Sony 'High Scan' CRT.

[deep6]

OK. I'm new, but I do have a general knowledge of these technologies.
Given that premble, this may sound like a dim question.
What does Sony's 'High Scan' actually mean. (KD34XS955 just purchased)
Does it refer only to the fact that it has to scan more lines for its active pixel matrix? Could it posibly mean it could provide even a 480p image (true progressive) on its display?! I'm thinking not.
I must say I've had this TV for 1 day, and I do believe I like the colour and contrast, blacks are black, and therefore nice depth. I am however a little put off by the interlacing going on with DVD playback, and must admit I've never noticed the jaggies created on straight lined objects as I see now. Please tell me there is a hidden setting I've missed to antialias these lines at least. I realize movies are shot progressively, then converted, which causes a problem for flawless playback on CRT's - but WOW. Its bad. (eg. LOTR "Return of the King" 40:14 into it, pan of Sword - PAUSE it, and you may see what I'm seeing).
Thanks for any comments. I'm beginning to feel a progressive scan system is the way to go for geometry, CRT system for colour. Am I correct ?

[mjones73]

What model DVD player and how is it attached to the TV? Your TV can support 480p along with 720p and 1080i, the high scan refers to the fact it's a HD set. You would want it hooked up via component or DVI/HDMI for best picture results.

[jco]

Sounds like you have mistakenly set the DVD player for 4:3 output possibly? Make sure the DVD player is set for 16:9 Monitor.

[deep6]

I have an admittedly low end Toshiba SD-1600 DVD player connected via S-Video. Though the DA's are on the low end and will eventually be replaced, I can't imagine it's causing the jaggies. It is set to play on a 16:9 monitor.

mjones73, when you say 'support' 720p, does that mean it displays an unaltered progressive 720p image, or 'create' an interlaced version of this 720p data ? This is where I havn't yet gotten a straight answer, even from my Sony sales guy, who also suggested a progressive output DVD Player to go along with my new Sony CRT (conveniently made by Sony).

In my mind, any progressive DVD manufactured by the studios (since the only ones out now are interlaced versions of a progressively shot film medium) will NOT be optimized for my system, though it may 'accept' it.

Thanks for your responses guys.

[mjones73]

Your TV most likely defaults everything to a 1080i display, you need to determine what it's native resolution.. Having the DVD player hooked up via s-video and the fact it's an older unit is most likely your cause of poor PQ...

[jco]

S-Video? Old DVD player? Thats crazy if you have a 34" Sony HDTV. Get a new DVD player (The Sonys are really good and sony can help you if you have a problem) with progressive scan output and connect to the TV via component video cables. I am using Sony DVD into Sony HDTV CRT and the result is fantastic. I do not see jaggies at all unless I play a real old non-anamorphic DVD and even then its real slight.
Good Luck

[deep6]

I said I checked the DVD player was set to 16:9 output and is was?
Well it wasn't. I changed it, and everything looks SMOOOTH! Thanks.
For whatever reason it looked correct when I checked it, but after having completed the next loop of trouble shooting, it was NOT set that way.

All of a sudden, with the tweaks from PRO mode I set to please my (and kinda my girlfriends) eyes, I'm really diggin the DVD quality picture albeit with sub-standard DA's/connects/etc.. That will change.

I will now continue to enjoy my new eye candy , and further probe my other questions concerning the 'progressive output' DVD player compatability with my inherently interlaced TV technology.

To my knowledge thus far, it seems the origional interlaced DVD frames are being transformed into 24 progressive frames in the DVD player, then re-timed to equal 30 frame (video frame rate) output from the DVD player to your TV. If that TV happens to be mine and yours (CRT), our TV's have to then convert that BACK into an interlaced 60 field format so our TV's can display it.?! This cant(?) be true - please someone enlighten me.

Anyway, thanks for fixing the problem quickly, it could've taken me days!

[jco]

WRONG- all the sony HDTVs can display true 480P output from the latest 480P DVD players. Trust me if you are using S-Video connection your picture is nowhere near
as good as it will be with component video connection and a progressive scan DVD
player. GET A SONY DVD player. They are outstanding and cheap. Even a five disker is only about $125.

[Ratman]

That could be debatable.

With many TV's incorporating reverse 3:2 pulldown (as does the Sony), sometimes the deinterlacing can be performed better in the TV than the DVD player. YMMV

[jco]

That could be debatable.

With many TV's incorporating reverse 3:2 pulldown (as does the Sony), sometimes the deinterlacing can be performed better in the TV than the DVD player. YMMV
Not true in this case however, I am able to select between interlaced and progressive output on the Sony DVD (2004 vintage) player via a switch and the resulting picture on the monitor looks better with the DVD doing the Progressive conversion.

Secondly the component video connections will always give a better result than using S-Video because they are essentially the true RGB signals without any unnecessary video signal processing that S video involves so if he has an older player without component outputs he needs to get rid of it immediately as it wont permit proper highest performance connection to any monitor that has the component inputs.

[mjones73]

Which unit between the DVD player and the TV that can handle deinterlacing better is going to vary from combination to combination. Unless he has the exact same model line TV as you and the exact same player you can't state what he's going to see...

[Ratman]

Not gospel either.

Your TV is a 27" and the opening post has a 34". Two different sets, therefore there may be two different results.

Also... when using an interlaced video feed, component is not always better than S-Video.

[mjones73]

I have yet to be able to find a solid answer on what resolutions this TV runs at but it does appaear to have multiple native resolutions, it looks like it has a "DRC Mode" that upscales 480i/p signals but you can disable it. The owners manual is very vague about it. Makes me want to run out and buy a Sony :rolleyes:

Not trying to knock your TV, I'm sure it's a nice set, it's just annoying when manufacturers keep you in the dark about what that expensive TV you just bought can actually do.

[deep6]

You are correct. The manual is very vague. The salesmen seem even more vague, if not completely bedazzeled by their own Sony literature which I'm thinking keeps them busy enough learning the acronyms, and not busy enough understanding what it really means. Not the place to find unbiased answers.

I must include in this thread, this Sony set of mine provides an incredible picture. Incredible!
I've been in the post-production business for 12 years, and I've seen many a colour transfer, on many professional monitors.
This set shows incredibly rich colours and contrast. I can't imagine NOT having bought this set - and in 3 years, Sony will discontinue their line of consumer CRT sets. Kind of makes me want to get a second one to store in a warehouse for 10-12 years.
I have faith however that, just as CD technology weathered the storm of its horrible infant stages of sound reproduction, other technologies will provide the capabilities for such rich colour and depth to be displayed in flat panel screens. Not yet though. Not by a mile.

Thanks kindly for your comments - they seem to run the gamut, as they should. In the end, my eyes will be the judge! I'm going to grad a Sony 575 DVD player from work tonight (component out) to try out. I'll get to the bottom of this yet. My problem isn't SEEING the difference, it's the curiousity of TRULY understanding what is going on to produce the picture.

Cheers,

Warrian

[jco]

Not gospel either.

Your TV is a 27" and the opening post has a 34". Two different sets, therefore there may be two different results.

Also... when using an interlaced video feed, component is not always better than S-Video.
S-video routing can never look better than component connections and will usually look far worse depending on the quality of the UNNECESSARY video processing S video involves. If you knew what S video signals were you wouldnt make such statements. DVDs have red/green/blue baseband data, TVS display red green blue base band data. When you use the component video inputs thats all thats involved progressive or interlaced. S-Video signals on DVD
player are there only for the old TVs that didnt have RGB(component) video inputs so they took the RGB signals and matrixed them (special mixing) to two signals, luminance and chroma, and feed those to the TV. The TV then seperated them back into RGB again for display. S-video is/was an improvement over really old single signal COMPOSITE video, but it is never as good as component. All those steps add noise and distortion and are not necessary if the TV has direct RGB (component) inputs. So to say that S-Video is ever the way to go with a DVD player and TV that both have the component outputs and inputs does not make any sense even with interlaced video on the DVD output.

[jco]

I must include in this thread, this Sony set of mine provides an incredible picture. Incredible!
I've been in the post-production business for 12 years, and I've seen many a colour transfer, on many professional monitors.
This set shows incredibly rich colours and contrast. I can't imagine NOT having bought this set - and in 3 years, Sony will discontinue their line of consumer CRT sets. Kind of makes me want to get a second one to store in a warehouse for 10-12 years.


Cheers,

Warrian
I have been arguing this over in another thread. The color fidelity and grayscale on these new sonys when fed with digital (DVD/HDTV) is absolutely
gorgeous to say the least and the delicate shading I am seeing in colors
and fleshtones just makes the image pop off the screen. I am not very
happy with the resolution and shadowmask on mine (KV27HS420) but damn
the color and greyscale is to die for....When you look at inferior performance video after watching this for a while they look so fake and very unsatifying.....
Problem is now I am stuck with tiny CRTs (36" is wimpy for a living room) until I find something to match.

[deep6]

Just hooked up a progressive scan DVD player w/component output.

Okay, I've just seen that component video makes a huge difference as electronics 101 would dictate. This is with cheap RCA cables you get at the drugstore. It's just completely obvious the colour detail that comes rushing out. The pores of peoples skin suddenly became aparent, and I realized with compsite or SV, it was more like a noisy slew of improperly coloured pixels. It was like lifting a layer of grainy buildup off the picture tube that I thought already looked great! In a way it made things a lot smoother, without losing any detail. It plain and simply poished things up.

Now for the issues of Progressive scan DVD's on my 34" CRT screen. jco has said there's a marked difference on his system. My TV so far wants to play it at full screen (1080), even though the DVD player is feeding it a 420p output (via the switch on the back) I'm not getting the 420p image I'm looking for, and I KNOW this TV cant generate a 1080p image! So there's an upconversion going on and I haven't found how change that - though I'm very familiar now with my SET UP items and MENU. Stay tuned.

Awesome picture quality !!!!

[mfabien]

Not true in this case however, I am able to select between interlaced and progressive output on the Sony DVD (2004 vintage) player via a switch and the resulting picture on the monitor looks better with the DVD doing the Progressive conversion.

Secondly the component video connections will always give a better result than using S-Video because they are essentially the true RGB signals without any unnecessary video signal processing that S video involves so if he has an older player without component outputs he needs to get rid of it immediately as it wont permit proper highest performance connection to any monitor that has the component inputs.

I do not agree. I second Ratman's statement. My CRT RPTV shows a better display when the image is interlaced. For that reason, my new DVD player is connected via S-Video. When viewing SD from my STB/DVR, I also use my Component connection and change the picture format to 480i. I have now removed picture format 480p from my STB setup.

[deep6]

mfabien, is that to say your DVD won't output Component Video signals while it's in interlaced mode? I wonder why. You would surely benefit in picture quality - trust me.
What knid of player do you haVe?

[mkohrs]

Help please! Last Monday I purchased an open-box KV40XBR800 from Circuit City. It has a 4:3 ratio but with DVD I still end up with a beautiful 37" screen. Here's the problem-over the weekend I noticed a blue discoloration on the left side of the screen. Should I exchange this TV while I can? It's going to be hard to find a suitable replacement. Thanks for any suggestions. Next choice is the KD34XBR960 but it's not as big!

[Ratman]

Help please! Last Monday I purchased an open-box KV40XBR800 from Circuit City. It has a 4:3 ratio but with DVD I still end up with a beautiful 37" screen. Here's the problem-over the weekend I noticed a blue discoloration on the left side of the screen. Should I exchange this TV while I can? It's going to be hard to find a suitable replacement. Thanks for any suggestions. Next choice is the KD34XBR960 but it's not as big!

Please post your question in the appropriate forum as a new thread. Thanks.

(posting a new/different question in an existing thread is called 'hijacking'.)

[jco]

I do not agree. I second Ratman's statement. My CRT RPTV shows a better display when the image is interlaced. For that reason, my new DVD player is connected via S-Video. When viewing SD from my STB/DVR, I also use my Component connection and change the picture format to 480i. I have now removed picture format 480p from my STB setup.
If 480i looks better than true 480P on your set, something is wrong!
If S-Video connections look better than Component Connections, something is wrong! All my statements are based on good working equipment, of course if you have something defective or of very questionable quality then all bets are off but I didnt think I had to state the obvious!

[jco]

Help please! Last Monday I purchased an open-box KV40XBR800 from Circuit City. It has a 4:3 ratio but with DVD I still end up with a beautiful 37" screen. Here's the problem-over the weekend I noticed a blue discoloration on the left side of the screen. Should I exchange this TV while I can? It's going to be hard to find a suitable replacement. Thanks for any suggestions. Next choice is the KD34XBR960 but it's not as big!
do you have any audio loudspeakers close to the CRT? If you do and they are unshielded they may be causing the problem. Try moving them away and turn the TV on and off a few times to demagnitize it.