Newb Antenna Help

[Sikki]

Hi everyone, just got a HD Tivo and not having a great time tackling this whole OTA thing... I tried an indoor set top antenna with terrible results. I then went out a bought this... Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2185)
and put it in my attic pointed it towards the stations according to AntennaWeb.org and I receive all the channels below(Except 17 which I don't care about) with between 80 and 90 signal strength but all but a couple of the stations drop out or down to 30ish or worse 0 strength every 10 to 30 seconds or so. I really wanted to avoid putting it on the roof (Living in north Florida there nothing like putting a big lightning rod on your house) so I went out an bought this... Amp (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F001&product%5Fid=15%2D2507)
to replace the amp the antenna came with the antenna. So with the pre amp and the amp still poor signal strength and or lots of drop outs. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to put this thing the roof, but should I even continue with this antenna and how high should I put it? And is there anything I'm not doing or can do to make this a whole lot simpler? And what signal strength should I be shooting for? With Directv it was always over 80 and you shouldnt see any pixelation. Well I have them all in the 80's and I'm still seeing pixelation. Although this could be do to the signal drop offs... Any help would be a appreciated I just don't want to have to go back in the attic any more time than I already have and I don't want to go to all the trouble to get this thing on the roof and still get less than great results.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Sikki




* yellow - uhf WTEV-DT 47.1 CBS JACKSONVILLE FL 53° 17.3 19
* yellow - vhf WTLV-DT 12.1 NBC JACKSONVILLE FL 55° 17.7 13
* yellow - uhf WJXT-DT 4.1 IND JACKSONVILLE FL 55° 17.7 42
* yellow - uhf WJCT-DT 7.1 PBS JACKSONVILLE FL 52° 17.4 38
* yellow - uhf WAWS-DT 30.1 FOX JACKSONVILLE FL 52° 17.3 32
green - uhf WJEB 59 TBN JACKSONVILLE FL 53° 17.3 59
green - uhf WJWB 17 WB JACKSONVILLE FL 53° 17.5 17
* green - uhf WJWB-DT 17.1 WB JACKSONVILLE FL 53° 17.5 34
* green - vhf WJXX-DT 25.1 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 55° 17.7 10
green - uhf WTEV 47 CBS JACKSONVILLE FL 53° 17.3 47
lt green - vhf WTLV 12 NBC JACKSONVILLE FL 55° 17.7 12
lt green - uhf WAWS 30 FOX JACKSONVILLE FL 52° 17.3 30
red - uhf WJXX 25 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 214° 2.9 25
blue - vhf WJXT 4 IND JACKSONVILLE FL 55° 17.7 4
blue - vhf WJCT 7 PBS JACKSONVILLE FL 52° 17.3 7
violet - uhf WGFL 53 CBS HIGH SPRINGS FL 240° 57.8 53
violet - vhf WESH 2 NBC DAYTONA BEACH FL 166° 85.7 2
violet - uhf WCJB 20 ABC GAINESVILLE FL 228° 54.2 20
violet - uhf WPXJ-LP 41 PAX JACKSONVILLE FL 31° 16.7 41
violet - vhf WUFT 5 PBS GAINESVILLE FL 238° 45.9 5
violet - uhf WOGX 51 FOX OCALA FL 217° 61.3 51
violet - uhf WVEN 26 UNI DAYTONA BEACH FL 168° 59.5 26

[LeeS]

Sikki, Hi and welcome to HDTVoice.

Thanks for including the AntennaWeb results.

Several pieces of good news. 1. The stations are close. 2. The same direction. 3. All UHF or High VHF.

If you do go to the roof and you have still have poor results you may want to return the antenna and get something more traditional.

Look at the DB4 and DB2 antennas. The DB2 is very small, only 12" tall.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/MediumRangeAntennas.htm

Channel Master and Winegard both make similiar antennas. A good UHF antenna can also pickup the high VHF stations (channels 9-13)

RadioShack also has a nice little UHF unit for under $25:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

At the posted distances you may get good results with a good medium range antenna in your attic. I wouldn't put the DB2 in an attic at those ranges. DB4 yes.

I just installed the above RadioShack antenna for a friend last weekend and it worked great. In fact we were inside the house with the antenna sitting on top of his equipment rack and we were getting good signal strength, but we mounted it on the roof about 4' above the crest. We were 15-16 miles from the transmitters. Approx 50' of RG6 with no amp.

Let us know what you decide and how it works,
Lee

[kevinw]

Sounds like the signal drops are multipath. An antenna to try is the Channel Master 4228 or 4221. I use the amp you have but at the 18 mile range you shoud not need one. I am 35-40 miles from the towers.
A good high gain antenna like the ones Lees suggested or the ChannelMaster and you should have lock on solid signals with out the amp.

[Sikki]

Thanks for the advise, do you know what I should be looking for when it comes to signal strength? Once I get it up there how will I know I'm ready to go? I ask only because the first day I had it in the attic all the channels except one received 85 signal strength with no drop outs for the first day and then over the course of the next couple days I noticed 3 more join the list with drop outs. Is 85 strength ok, or should I be looking for a higher number?

Thanks
Sikki

[LeeS]

Don't have the Tivo manual handy (at work). My signal strength is around 85-90. Sometimes when the weather is bad, down to 75 or so but I don't have any issues with drop out.

I just can't recall what the manual says for a minimum signal :(

I'd consider 85 to be very good.

A good antenna and getting rid of the multipath is the solution.

IMHO
Lee

[kevinw]

Thanks for the advise, do you know what I should be looking for when it comes to signal strength? Once I get it up there how will I know I'm ready to go? I ask only because the first day I had it in the attic all the channels except one received 85 signal strength with no drop outs for the first day and then over the course of the next couple days I noticed 3 more join the list with drop outs. Is 85 strength ok, or should I be looking for a higher number?

Thanks
Sikki
I wish I had 85. Your antenna is in an attic. That alone can inhibit signal strength. If you are going to keep it in the attic, go for one of the ones we menetioned. You could continue with the one you have outside and I beleive all will be good.

[Sikki]

Success! Thanks for all your help. It turned out that the stealth looking antenna was my problem. I did try the radio shack UHF antenna and everything came in except my two VHF channels they were in the 20's for signal strength. So I actually went with this one (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2151) and I have 85+ strength with no amp on every channel except channel 17 which comes in at 15 strength. Strange since that one is the same distance and the same direction as the other towers. However, thats my WB channel so I could care less. I did mess up on a couple things however. First I forgot to put the Coax sealant on the connector(Where the cable screws onto the transformer connected to the antenna) on the antenna. Is this a huge deal? Because I have the mast locked down and it would be a huge pain taking it back down. My second mistake which can be fixed but it'll take me a day or two. I bought a static grounding block for the coax cable (The Mast is in the ground about a foot) but until I can get another roll of coax cable or a couple of screw-on male cable ends, I can't ground it. However I do have the antenna cable going through my surge protector. Is it even necessary? Can this wait until Saturday? Or should I unhook it right now until I can get it grounded.

Thanks again!

Sikki

[macmtn]

was getting them just fine until Monday nite (1/17) but suddenly lost them, anyone else having the same problem?

[kevinw]

was getting them just fine until Monday nite (1/17) but suddenly lost them, anyone else having the same problem?
Try rescanning, if that doesn't work check the direction of the antenna.
No need to keep adding to other posts. Start your own and Welcome to the Forum. :D

[spamster]

newbie here, to the board, and the world of OTA HDTV. Just got my equipment yesterday, hooked it all up, and I was AMAZED at my reception. Every channel comes in crystal clear............EXCEPT WJXX ABC. I have tried every antenna position I can think of. I can't even get a whiff of a single signal bar. I have tried tuning into 10 and 25, no go. Am I missing something? I am in Yulee, FL, and according to AntennaWeb, I amd about 25 miles from everything. It stands to reason that if I can get the other channels, I should at least get a hit sometime on WJXX, right? Look forward to your responses!

[BillG49]

spamster,

* red - vhf WJXX-DT 25.1 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 177° 25.9 10

It looks like WJXX-DT is broadcasting on VHF channel 10. You probably have a UHF only antenna. I'm new like you, and trying to figure out the best antenna for me. In Dallas, WFAA transmits on VHF channel 9, so I'm going to need a good combo antenna, since I'm 35 miles from the antenna farm.

[rochmndx]

Heck, just get a pair of unamplified set top rabit ears and adjust them to the wavelength of channel 10, which is 14.5 inches per side. mount it below the UHF antenna, and use a splitter in reverse to combine them, and see if that works.
If you get crap with that, get or make a VHF High/CH. 10 Yagi and a real combiner.

[Ratman]

spamster,
What antenna are you currently using?

For those that want to try the indoor antenna route and need VHF/UHF, this is worth a try (easily returnable).

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103917&cp=&kw=15-1880&parentPage=search

[HDuser]

Hey Sikki,
Can you please post model numbers to the ant's you posted.. I'm also in the market to purchase one for OTA. I was looking @ 15-2185 to mount in the attic. I'm mainly only interested in HD channels, Untill DISH launches the locals in HD later this year. All the SD locals I receive through satellite now. All my HD's are within 5 miles, I probably will have alright signal just using the coax to the attic. I don't have any experience with tuning in HD. I guess we'll see.

[Ratman]

Sikki hasn't posted in over a year, so I wouldn't expect an answer. ;)

If all of your digital channels are UHF (channels 14>) I'd suggest this at half the price (and probably better performance):
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&pg=3&kw=antenna&parentPage=search

[HDuser]

My fault, didn't even catch his post dates. You think that Ant is good for the attic?
All 8 of my local HD's are within 5 miles, 2 of 8 are VHF..

[tigerbangs]

You need an all-channel antenna for your area: the Radio Shack U-75 won't do it, as you need VHF in addition to UHF! Look at the Winegard HD-7210 or the PR-7015: both are cheap and very effective.
http://www.channelmaster.com/pdf/AntInstallGuide.pdf
Antenna Installation Guide

http://www.winegard.com/
Winegard

[Laramie]

Hi all...just would like some advice on which antenna to get for attic mount to receive following channels:

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf KDTP-DT 39 DAY PHOENIX AZ TBD 147° 29.3 39
* yellow - uhf KPPX-DT 51.1 i TOLLESON AZ 147° 29.3 52
* yellow - uhf KSAZ-DT 10.1 FOX PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 31
* yellow - uhf KPHO-DT 5.1 CBS PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 17
* yellow - uhf KPNX-DT 12.1 NBC MESA AZ 147° 29.3 36
* yellow - uhf KAET-DT 8.1 PBS PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 29
* green - uhf KNXV-DT 15.1 ABC PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 56
* green - uhf KTVK-DT 3.1 IND PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 24
* lt green - uhf KASW-DT 61.1 WB PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 49
* red - uhf KUTP-DT 45.1 UPN PHOENIX AZ 146° 29.4 26
* red - uhf KTVW-DT 33.1 UNI PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 34
* violet - uhf KPAZ-DT 21.1 TBN PHOENIX AZ 147° 29.3 20

Thanks!!

[tigerbangs]

Don't expect an attic mount to work well in your area: although the signals are strong, attic mounting in a hot climate is often the basis for poor reception. Most warm-weather areas like Phoenix and South Florida use CBS (Concrete Block and Stucco) construction, whose wire mesh used to attach the stucco effectively blocks TV signals. The same houses also have heavy roof structures, often with metallic-backed insulation that plays havoc with TV reception.
Fortunately, Phoenix has powerful transmitters located on top of South Mountain, and you won't need much of an antenna to get what you are looking for. The Phoenix digital TV signals are all on UHF, and a simple UHF antenna mounted on an eave outdoors and aimed at the transmitters will suffice. I suggest a Channel Master 4221/3021 or a Winegard AP-4400 4-bay UHF antenna. KNXV-DT, your ABC station, is, by far, the weakest of all of the digital signals coming from South Mountain, so, if you want to do this in time for the Super Bowl, don't even mess with an attic installation!

http://www.channelmaster.com/pdf/AntInstallGuide.pdf
Antenna Installation Guide

http://www.channelmaster.com/
Channel Master

http://www.winegard.com/
Winegard

[Laramie]

tigerbangs...

My house is framed with light, cotton-like insulation. There is a large vent area that would seem to work well to aim the antenna through if I go with the attic mount. Unfortunately, my home doesn't have overhanging eaves to attach anything to. The roof has flat tile--may be an issue attaching through the tile. Are any of the Terk or Radio Shack antennas decent? I couldn't find the 3021/4021 in town, however, I found a Channel Master 4228 at Fry's Electronics...will this do the job? It's an LD on the CEA and has the best range in the UHF only family. Do I need a DA for approx <50' run? Thanks...

[tigerbangs]

The Channel Master 4228 is actually a better antenna than the 4221/3021: it has more gain, but it's larger 39" square. It is always my go-to antenna when reception is tough. If your house has no overhanging eaves, that is actually a benefit to you! Use a simple wall mount on the side of the house, just high enough to have the antenna peek over the highest point of the roof. You can use a Channel Master 9016 or 9023 pair of wall-mount brackets, and as much masting as you need to get the antenna to see over the roof. Radio Shack also sells antenna mast wall-mount brackets that work just fine. I would pick up the 4228 from Frys and 2-5' sections of masting, enough coaxial cable and the wall brackets to mount the masting and the antenna. Have a look at this installation guide: it tells you what you need to know! Look specifically at fig. 4-12 to see what I am talking about. You do not need to have masting that runs from the ground to the top of the roof: mount the brackets on the end of your house above the window-line on the A-frame part of your roof.

http://www.channelmaster.com/pdf/AntInstallGuide.pdf

[HDuser]

You need an all-channel antenna for your area: the Radio Shack U-75 won't do it, as you need VHF in addition to UHF! Look at the Winegard HD-7210 or the PR-7015: both are cheap and very effective.

Hey Tigerbangs,
I see you mentioned the PR-7015. Isn't that esentially the same as RadioShacks VU-75 XR (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103084&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family)
RadioShacks has boom length of 50" & 18 elements.
Thanx for the help,
Mike

[tigerbangs]

No, actually, they are very different antennas: The PR-7015 is an antenna with straight elements, and the Radio Shack VU-75 has swept-back elements. The construction quality of the Winegard is better, too...

[HDuser]

Will the RadioShack work for my limited 5 mile range needed?
I don't know of any retail store that carries Winegard.
I can pick up 3 or 4 HD's with just a scrap piece of CAT5 in a loop.. I personally don't think that it is going to be as big of a deal as I'm making it.

[Ratman]

Will the RadioShack work for my limited 5 mile range needed? .

It's quite probable. Try it and if it doesn't work out... it's easily returnable. Good luck!

[Laramie]

Tigerbangs...I decided to go against what you recommended for my antenna mount. I did get the 4228, but mounted it in my attic--I just had to find out for myself if it would work or not. I am getting high 80s to low 90s on all local channels that I'm interested in!! I was pretty surprised especially after what you had mentioned with my local ABC channel which is at 92!! Thanks for the suggestion on the antenna. It was a pain in the rear to get it through my attic opening, but well worth it! Thanks again.