Help me understand?

[starbuck]

O.K. Just when i think i know everything?......I am of the understanding that video DAC's are used only on the component out. Am i right? Reason im asking is, ill be buying a upconverting player soon.I thought DVI or HDMI out is all in the "digital domain" so to speak, in other words no need for a video chip. I ask again, am i right? I heard some guy talking about a tosh or panny player that used faroudja on the hdmi out, but he's not a reliable source for me. Just so you know, im not really looking for the player this guy was talking about, i'm looking for knowledge here.I'm somewhat hooked on faroudja, so im wondering if faroudja has or will have a chip they'll use for DVI or HDMI out. I'm looking around on the web for answers, but i'm getting is very little and what i do get seems to counterdict itself. Please feel free to correct anything i THINK i know.

[brector]

The faroudja chip is used on the DVI or HDMI out. It takes the 480i signal and converts it to 480p, 720p, or 1080i (on my model). It is for the upconversion. HTH.

[kevinw]

The Zenith DVB 318 and its LG brother have the Faroudja processor in them.
http://search.ebay.com/zenith-DVB318_DVD-Players-Recorders_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfromZR9QQfromZR9QQsacategoryZ32852QQsojsZ1QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1

[starbuck]

Another reason i'm puzzled, i keep coming across things like this [Faroudja DCDi progressive-scan mode for smoother video with HD-compatible TVs (via the component video output] I just pasted that from the info on the DENON 2910 off of the crutchfield site.To me this means it only uses the chip on the component out, but like im saying, i dont know? And heres one ,same site but brectors model [If you have an HD-ready TV without a DVI input, you can still enjoy exceptional DVD pictures thanks to Faroudja DCDi™ progressive-scan technology.]Do you see what i mean? Again this to me is saying it only uses the chip on the component out, I appreciate the reply's but this is the kind of stuff i was talking about, it counterdicts what u guys and others are saying. Heres the links i copied from http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rQFZ0kovXfF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54400&I=033DVD1910 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rQFZ0kovXfF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=54400&I=033DV2910S Brector seems to understand my question, But kevin , try reading the first post again please, i dont think u got my question, no offense just trying to understand and hoping someone will give an answer.

[Ratman]

AFAIK the Faroudja DCDi processor is to deinterlace 480i material(s).

The deinterlace process is performed in the digital domain prior to video output. Therefore, I don't believe it matters which physical interface is used for video output (component, DVI/HDMI).

http://www.gnss.com/dcdi.phtml
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_335.html

You do have my curiosity piqued now... I'll keep looking for a definitive answer.

From the Samsung HD931 specs:
• Faroudja FLI-2310 de-interlacer/scaler with DCDi™ (DVI output only)

[kevinw]

From what I read the Faroudja chip converts the the 480i, all dvd's are encoded at 480i, to 480p,720p or 1080i. Most of the upconverting players will output 480p through the component and 720p/10801 throught the DVI.

Now I may have misunderstood your question but I thought you wanted to know of a player that has the Faroudja processing. That is why I offered up the Zenith or LG. They are well liked and they have the bonus of outputting HD resolution through the component outputs. The only one that I currently know about.

[starbuck]

I see what you put up there on the sammy ratman, thats the kind of stuff that im runing into all over the web, thats totally different from what the denon specs are saying. I'm glad you understand my question and i got you thinking about it, i knew someone else would start scratching there head. I posted this same question on "secrets of hi fi" forum, that site used to be so "pro faroudja" i thought for sure someone would know, but no reply yet.I'm on a mission , have to know the answer...jhonny five need input!!

[starbuck]

O.K, heres what "Kris Deering" a moderator at secrets of hi fi had to say, it's the 4th post down. http://hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1735 Check it out.

[brector]

I swear I have read it somewhere - but of course I can't find it now :)

[starbuck]

So the thread i started at secrets of hi fi is up to 2 pages now but still no real answers, just a moderator saying that the chip is used on the dvi/hdmi out.No offense to this guy but, to me thats just somebody talking. Im looking for real proof! Find anything yet Ratman??

[Ratman]

I don't think there's anything to look for.

DCDi's function is to deinterlace. Since all DVD's are 480i, Faroudja processing is used. All this is performed prior to outputting a video signal no matter the physical output used.

IMO... if you use component, the signal gets converted to analog when presented to the TV. With DVI/HDMI, the signal remains digital. I don't believe 'scaling' has any bearing.

[DVdude]

Ratman is correct, in that the DCDi is deinterlacing the interlaced 480 picture. It is up to the DVD player manufacturers whether or not they want to output that processed and enhanced video signal via a digital connector (DVI/HDMI) or an analog connector (Component/S-Video/RCA) or both. Most of the upscaling DVD players output that processed signal via the digital output on the DVD player, but not all of them.

Here's a quote from one that output's the Faroudja processed signal via Component output, "The DVB-318 is Zenith’s first scaling DVD player. This player also marks a first since it is the only DVD player on the market with the Faroudja FLI-2300 chip that scales via its component outputs. The player features a DVI output as well with the same scalable resolutions of 480p/720p/1080i."

Source: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=53&maxprice=300&deInt=Faroudja&mpeg=0

[starbuck]

OK makes sense so far, so if its up to the maufacturers weather its used or not, then the links i posted on the denons are saying that the chip is not used on the dvi/hdmi out right? So if i find a upscaling player i like{preferably denon}, i should call the manufacturer if i CANT find the info im looking for such as, using a dcdi chip on the dvi/hdmi out. CORRECT?

[Matt27]

Tell me when you get the denon, if that's the one your getting, and how it is PQ ans Sound quality wise.

I'm about to pull the trigger, and since we both own the same HDTV sets, then i have an idea of how the picture is going to look in mine.

Can't wait man, choices choices:)

So far i'm deciding on the Denon 1910, the Sony upscaling player and the panasonic S97S, and the Zenith 318

[starbuck]

Dont hold your breath. Christmas is gonna kill me cash wise! Sounds like youll get one first.I probably wont be getting a new one till mid january or so, and im still trying to find out if denon is using dcdi on the dvi/hdmi out. That will be the deciding factor on the denon for me, but that 2910 in silver is looking real good!

[Matt27]

i hear you man, so do you think the 2910 is worth it over the 1910?

If you want DVD-A and SACD then yeah , but i'm more interested in the 1910 and don't care for those features, although it would be nice.

also i have to get an dvi to hdmi cable to go with it and that is'nt going to be cheap either.But if i want the best possible picture quality then i'll get it, plus it's the only way to see the upconversion.

I still don't know too if it uses the faroudja chip over dvi.

[brector]

OK makes sense so far, so if its up to the maufacturers weather its used or not, then the links i posted on the denons are saying that the chip is not used on the dvi/hdmi out right?

No - the chip is used to upconvert the signals. If it comes out of your DVI output - it is using the chipset. What they were talking about is if the manufacturer chooses to use component or DVI to upconvert.

[brector]

I still don't know too if it uses the faroudja chip over dvi.

YES PEEPS - it uses the chipset over DVI :D:D

[Matt27]

also would my picture be a little clearer going from component and using the DVI from the denon instead?

Is the picture quality the same as component but just a little cleaner because it's a digital connection?

Keep in mind also that i own an direct view CRT 34" Sony 34hs420.

[Matt27]

Also Brector, is your sony an RP set? and which connection do you preffur DVI or component? any difference in picture quality when watching a movie say like the fifth element : Superbit edition.

I'm curious because i heard that through a DVI connection on some players the picture looks washed out, and the colors look very pale and not vibrant like the component connection.How does it look compared to component if i watched the fifth element superbit on 480p DVI, or 1080i upconverted?

It probably should'nt be a problem if you say the Faroudja chip gets used through DVI too, just curious that's all on how movies would look between the 2 connections.

[starbuck]

O.K.,O.K., Maybe im puttin to much on this whole thing, i dont know? I'll just buy the F@#$ing thing.I just wanted some proof, im sure u been there. As for matt, yes its the sacd and dvd audio that makes me want it, and easier to get in silver,and dvi and hdmi out.And heres a site for cheap cables. https://www.cablemegastore.com/products.asp?id=145 Hopefully someone wil post a link even cheaper. EDIT just found another one http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/dvivideocable.htm

[Matt27]

I think i may just keep the sony i have right now and get the HD DVD players when they come out at the end of 2005.That seems the more logical way, since if i get the denon, i'm going to have to buy again to get an HD dvd player which cost even more money so, i think i'm just going to wait.

Maybe i'll get the denon 1910 after the holidays like you, but i'm still comtimplating if it's worth it since the new players will be out shortly.

I never said the picture from my sony dvd player was bad, in fact it's very good, it's just i thought the picture quality could be a little better with a different player.

[brector]

Also Brector, is your sony an RP set? and which connection do you preffur DVI or component? any difference in picture quality when watching a movie say like the fifth element : Superbit edition.

I'm curious because i heard that through a DVI connection on some players the picture looks washed out, and the colors look very pale and not vibrant like the component connection.How does it look compared to component if i watched the fifth element superbit on 480p DVI, or 1080i upconverted?

It probably should'nt be a problem if you say the Faroudja chip gets used through DVI too, just curious that's all on how movies would look between the 2 connections.

Yes - my set is a 51" CRT RPTV. I am using the DVI for the 1910. I did most of my initial testing with Star Wars 2. I could tell a diff in 480i, 480p, and 1080i. I was worried about the DVI being darker than component (like when I tried my DCT - it was darker) but I have not had that problem with the 1910. I could not really tell a diff in 480p via component or DVI. And like I've said before - the DCDi does the upconverting. The new Sound and Vision mag said the DCDi does the de-interlacing on 480p, 720p, so I would assume it does the conversion to 1080i - I mean what else would :D.

[brector]

O.K.,O.K., Maybe im puttin to much on this whole thing, i dont know? I'll just buy the F@#$ing thing.I just wanted some proof, im sure u been there. As for matt, yes its the sacd and dvd audio that makes me want it, and easier to get in silver,and dvi and hdmi out.And heres a site for cheap cables. https://www.cablemegastore.com/products.asp?id=145 Hopefully someone wil post a link even cheaper. EDIT just found another one http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/dvivideocable.htm

I compared for months and finally said screw it - I want a player that will hold me over until HD DVD's come out. BUT - I also did not have a prog. scan player, it was just an old sony standard player.

[mayhem]

Trying to make sense of all in this thread -- a little bit confusing! I was hoping someone could help -- I just bought a Sony 51" CRT RPTV and ordered the Comcast DVR (w/ HD receiver) -- since the Sony has HDMI connections and I am assuming the Comcast receiver has at least an HDMI/DVI, should I go buy the appropriate cables? I hear you will see a noticeable difference w/ a LCD unit, but not so much w/ a CRT. Any advice??? Thanks...

[oman321]

You can buy the appropiate cable online (DVI to HDMI) for less money then the stores, do a google search or im sure others will chime in with a link. Your Comcast STB will have DVI but honestly not much of a difference that I can notice in PQ with DVI/HDMI in fact it caused problems for me (Moto Box was the cause) so switched back to component (no problems this way).

Anyhow cable will set you up with component & see if you can get the entire wiring package they come in with including a DVI cable (nice to have just in case). Be sure they give you the dual tuner DVR, same cost.

[starbuck]

Trying to make sense of all in this thread -- a little bit confusing! I was hoping someone could help -- I just bought a Sony 51" CRT RPTV and ordered the Comcast DVR (w/ HD receiver) -- since the Sony has HDMI connections and I am assuming the Comcast receiver has at least an HDMI/DVI, should I go buy the appropriate cables? I hear you will see a noticeable difference w/ a LCD unit, but not so much w/ a CRT. Any advice??? Thanks...
Scroll up^^^ use the links for cheap cables.