Stupid Question

[mariposarosada]

This may be a stupid question, but couldn't you increase the brightness of a projector simply by putting a brighter bulb in?

I know these are very special bulbs, but theoretically, is it possible? Or are there other factors to consider?

[MathGuy]

I've tried putting a 100W bulb in a light socket that said "60W only". The results weren't pretty. I regret doing that, and the bulb only cost me 50 cents. If you want to try with a $200 dollar, be my guest. Just make sure you report your findings back here.

[mariposarosada]

That's really not a good answer to my question. You're talking about an ordinary, incandescent household bulb. Projector bulbs are much different. Some are xenon to my knowledge.

Are there other factors to consider, such as different grades of LCD panels that can handle different amounts of light before chemically changing?

BTW, the snideness is really juvenile.

[oman321]

Hey Pinkbutterfly, I dont think Mathguy is being snide with his comments just making a point. Basically the equipment is rated for a certain type of bulb which draws a certain amount of power. If you install a brighter bulb (if it fits) it would will require additional power which A: the unit cannot provide or B: the unit will give but may and probably will damage your projector. Best thing to do is contact the manufacturer and see if its possible.

[mariposarosada]

I hadn't thought about the power draw. Very insightful.

I wonder what else is involved. I mean, if all it took was a better power supply and a better bulb, it would be "relatively" cheap to produce a brighter image.

Is this a way for manufacturers to segment the market? Pop in a better power supply and a better bulb and sell it for more?

[wkrasl]

I hadn't thought about the power draw. Very insightful.

I wonder what else is involved. I mean, if all it took was a better power supply and a better bulb, it would be "relatively" cheap to produce a brighter image.

Is this a way for manufacturers to segment the market? Pop in a better power supply and a better bulb and sell it for more?

I don't think the incremental cost of a brighter bulb is an issue for the manufacturer. Lumens is a seriously important competitive spec. I am betting that they all spend a large part of their design budget figuring out how to increase brightness without melting the case and motherboard, without frying the electronics, and while keeping the cooling fan at an acceptable noise level.

[Eldorado]

A brighter bulb would produce more heat which would make the fan run faster and louder. The projector may overheat and the unit may shut down to protect the expensive electronic circuitry. Get a darker room or a screen with an increased gain or both.

[Crunchyriff]

A brighter bulb would produce more heat which would make the fan run faster and louder. The projector may overheat and the unit may shut down to protect the expensive electronic circuitry.

Bingo. This is, IMHO, what the "snide" comment was all about- truth. Projectors and their components (and housings/chassis) are spec'd with a certain bulb in mind. Lets say you bump the factor up by, oh, 50% or more- just for grins. In this ficticious scenario you are wanting to bump it up to be able to watch in a moderate amt. of ambient light.

Aside from the quote I pasted, you might full well put the projector's housing into a literal meltdown..or worse... :whistle:

[MathGuy]

Hey Pinkbutterfly, I dont think Mathguy is being snide with his comments just making a point. Basically the equipment is rated for a certain type of bulb which draws a certain amount of power. If you install a brighter bulb (if it fits) it would will require additional power which A: the unit cannot provide or B: the unit will give but may and probably will damage your projector. Best thing to do is contact the manufacturer and see if its possible.
Well, I was actually being snide, because I was having a bad day, but you got my point anyway. Expensive electronics tend to be fairly sensitive to the components they expect. I wouldn't do anything that might overpower a projector, ruining a $200 bulb and possibly a $2000 projector.

[oman321]

"Well, I was actually being snide, because I was having a bad day"


Bringing out the Bostonian in ya. :santa: Happy Holidays.

[mariposarosada]

So, what I'm hearing is that a brighter bulb is troublesome primarily due to heat, and the effects that heat has on the projector's components.

This is a good point. But it begs the fact that the brightness of projectors, in general, is steadily improving. And the things aren't melting/failing.

Moreso, projector fans are getting quieter.

This can mean one or more of a few things:
1. Newer, brighter projectors won't last as long.
2. Fans/airflow are being improved so that they are more efficient/quiter.
3. Newer components can handle greater heat.
4. Newer bulbs are brighter, but cooler.
5. Older/less bright projectors would benefit from a brighter bulb, without damage.
6. There's more than bulb power involved in projector brightness.

I think a little of all of the above are true, but what I'm really wanting to know is which factors, aside from bulb power, govern image brightness. And, how do these factors interact with one another?

i.e. LCD quality/durability; lens quality; aperture; image processing; cooling efficiency; tradeoff between brightness and contrast.

Oh, and don't worry. I'm not about to try out different bulbs in my projector. Though, it would be nice to have a bright image without the shades pulled.

[oman321]

Put it this way, if the manufacturer could put a brighter bulb in there, they would. If they wouldn't because of costs they would most likely tell you so, so you could buy it from them for a profit.

[mariposarosada]

Manufacturers often make minor tweaks to products to differentiate them, so they have something available at a number of price points. They sell more and make more. While the cost to make these tweaks is minor, the price charged to the consumer is often considerable.

Some digital camera makers, for instance, sell esentially the same camera (same CCD, same lens, same body, same processor, etc.) as two different models at two different prices. Sometimes the only difference is in the software (not hardware) of the camera. While it does take some time and money to develop the software, the variable cost (cost to include the software in the camera as firmware) is negligible.

Sometimes, the only difference among products in a company's lineup is packaging. Bausch and Lomb got called on this a couple of years ago. They were selling three different varieties of disposable contact lenses, one indicated to last for a day, another for a week, and another for a month. Turns out they were all the same lens. It was less expensive for them to produce one quality of lens than it was for them to produce three different kinds.

So, saying that projector makers would put a brighter bulb in if they could seems a little naive.

[kevinw]

Could it be that the cost of prodcucing a brighter bulb that has the same life expectancy of a less bright bulb does not make up the difference? If the brighter bulb costs more and does not last as long, is it worth it to the consumer or the manufacturer?

[oman321]

Hey Pinky im going to refer you to your own post number 3, ya that last sentence where it says BTW...

I see your point about everything except that naive part. Same parts and components but slightly different models because of a couple tweaks and so on. But, were talking about bulbs, which draw a certain amount of power. What happens when you connect 14/2 electrical wire on a 20 amp circuit breaker which requires 12/2 wire? Simple to much power gets drawn through that wire, the wire heats up to a cherry red, your house burns down. Same thing will happen to your projector give it a shot and see. Now your bringing out the Bostonian in me. Happy Holidays.

[mariposarosada]

How much more would it cost to put a different power supply/transformer in a projector to power a different bulb? Not much. Add to that the incremental cost of a brighter bulb and you have very little spent making a bright projector brighter through relatively minor hardware tweaks.

Your wiring analogy isn't really appropriate.

I'm not trying to be a smart-butt. I'm honestly interested in the technology.

[Blaster]

How much more would it cost to put a different power supply/transformer in a projector to power a different bulb?

Your wiring analogy isn't really appropriate.

I'm not trying to be a smart-butt. I'm honestly interested in the technology.

I kinda follow along with oman's line
you're trying to out think the experts

my analogy would be someone that buys a standard Pick Up Truck,
throws a set of oversized monster tires on it, then can't figure out why
the front end parts keep wearing out and they can't keep it aligned...

just saying that a lot of work and science goes into building these sets
and it's a fine line between performance and longevity

just my thoughts

:Party6: Ho Ho Ho

[oman321]

That's cool just messing with ya. Even though I think the wiring analogy does apply. Anyhow you are digging a little further when you talk about changing the power supply and what have you. Everything needs to be factored in though. Unless you have a technical background or friend who does and would be able to make the necessary tweaks the cost to make these changes would probably add up, while also voiding your warranty, and no one wanting to touch if it does go bad.

For the money I would probably buy a new one and sell the old one. LOL Butterfly.

[oman321]

You mean you still expected to stop with stock pads and rotors is what the mechanic told the guy in the full body cast...HEHE :D

[mariposarosada]

God knows how many different variables are considered when making a projector. I know there's a lot of very sophisticated components.

Is there a projector expert that visits this board that could tell us?

The reason I started thinking about this is the new Panasonic AE700, which replaces the AE500. Both, I believe, use the same LCD panels and have the same resolution. However, the newer model is brighter and has better contrast. The kicker is that the bulb in the newer one can last up to 3000 hours longer than the older model (Up to 5000 hours from 2000 hours).

I'm wondering how this was accomplished.

[mariposarosada]

Oh, and I'm not about to tinker with my projector. I learned my lesson when I tried to replace the batteries in grandma's pacemaker. May she rest in peace.

[wifeB8]

Mariposarosada posted a very interesting question? Does a brighter bulb get you better brightness results? The answer is Yes and no. In theory it would but to answer his question there are several other factors to consider. Since I’m more familiar with LCD projectors I’ll use this as an example. Ignoring the effects of heat and wattage on the components which can be minimized by larger cooling fans and better power supplies. You need to look at the overall LCD design structure to see if a brighter bulb would offer any benefits. In order to get a brighter image you need to get more light thru the LCD panels. This involves polarizing the light. Some of the high end stuff no longer requires the use of filters to do this, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the LCD can pass unlimited amount of light. If the specs don’t allow for this it defeats the purpose of a brighter bulb. The next thing to look at is the aperture of the LCD and its ratio. This has been one of the most important technology developments in recent years. If the aperture can’t handle the increase in light it defeats the purpose of having a brighter light bulb. Finally, the use of micro lenses array technology on LCD projectors allows for each pixel to have a dedicated lens to maximize the light delivered. If this is of low quality or non existent it defeats the purpose of having more light output at the bulb.

There is no point in using a higher wattage or brighter bulb if the LCD structure can’t handle it and by that I don’t mean higher wattage or heat.

[Eldorado]

I am being smart and I'm not from Boston. I don't know a bulb that lasts the numbers of hours claimed by the manufactuer in good shape. My expensive bulb replacement misadventures left me cynical and bitter.