Poll: direct view vs. projection

[aj327]

I'd like to see what the general opinion is on this matter. I know a lot of people have told me lately that projection is the superior technology, and I've also read a lot of threads saying that direct view wins out.

So, if people are up for it, I think it would be very informative to see the following types of High Def TVs slug it out as they are the most common and most reasonable to attain at the moment:

1) Direct View CRT

2) Rear Projection CRT

3) Rear Projection LCD


Based on the following Criteria:

1) Picture Quality (brightness, convergence issues, detail, motion artifact, overall enjoyment, etc.)

2) Reliability (burn in, tube life, chance of something going wrong, etc.)

3) Bang for Buck

If I left anything out, please add in as many comments as you like.

By the way, I know that there's probably no bottom line on this issue, but it should be interesting nonetheless.

Thanks in advance,

-aj327

[LeeS]

A non-technical response :)

In my case I was shopping in the 60" range. That pretty much eliminated the direct views.

Direct view vs projection. I believe this is more a choice of size more than anything else. All things being equal a smaller screen size will look better. Pixels are closer together.

LCD projection vs CRT projection. I believe this is a choice of price. Plus the LCD projection sets seemed to have an issue with contrast, the blacks didn't seem as black to me. I only looked at the Sony and Panasonic. I've been told that the LCD's don't burn. There is just a 'bright' lamp shining through 3 LCD panels.

You left out the Plasma sets. Very good picture. Extremely thin, good for hanging on the wall. More expensive when compared to the first two. They will burn.

Don't know much about the DLP systems except they are mostly in projectors and very pricey for good ones. They don't burn either.

About reliabilty, Murphy's law, can't remember which one. If something can go wrong it will. Just check the forums, there are complaints about every manufacturer. Pick a good dealer, know the return policy. Pick a good name brand. I have been doing business with the same guys for over 10 years. I don't have problems with returns.

I picked a Toshiba, price was good, picture is good. If I got it home and didn't like it I could trade for a Sony. My dealer doesn't do Mitsubishi but the high end models I looked at were pretty nice. I might have gone that way.

Lee

[57U]

As I mentioned in another post, direct view and projection sets don't compete in the same size range, so your question is irrelevant.

36" or less are DV.
40" or larger are RPTV.

If you've got lots of money, you buy something else like front projection, LCD, Plasma, LCoS, DLP, etc. These sets also cost 2, 3, 4, even 5 times as much as RPTVs of similar quality.

Almost none of these sets "compete" on features or $ terms. Your "poll" is next to meaningless. Comparing a 50" projection to a 36" DV is just not on.

First thing you need to decide is what size TV you want. Once you've done that, find out which manufacturers and which types of HDTV are available in that size. Then you can get down to some comparisons.

[aj327]

Well 57U, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you.

I happen to be in the market for either a 34 or 40 inch TV. Either one will do, either one will fit. To say that you can't compare picture quality between a 34 inch direct view and a 40 inch Projection TV is ridiculous. Yes, one is 6 inches bigger than the other, but do you mean to tell me that if you had the two sitting next to each other you would have no opinion. If I took you shopping with me you would just say..."nope, this one is bigger than that one...so it's anybody's guess which one looks better."


Anyway, I think the poll is unquestionably legitimate. If people want to answer it I would be interested to read their input and I think people would benefit from the discussion. Especially people who are in my boat...looking for something between 34 and 40 inches and under 2500 dollars.

-aj327

[Ratman]

Well here goes...

Many folks will cringe or disagree but...

The F38310 IMO is a real deal. Direct View 38" widescreen with a built in receiver (satellite and OTA). Avg, price $1700. (I know.. I know! It does have it's known bugs, but if you are fully aware of these things 'up front', it still justifies the cost. I've been VERY happy with mine for almost 1 year - no problems)

I prefer direct views. Period. I find that RPTV's are too dim, angled viewing compromises the PQ, limited life on CRT's, etc.

[zarlor]

PQ: In order I'd rate them CRT RPTV, CRT DirectView, LCD

Reliability: That's a tough one. There are far too many factors where one is better than the other that I think in the overall equation you could probably mark them all about even. I'd probably check with the resident repair expert, Woodman, for his opinions on the reliability issue. Not to mention that this one will vary depending on manufacturer.

3) Bang for Buck: CRT RPTV, first... and I'd have to tie on CRT Directviews and LCDs. They both have pluses and minuses in this category that I would say even out in the end.

Wow, that's gotta be one of the shortest posts I've ever put up here. ;)

[DBC944]

I disagree with 57U. I also have been debating this very same question myself. I "see" the 34" sets as having a better PQ today, with RPTV's PQ degrading in direct relation to size. If NTSC was switched off today, then a RPTV displaying HDTV would win me over.

So I sit firmly on the fence, knowing that the longer I wait, the more HDTV programing will be available(here in Ontario) and that whatever TV I buy will be cheaper in the future. Connectivity issues like DVI/Firewire or something else will also become clearer, hopefully.

[woodman]

Originally posted by Ratman
Well here goes...

Many folks will cringe or disagree but...

The F38310 IMO is a real deal. Direct View 38" widescreen with a built in receiver (satellite and OTA). Avg, price $1700. (I know.. I know! It does have it's known bugs, but if you are fully aware of these things 'up front', it still justifies the cost. I've been VERY happy with mine for almost 1 year - no problems)

I prefer direct views. Period. I find that RPTV's are too dim, angled viewing compromises the PQ, limited life on CRT's, etc.

Cringe or disagree? I almost upchucked my breakfast when I saw you recommending this monstrosity to an unknowing and trusting soul like aj here ... for shame, for shame!

First off, congratulations on a successful year with that beast! To say that you've been fortunate (so far) is an understatement, IMO. To the best of my knowledge, it's the only TV set that's ever had to be "pulled" from the marketplace in order to try and rectify the many problems and defects! Of course, RCA tried their level best to keep this horrific episode "in the closet", and I guess they were somewhat successful at doing so, but the very fact that a set that originally had a pricetag of nearly $4K is now discounted to FAR below original dealer's cost should raise a warning flag of some sort.

I believe that you and I have been in agreement on other issues discussed here, but on this one .......... sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

[57U]

Originally posted by aj327
Well 57U, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you.I happen to be in the market for either a 34 or 40 inch TV. ...and under 2500 dollars. Sorry aj, when you first posted you were looking at an LCD at roughly $3k, so I was a bit confused where you were headed.

RPTVs are definitely the worst for "burn-in".

If you vary your viewing a lot, burn in should not be an issue, however, if you only did video games, or only 4:3, then it would be a concern.

On Direct views, with varied viewing, you shouldn't have a burn in problem. I see you leaning that way and it may be your best option.

RPTVs are typically easier to repair though since they are "more modular". You'd rarely have to pay more than $3-500 to fix an RPTV because that's just about the most expensive piece in there. With DV TVs, the most expensive item is the tube and that is ultra expensive, as Woodman has already mentioned.

Overall reliability of the two types of TV are about the same, given the same manufacturer.

As for picture quality, I don't think there is a difference between DV and RPTV when viewed at the same size and when properly set up.

[Marty]

Originally posted by aj327
Well 57U, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you.

I happen to be in the market for either a 34 or 40 inch TV. Either one will do, either one will fit. To say that you can't compare picture quality between a 34 inch direct view and a 40 inch Projection TV is ridiculous. Yes, one is 6 inches bigger than the other, but do you mean to tell me that if you had the two sitting next to each other you would have no opinion. If I took you shopping with me you would just say..."nope, this one is bigger than that one...so it's anybody's guess which one looks better."


Anyway, I think the poll is unquestionably legitimate. If people want to answer it I would be interested to read their input and I think people would benefit from the discussion. Especially people who are in my boat...looking for something between 34 and 40 inches and under 2500 dollars.

-aj327

For a 34" HDTV, I would recommend the Sony 34XBR800. I have one and have had no problems whatsoever (only had it for 2 months though). CNET gave it its "Editor's Choice" award. Here is the link to the CNET review:

http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6342372-1304-8879879.html?tag=pdtl-list

I have it coupled with the HDTV OTA/Directv Sony SAT-HD200 receiver and the HD picture is awesome! Cost is $2500 from BB or CC, right at your limit.

[Ratman]

Originally posted by woodman
Cringe or disagree? I almost upchucked my breakfast when I saw you recommending this monstrosity to an unknowing and trusting soul like aj here ... for shame, for shame!

First off, congratulations on a successful year with that beast! To say that you've been fortunate (so far) is an understatement, IMO. To the best of my knowledge, it's the only TV set that's ever had to be "pulled" from the marketplace in order to try and rectify the many problems and defects! Of course, RCA tried their level best to keep this horrific episode "in the closet", and I guess they were somewhat successful at doing so, but the very fact that a set that originally had a pricetag of nearly $4K is now discounted to FAR below original dealer's cost should raise a warning flag of some sort.

I believe that you and I have been in agreement on other issues discussed here, but on this one .......... sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

Hey there Woody Dude!
C'mon! Take it easy! I am entitled to my opinion. I have had no problems or complaints with my set. I will agree that the JX1 and JX2's had problems and were recalled. Those sets were refurbed and the Internet resellers took advantage and sold them way under retail, many of those purchasers suffered.

And... there are problems with the existing sets (capacitors and diodes failing). As I stated, if you know about these issues 'up front', you know what MAY happen.

Still... where can you find a 38" widescreen with a built-in receiver at approx $1700? With the $300 extended warranty, you still are under budget. IMO, it's a deal.

Again... I have no regrets about this set.

[ibm135]

If I didn't already have a good TV I would be looking at the new Samsung DLP based RPTV's. They are thinner than the other RPTV's (about 17-18"), much lighter, and the DLP based picture is better. No burn in worries, no calibrations, etc.

[hockeyfan]

Hello,
Since I am a newbie, please forgive me for asking this question.
What is DLP & is it that much better or more expensive than RPTV's? How is there no burn in worries, or no calibrations needed?
Thanks

[57U]

There are several models of new RPTVs (rear projection).

Two of them are based on front projection units - Digital Light Processing and LCD (actually a bit of a misnomer, because it's not a Liquid Crystal Display, just liquid crystal with a lamp (the type of projector used in boardrooms). Instead of projecting onto a "screen" from the front, these units project onto a screen similar to a rear projection set.

Samsung makes them and Sony have the new Grand Wega. There is no convergence required since there are no "guns" (CRTs) to aim. (don't mix up convergence and calibration).

Both of these units are very compact and light because there is just a compact lamp and the screen, instead of the heavy, large guns. The actual "projector part" that makes the image is only about 1" in size. In DLP there are many mirrors used and in LCD, many LCDs are used.

Both of these technologies have a bit of trouble providing true blacks and they usually have "dark grey" instead.

These sets still can benfit from calibration though since the colours, contrast, etc are not accurate when they come from the manufacturer, but these are things you can typically do for yourself with a setup DVD rather than having an ISF technician required for CRT based RPTVS.

These units cost more than an equivalently sized RPTV. The Grand Wega is almost twice the price, although prices on these sets are dropping quite quickly. This year's Grand Wega is several thousand less than last year, despite it being better.

[freddyfred89]

Ratman - don't let em beat up on you.

I'm a fellow RCA F38310 owner. I've only had mine for six months, no problems so far. I was aware of the reliability problems and I still went for it, with the extended warranty. Anything goes wrong, I figured I'm covered.

This set is simply awesome. Built-in HD receiver, DirecTV receiver and, IMO, one of the best pictures I ever saw on any TV. The review here (http://www.hometheatermag.com/showarchives.cgi?95) at Home Theater Mag says it all.

[ghola]

In response to Woodman trashing this TV: I've only had mine for a few months, but I love it! No problems, and a fantastic picture! I admit the customer support was kind of, um, useless, but the price and size were just right! PQ from ps dvd is awesome, HD is spectacular! Very easy to set up, lots of inputs (only 1 component-oh well, you cant have everything!) and ready to go out of the box! I'm a fan of direct view sets, but they were never big enough to be impressive- but this one is!

[hjriver]

Originally posted by ghola
In response to Woodman trashing this TV: I've only had mine for a few months, but I love it! No problems, and a fantastic picture! I admit the customer support was kind of, um, useless, but the price and size were just right! PQ from ps dvd is awesome, HD is spectacular! Very easy to set up, lots of inputs (only 1 component-oh well, you cant have everything!) and ready to go out of the box! I'm a fan of direct view sets, but they were never big enough to be impressive- but this one is!

I think Woodman is entitled to his "opinion' as that is all it could be considerd to be. The argument would be the same if it were cars. Everybody has a favorite and everybody has one they "love to hate".

I also have a F38310. Had it for 13 months now and like it more every day. lile you, I took it out of the box, hooked it up and havent' touched it since. I just can't see paying $6000 for a piece of equipment and have to work on it from day one. I kept reading all the gyrations with set-ups, alignment problems, burn-in issues everyone had to go through with RPTV's and after comparing the PQ on many sets sold me on the F38310. Hopefullly by the time I need to upgrade the Plasma's will have come down in price. That in my opinion is the way to go but its too darn expensive right now. Just about all our viewing are the OTA Digital channels broadcast by the locals 47 miles away. I just wish the networks would put more HD on. Except for CBS the rest seem to be dragging their feet.