of the TV, the sound is magnificent :rockon: !!! *NOTE* I do not use the TV's internal speakers. All audio comes from the Onkyo A/V receiver. I do have the variable audio outs connected to the Onkyo as an option for using the SRS system built in the TV. I generally only use the Coaxial input from the cable box, but what the hell. I paid for the SRS and might as well use it ocassionally... :smokin:

[spaceman_spiff]

They said the Toshiba is better if you have a dedicated HT room with controlled lighting but the Sony LCD was the better all around performer.
Remember 3 out 5 Judges chose the LCD because most homes dont have controlled lighting or rooms specifically for HT.

Did the magazine say why CRT based RPTVs are not good in average lighting conditions compared to LCDs ? I am trying to find out what that was based on. Was it based on brightness comparison or something else ?

[max]

I think what they meant was "Daylight", If you cant control daylight in the TV room, during the day it may look faded.

MAX,

[gparris]

:cheers: QUOTE:

Everything has it's up's and down's, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

CRT Pros:
-excellent color
-excellent contrast
-Cheaper

CRT Cons:
-Very Big and Heavy "takes up alot of room"
-Limited viewing position
-Not the greatest in Daylight
-needs convergance and possible ISF to look it's best
-possible Burn in of static images

LCD Pros:
-excellent color
-very bright
-great viewing position
-replaceable bulbs for like new performance
-no Convergance required
-no burn in "great for video games"
-Thinner, Lighter & typically "Sexier"
-Can fit where a CRT RPTV cant
-no possible magnetic interferance

LCD Cons:
-Contrast Ratio
-Requires a seperate stand
-more expensive

These are not all of the pros and cons, and I'm sure others can add to my list. But for me LCD was the best way to go, for you and others it may not be. But as long as we all love our purchase the who cares right!

MAX...[/QUOTE]

I use the CRT RPTV for its great color and contrast in my media/family room.
Personally found that the LCD great for people with smaller rooms or who liked the Pros about it.

My room is naturally dark and deep enough for the CRT RPTV to not stick way out and have screen reflections.
The cost-to-screen size is within budget.
My next set will be the cable-card Mits for the 2004-2005 model, a 73" or use the Cable card HD DVR coming out also if I don't decide to rent the box from the cable company for recording. At about $5K, I save the $2K I would have paid more for the Sony 70" and get less picture. :whistle:

See Mits new catalog website:http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/news/news_pdfs/MitsSpecSheets4-04.pdf


Both Pro and Cons are right on target, it just depends on where you need to put the set and where the light and viewing area is. :D

[57U]

Those Pros/cons are very similar to what's listed in the FAQ on "Types of HDTV", as stated very early in this thread.

[max]

57U, I just wrote what came to my head at the moment for the pros and cons. But I have taken a few pages from your book and have learned a considerable amount from you and some of the other mods, for this "I Thank You All" also I feel this forum has turned me into the HT Addict I am today and it is helping me progress to my dream system sometime in the near future. Now I feel I can recommend or purchase for myself a Home Theater to be proud of! and walk into each buying decision with a level head and knowledge of the product and technology that it stems from... For this I am greatful. Once again Thanks...

MAX,

[Splicer]

http://www.epinions.com/content_145299771012 :smokin: