View Full Version : Receivers - Dolby Digital vs "Digital Ready 5.1"
nleaf
10-09-2002, 10:56 AM
I have a technical question which requires clarification.
I don't have the money to buy a nice Home Theater Sound System so I'm going with entry level. I'm trying to decide between the Denon DHT 683XP, Kenwood HTB-544 and the Onkyo HT-S650.
I went to www.ecoustics.com and found a lot of the info I'm looking for, but in my product searches for receivers I got confused by the issue of "Surround Format" (Dolby Digital, Pro Logic II, and DTS) versus whether a receiver has "Digital Ready 5.1 Channel Inputs".
I understand surround format ... if it has Dolby Digital capability, it decodes signals of 5.1 format so we can hear movies/programs etc in digital 5.1 format. But how can a receiver which has Dolby Digital capability NOT have Digital Ready 5.1 channel inputs?? I mean, if it has digital coaxial and digital optical inputs and outputs and has Dolby digital 5.1 surround capability, how can the specs for the same receiver say it is NOT Digital Ready 5.1?
Here's ecoustics description of "Digital Ready 5.1 Channel Inputs":
"Refers to the inputs and circuits necessary for using all the audio encoded on a typical digital surround track. With 5.1-ready equipment, you'll be sure you can use your home theater system with different digital formats, such as digital television, radio, cable, and satellite, without having to buy more decoding components in the future."
Does this mean if I have a DVD player with Dolby Digital 5.1 capability, it doesn't matter if my audio receiver has Digital Ready 5.1 channel inputs or not? I guess I don't understand how a receiver can have Dolby Digital Surround format but NOT be Digital Ready 5.1 ....
kevinw
10-09-2002, 11:57 AM
Some older DVD players had 6 seperate outputs(5.1) for each channel. Now most DVD player have optical and or digital RCA output. This eliminates 6 seperate wires into the receiver.
To be on the safe side and be budget concious go with Kenwood. It is very good for the price and also has Pro-Logic II cababilty. I have the previous model(with out the PL2) and it does a very good job. Solid construction with a metal case, not plastic.
As KevinW stated the Dolby Digital Ready Reciever has 6 analog channel ins (one for each channel) where as a Dolby Digital Receiver has a Digital Decoder built into that can seperate the six channels coming in from a digital source ie coaxial digital or digital optical. The main reason some manufactures are still doing this is for upgradability purposes, namely if a new standard comes about you could still use your reciever by either buying a the source component with analog 6 channel out or so that you can use it with existing 6 channel solutions like EAX and the computer surround sound formats.
As for the recievers you mentioned above go with the Denon. It's a much higher quality system than the kenwood but still remains at an affordable price. That reciever has everything you could want on it as well including Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby ProLogic II, 5 Channel Stereo (a must) as well as wideband component in's and outs, s video's and fully assignable inputs.
kevinw
10-09-2002, 01:10 PM
As for the recievers you mentioned above go with the Denon. It's a much higher quality system
than the kenwood but still remains at an affordable price.
Lets not be fooled by the brand name equating to better quality or better product. Denon is a good product but try them out before buying for the name-ie Monster Cable-Terk
Onkyo- 100 watts per channel
Kenwood -100 watts per channel
Denon 80 watts per channel
Onkyo Sub -110 watts 8 inch speaker
Kenwood Sub- 100 watts 8 inch speaker
Denon Sub 65 watts 6 inch speaker
One item most people wish they had on their receiver, if they don't get it, is "auto sensing" of the audio signal (auto switching between digital and analogue inputs).
If you don't have this, and get audio signals in analogue and digital format, you will go crazy with the constant switching required. Imagine switching back and forth between two TV stations - one digital, the other analogue without it. Or switching between any two different sources.
You can see my receiver recommendation in my signature, but any of major good brands will do the job.
Wideband component switching is also a good feature to have if you are setting up a home theatre. The more inputs the better - only one output is usually supplied..
Don't worry too much about the watts/ch. Most listening is done at less than 1 watt.
The remote will be used a lot. Make sure you like it - does it have backlighting, is it programmable, does it feel good, etc.
You may eventually get an "all in one" remote, but most people don't.
Bass management can be an issue and ease of setup is an issue for the technophobe. (balancing speakers, etc)
Read every review you can get your hands on - especially once you think you've decided. The one thing you didn't get can be very irritating. Always wait at least a few days after making your decision to "reflect".
nleaf
10-09-2002, 01:55 PM
Yes, I guess I should throw the Yamaha YHT-18 into the mix ... I particularly like the fact that the connectors on this system use binding posts.
One great thing about the Denon receiver are the number of outputs/inputs; 8 audio inputs, 4 audio outputs, 9 video inputs, 4 video outputs, 1 Digital Coaxial/3 Digital Optical Inputs, 1 Digital optical ouput, 3 S-Video inputs and 2 S-Video Outputs. Nothing else I'm considering even comes close.
Anyone know if the Denon/Kenwood/Yamaha systems I mentioned have the 'auto-sensing' 57U referred to?
I think I'll go 'listen' to these systems today...
kevinw
10-09-2002, 03:15 PM
Kenwood has the audio sensor and binding posts.
Kenwood (http://www.dealznet.com/htb544.html)
Denon (http://store.yahoo.com/letsgodigital/dht683xp.html) Onkyo (http://store.yahoo.com/letsgodigital/hts650.html)
Here you go Specs on all three..
I have to disagree on the 1 watt theory. Larger wattage is better at handling peaks in volume without straining the system.
Originally posted by kevinw
I have to disagree on the 1 watt theory. Larger wattage is better at handling peaks in volume without straining the system.
1. Agreed, but...
2. You have to double power to get 3dB. Usually this is insignificant.
3. The Kenwood has 10 times the distortion at that power level, not very clean "power". The 20 watts "gains" you only 1dB. No one can even hear the difference between 90 and 91 dB.
4. Most people put far too much weight on power, instead of on the features, or ergonomics, or reliability, or "connectability", etc.
5. Damping factor can also be a good measure of how quickly an Amp responds to signals. This is very important for tight bass, although most people use subs now.
I've said enough now.
kevinw
10-09-2002, 03:55 PM
57-
I am gonna trust you after all you are an engineer. Hmm now you have me thinking about buying a new receiver even though mine does a great job. Could you explain to my wife why I need a new one please.:D
Originally posted by kevinw
Could you explain to my wife why I need a new one please.:D When I spent a bunch of money on the HDTV, new receiver and new speakers, with her blessing (after all, our TV was 20, the Amp was 17 and the main speakers were 25 years old - they are now my surrounds). The first thing I did after I did a quick callibration and set up, was to put on her favourite programme, which, at the time, was X-files (not some dumb guy movie with a bunch of explosions). When she saw the detail (even though it was only EDTV) and heard a "tinkle" as some glass broke in the background and it sounded like it was real glass breaking, she said "wow". Then we went upstairs... :)
Kevin, I don't know if this will help you, but it may help some others reading this post...
kevinw
10-09-2002, 04:41 PM
Not with my wife, as far as she is concerned an old RCA with mono sound is fine with her. She even named my tv Fred so she could say " Kevin's just watching Fred again." She sees no need for HD,DVD or surround..:( It took her being mad at the cable company for us to get Dish.
That is what I get for marrying someone who believes the printed word is the world. She is a magazine editor.:)
nleaf
10-09-2002, 09:38 PM
Kevin ... specs there for the Kenwood say connector type is 'one-touch', not binding posts ... ?
Also, neither the Onkyo or Denon mention auto-detection ... can I safely assume this means neither has this feature or is there a URL that lists more 'complete' specs?
nleaf
10-09-2002, 10:36 PM
Tonight I listened to the Denon 683XP, the Onkyo HT-S650, and the Kenwood 505 and 544. The sound on the Onkyo seemed clearly superior to the other three, and pretty much sold me...
However, three potential problems with the Onkyo ... 1) the remote is small with tiny buttons close together, which I imagine is a total drag in the dark. 2) I couldn't tell if the receiver had autodetection (and no salesmen available to help...). 3) It looks like one drawback with this one is no component video switching facilities ... can someone explain this last one to me? i.e. what's the drawback of not having component video switching on an audio receiver?
thanks.
nleaf: These are pretty inexpensive HTB type systems. You cannot expect too much. I had a brief glance at the specs and I don't think two of them have any component video switching at all (the Denon says it does). This means you'll have to run your HD and DVD video (component video cables) directly to the TV, rather than through the receiver. This should not be a problem, but you'll have to run the audio to the receiver. It's therefore best if the TV and audio system equipment is in the same proximity.
The Onkyo may have sounded better because they put more money in the speakers. Speakers are usually the weakest link, with the most distortion and the most variability. The electronics are "more similar".
You would probably need to go for a separate receiver (more expensive) and a "5.1" speaker system, if you want some of the features I mentioned earlier. You'll have to decide if you have the budget for this. The equipment you're looking at is "entry level" and the sky's the limit from there. If you're really into the "home theatre experience" most people spend as much on the audio package as on the TV. (I've spent a lot more, but that's a personal preference.)
If they didn't mention auto-detection, it probably doesn't have it. Again less expensive systems don't have all the features.
I would not trust any specs you read on an URL, especially if the URL is not by the original manufacturer. I've seen no end of errors on these sites, so don't believe anything you read there - not bad for initial scoping studies, but not good for decision making. Check with the manufacturer's site or a brochure, there are fewer errors there, but still, errors do occur. If there's something you absolutely cannot live without, see it demonstrated, or get a "money back no questions asked" guarantee.
You can purchase a very good programmable remote (prontoNeo for example), but you're probably looking at about $100-$150. There are cheaper ones, but they aren't much good.
Happy Hunting. Remember most of the fun is in the chase. Don't rush.
kevinw
10-10-2002, 08:03 AM
One touch for the rears surrounds Binding post for the rest. ..I looked at mine last night.. It does have auto detection as wells as the ability to overide.It also has the seperate analog 5.1 and 2 optical and 2 coaxial digital connection.
With comp. switching you eliminate one step in switching devices-between your HD STB and progressive DVD player. It is helpfull if you have 3 devices that need component inputs ie: DVD player,game station and a STB . Not a big deal when you consider it also means purchasing extra cables.
spaceman_spiff
12-20-2002, 09:47 AM
Here is the info about dolby systems
Dolby Basics (http://www.dolby.com/ht/)
My wife doesnt want me to buy any surround package now, I had bought something that I didnt like (I would have bought better speakers) :(, she made return it saying there is no need for it. She is still a student, while I work. Can't wait for her to graduate. :D
