View Full Version : Comcast HD v. DirecTV HD: Please Help.
Please help. I currently have DirecTV with TIVO. I also had basic cable with Comcast for the bedrooms, but now I have lost the extended basic channels; i.e., no more Disney channel in my kids rooms. I think the picture quality with DirecTV is lacking on my Hitachi 51" HDTV. My Zenith HD STB is awesome and I wouldnt change a thing for the STB HD. But now I am thinking about switching from DirecTV to Comcast, especially now that HD is offered in our area by Comcast. However, I have heard that the cable co. HD may not be true HD. SO here are my questions:
1. Will Comcast Digital provide a better picture on my Hitachi?
2. Is Comcast HD as good as OTA HD?
3. Should I just get two additional satelit boxes for the bedrooms and run additional RG6?
4. Should I watch less TV and stop being so damned concerned about getting the best picture.
In a perfect world, everything would be as clear as my STB HD, and my TIVO would record without any picture quality loss.
Thanks for your help.
gchasse
07-21-2004, 11:50 PM
Your question is one I have also pondered.
First, to answer number one, I have never heard anyone say that cable will look better than satellite, regardless of whether it is digital cable or non digital. When I was looking to buy my big screen, I asked the guy at Circuit City if I could get away with a Hitachi 51s500 10 feet away for the non HD channels, and he said not with cable, but with satellite it would be ok.
2. Not sure about that, but it could not be better, only worse. Call and ask the Comcast what they do with their HD signal? Maybe they will tell you.
3. This may be the best option.
4. If you are on this site, no way you should be less concerned.
Hope this helps a bit.
brector
07-22-2004, 12:58 AM
1. Will Comcast Digital provide a better picture on my Hitachi?
Digital is digital my friend. But remember - in my area - only channels 100+ are digital sent in digital, channels 2-99 are analog sent via digital.
2. Is Comcast HD as good as OTA HD?
Once again - HD is HD.
3. Should I just get two additional satelit boxes for the bedrooms and run additional RG6?
Sounds good.
4. Should I watch less TV and stop being so damned concerned about getting the best picture.
You wouldn't be here if that was the case :)
1. Digital is digital my friend.
2. Once again - HD is HD.
1. Some digital channels have much more compression than other digital channels. Digital is therefore not digital, it depends completely on the amount of compression utilized by the service provider. Sometimes cable is better, sometimes Satellite.
2. OTA HD and Cable HD can both utilize up to 19.4 Mb/sec. The OTA channels don't always utilize the full amount, but most cable companies "pass" whatever the OTA sends, therefore there "should" be no difference. Satellite actually has a bit more compression - typically to about 15 Mb/sec, but the difference is not usually noticeable.
brector
07-22-2004, 02:44 AM
1. Some digital channels have much more compression than other digital channels. Digital is therefore not digital, it depends completely on the amount of compression utilized by the service provider. Sometimes cable is better, sometimes Satellite.
2. OTA HD and Cable HD can both utilize up to 19.4 Mb/sec. They don't always. Satellite actually has a bit more compression - typically about 15 Mb/sec, but the difference is not usually noticeable.
I stand corrected. I know I liked using Directv better than digital cable for SD stuff because like I said above - channels 2-99 on cable are analog via digital where directv - all channels are digital.
So is more compression better or less?
More compression is worse.
Also, as an FYI, some Cable companies are providing an all digital package. Several Cable companies like Videotron and Cogeco in Canada already have this. Rogers is currently implementing an all-digital lineup (duplicating) the "typical" 2-99.
BTW, just because a channel is in the sequence 2-99, doesn't make it analogue, it can be either since the cable company can "map" any channel to any channel with the newer STBs.
I realize that some US cable companies may be a little behind in this digital implementation
More compression is worse.
Also, as an FYI, some Cable companies are providing an all digital package. Several Cable companies like Videotron and Cogeco in Canada already have this. Rogers is currently implementing an all-digital lineup (duplicating) the "typical" 2-99.
BTW, just because a channel is in the sequence 2-99, doesn't make it analogue, it can be either since the cable company can "map" any channel to any channel with the newer STBs.
I realize that some US cable companies may be a little behind in this digital implementation
But I swear I read somewhere that cable HD may be compressed and therefore offer less quality than OTA HD. I went over to a friends house to look at his Comcast HD. I was not as impressed as I am when I went back home and looked at my OTA HD decoded with my Zenith HD STB. Am I imagining things ???
And by the way....Comcast can say the picture is digital all they want...but the truth is that the picture quality on 2-99 is horrible and not much different than analod cable. My DirecTV picture is much better, although a bit fuzzy due to big screen.
Thanks for the comments. Glad to see I am not the only one obsessing over these issues.
Is it possible to recieve a better HD signal over the air with HD Antenna, as opposed to either satellite or cable ??? My Zenith HD STB is great. It seems like my friends Comcast HD picture is not as crisp. Doesn't have the "WOW" factor that my Zenith has.
tman701
07-22-2004, 04:37 PM
I have a similar problem. My analog channels from Comcast look grainier (sp) compared to my Dave picture. I havent tried Comcast HD or Dave HD yet. But i will be subscribing to DaveHD as soon as i finish moving into my new place.
Tman
I have a similar problem. My analog channels from Comcast look grainier (sp) compared to my Dave picture. I havent tried Comcast HD or Dave HD yet. But i will be subscribing to DaveHD as soon as i finish moving into my new place.
Tman
What is DaveHD ???
tman701
07-22-2004, 04:43 PM
What is DaveHD ???
Sorry, DirectTV HD
TMan
Ratman
07-22-2004, 04:45 PM
All areas are different with cable providers (how it's "fed" to them, how it's passed to you)
All areas are different with OTA (mulitcasting).
Satellite should be fairly consistent with broadcast/bandwidth. In this case, your weakest link is the STB, TV, and/or interconnect cables (and perhaps calibration).
In my area, OTA and digital (HD) cable are identical in picture quality.
As for analog over cable... the majority of folks complain
about picture quality using a digital TV. YMMV
Most Cable companies don't compress HD (including Comcast). They simply "pass" what they receive (typically up to the 19.4Mb/sec "allowed". If you see a difference between Comcast HD and OTA HD, it could be caused by several factors:
1. The STB
2. The signal that Comcast gets and how they get it.
3. The connection from the STB to the TV,
Etc.
mikehbkwm
07-22-2004, 05:13 PM
where do you guys get your info from... some cable co. in the US including the one i work for have a direct fiber feed from the local station to the headend so to answer your ? NO there would be no loss whatsoever for HD for locals....
Ratman
07-22-2004, 05:16 PM
where do you guys get your info from... some cable co. in the US including the one i work for have a direct fiber feed from the local station to the headend so to answer your ? NO there would be no loss whatsoever for HD for locals....
Is that not what we stated? :confused:
where do you guys get your info from... some cable co. in the US including the one i work for have a direct fiber feed from the local station to the headend so to answer your ? NO there would be no loss whatsoever for HD for locals....
Are you telling me that the difference between my firend's Comcast HD and my Zenith OTA STB HD is in my imagination, or a result of cheap cables, tv calibration, etc. I thought that cbale co's have the ability to downgrade bandwith, including on HD channels so that they can fit their entire lineup.
Ratman
07-22-2004, 05:34 PM
Any of the above.
It's area/provider dependant.
Unfortunately, the only way to be 100% sure in your particular case would be to:
a) call the cable provider and see how they provide/handle the signal(s) for HD locals.
b) take your TV/STB/cables and antenna to your friend's home and do some A/B comparisons. :)
mikehbkwm
07-22-2004, 05:37 PM
sorry Ratman didnt see anyone talk about a fiber feed so id thought id throw the good ol 2 cents in... Esh like i stated SOME cable co. have a fiber feed to their local affliliates not all.... i have no idea what the comast setup is in your area i was just stating generally... anyway cable co. do have the ability to compress digital or HD etc but again it depends on who your cable co. is and what they do with it..... where i live mostly all our digital channels in our lineup are mostly in a 8-12 ratio meaning we put 8-12 digital channels into one analog channel... now to you as the customer thats going to be good because we use a little less compression then some cable co. do meaning a little better PQ.... like 57 stated the less compression the better....
sorry Ratman didnt see anyone talk about a fiber feed so id thought id throw the good ol 2 cents in... Esh like i stated SOME cable co. have a fiber feed to their local affliliates not all.... i have no idea what the comast setup is in your area i was just stating generally... anyway cable co. do have the ability to compress digital or HD etc but again it depends on who your cable co. is and what they do with it..... where i live mostly all our digital channels in our lineup are mostly in a 8-12 ratio meaning we put 8-12 digital channels into one analog channel... now to you as the customer thats going to be good because we use a little less compression then some cable co. do meaning a little better PQ.... like 57 stated the less compression the better....
Thanks for the great info. Much more than I ever expected. While I have your attention.....is there any way to improve the fuzziness that occurs with DirecTV on my Hitachi 51". From what I have read, this is to be expected. I have calibrated the tv, and HD is awesome. But, from thime to time, especially with sports, the pq is a bit fuzzy (blurry). Sharpness is set to zero, contrast and all that has been adjusted. Any ideas would be great. You guys are great - never thought I would get so many responses.
mikehbkwm
07-22-2004, 05:49 PM
not much you could probably do i know for a fact that satellite compresses alot of their channels pretty heavily so thats probably the problem right there...... remember the bigger the tv the more its going to blow up the imperfections of SD.....
not much you could probably do i know for a fact that satellite compresses alot of their channels pretty heavily so thats probably the problem right there...... remember the bigger the tv the more its going to blow up the imperfections of SD.....
So if I have a choice between Comcast digital service and DirecTV, which is more likely to give me the best picture quality on by Hitachi 51". I currently have DirecTV w/ TIVO. I enjoy it, but from time to time, the pq bothers me, especially during sports. However, most of the time I am watching the OTA HD STB for major sporting event. However, Comcast is now offering a great deal to get back current sat customers. Thinking about switching because I now need to get sat boxes for the bedrooms, or change to cable.
Ratman
07-22-2004, 06:29 PM
Tough call from my seat.
You need to ask yourself... self?
a) what programming does DirecTV provide that is not available with cable?
b) do I need full programming on my secondary TV's?
c) do I want to pay an additional $5 per STB per month for the secondary TV's
d) can I get Tivo or a DVR from Comcast in my area?
e) do I need to subscribe to Comcast digital since I already get my locals via OTA?
Personally, I have analog cable connected to 4 sets. I get my digitals OTA. My TV has a built in DirecTV receiver and still can't justify ($$ wise) converting from cable to satellite.
If they would lose the $5 per STB charge... I might be tempted.
But the bottom line is... you're getting HD via OTA. Why pay a cable provider for what you already get for free? As for DirecTV, don't hold your breath for locals in HD.
IMO... if there's nothing on DirecTV that's holding you 'hostage' (Sunday Ticket), then you may be better off with Comcast analog TV service. (And... throw in the Internet access).
brector
07-22-2004, 07:11 PM
BTW, just because a channel is in the sequence 2-99, doesn't make it analogue, it can be either since the cable company can "map" any channel to any channel with the newer STBs.
I realize that some US cable companies may be a little behind in this digital implementation
I work for comcast (well - worked - tomorrow is my last day) and I know they send 2-99 as analog over digital. I had directv and when I got my free service I was kinda bummed out that. Plus I noticed on my old tv - SD.
Thanks for your help!
Ratman
07-22-2004, 07:19 PM
I work for comcast (well - worked - tomorrow is my last day) and I know they send 2-99 as analog over digital. I had directv and when I got my free service I was kinda bummed out that. Plus I noticed on my old tv - SD.
:headscrat
brector
07-22-2004, 07:37 PM
:headscrat
Basically they send their analog service (channels 2-99) over a digital signal w/ digital cable. So your true digital channels are only channels 100+. (In my area - East TN)
When I had directv all the channels are digital over digital so when I switched to comcast the channels that comcast carries that are analog over digital looked like crap compared to when I was with directv. Ex) Spike on directv was digital, Spike on comcast is analog over digital. And I noticed this on my old SD TV.
Ratman
07-22-2004, 08:08 PM
So... are you saying that your cable is 100% digital or that you subscribe to 'digital' service and your channels 2-99 are still analog? The 'analog over digital' is what's confusing me.
Normally:
All satellite is digital.
With 'digital' tier service from cable, channels 2-99 usually remain analog.
brector
07-22-2004, 08:16 PM
So... are you saying that your cable is 100% digital or that you subscribe to 'digital' service and your channels 2-99 are still analog? The 'analog over digital' is what's confusing me.
Normally:
All satellite is digital.
With 'digital' tier service from cable, channels 2-99 usually remain analog.
I have the "digital" package - but channels 2-99 are analog and 100+ are in digital. Exactly what you said in the last part.
MICKEY T
07-22-2004, 08:16 PM
esh
may i ask what internet provider do you have.?
I have decided to buy addl SAT Receivers and stay with DirecTV. Comcast definitely compresses channels 2-99, or they are analog being sent over digital. In any event. SAT is the answer for me. Now I need to get my but in the attic and run RG6.......sounds like fun huh !?!?!**
I have Bellsouth DSL and would not change same. Never have probs and service is reliable.
Thanks again everyone. Wish me luck in the attic.
Analogue cannot be compressed, therefore channels 2-99 on Comcast are uncompressed. Sometimes analogue channels can look bad due to low signal strength.
I'm not defending cable, I'm just trying to explain why analogue can sometimes look worse than digital. Remember that most of those digital channels that you're watching on satellite actually start out as analogue channels. Have fun in the attic.
Splicer
07-24-2004, 12:17 AM
Well dammit, 'I' am defending cable :D :argue2: ;) . It isn't analog over digital. It is digital over analog. Theres a difference there. :smokin:
Ratman
07-24-2004, 12:31 AM
... or it's analog over analog
digtal over digital
...or it originates as analog and gets converted and broadcasted digitally
...or it originates digitally and gets converted and broadcasted analog
It depends on your cable provider and the feeds and how they allocate bandwidth and transmission of the signal.
MICKEY T
07-24-2004, 12:31 AM
Splicer
you know where I was going don't you?
I wish he would have answered, ..or not
Splicer
07-24-2004, 01:31 AM
:headscrat Mickey? He said he had DSL I thought? :smokin:
hawks066
07-28-2004, 06:01 PM
ESH.. My uncle also has directv and complains all the time about sporting events PQ. I haven't been over to see what he's talking about, but it seems to be a common issue with directv digial sporting events I guess.
Most Cable companies, and I assume Sats as well, will not compress sports channels as much as "regular" channels, because sports have a lot of movement causing havoc with MPEG compression.
For example, cable companies may put 8-12 channels in each 6 MHz band, but typically keep to the lower number for sports stations or premium channels.
If someone knows how Sat handles the situation, feedback would be appreciated. I would assume in a similar manner, but you know about ASSuME.
hawks066
07-28-2004, 07:39 PM
Mickey, the cable company would trap the expanded channels. Broadband Internet still works with the trap on the line.
MICKEY T
07-28-2004, 07:47 PM
IT WORKS HERE! ............ but don't tell anyone
Splicer
07-28-2004, 09:41 PM
:whistle: . :smokin:
hawks066
07-28-2004, 10:14 PM
LOL.. Your secret is safe with me.. Where do you live again? HAHA
Well in a perfect world your line would be trapped.
one028
07-29-2004, 11:32 AM
acually i dont mind my comcast hd service. the analog channels are pretty good on my 57" hitachi ws. my brother has dish net on 46" sony ws and i can see all the compression of fast moving or dark programs. i had a problem with my analog channels being kinda grainy, but added an amp, and moved my line for my cable modem off the splitter for my tv, and it improved the overall analog channels greatly. im actually very satisified with the picture. i was going to switch to satalite, but it would actually cost me more money to hook up all my rooms (6 rooms) with satalite. plus i dont need an antenna on my roof to get the local hd channels, and i can get the pvr for 10 bucks a month. im paying 95 bucks for internet, digital cable with the hd package, hbo and showtime. the price is good until july 2005. then it goes up to 120 bucks a month. if i got satalite i would pay 60 bucks a month just for internet from comcast, then if i got the most basic dish network service such as ameridcan top 60 with locals 30 bucks a month, no premium channels, plus hd package $10/month, and 4 rooms installed (811, 301, 322(2 tuners), 10 bucks a month to use the 301 and 322, the price would be $50 month. so with internet and satalite service im looking at spending $110/month. thats only 60 channels with no premiums (hbo or showtime). maybe if comcast starts screwing around with their price i might switch to satalite, but its kinda hard to do it now.
raidbuck
07-30-2004, 04:03 PM
What HD do you watch? I watch mostly PBSHD, INHD1&2, DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, Comcast SportsnetHD and local Network HD sports. No antennas. So for me cable is the choice since they are all available, but INHD1&2 and PBS and local sports channels may not be on satellite.
You can do both. Keep Comcast for the locals and PBS in HD (usually about $15 per month) and get DirectTV for the others, but I don't know if that is cost-effective since you need to buy a DirectTV HD STB and rent a Comcast HD STB.
Aren't you glad that you have choices?
Rich N.
