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View Full Version : No more DVR's? This may be bad!!!


Tryton
04-01-2005, 01:43 PM
Cablevision and Time Warner Cable are preparing to offer DVR-like services without the DVR box, executives of the two cable TV companies said yesterday.

The two services would have somewhat different features, although both would allow viewers to store programs on centrally located cable servers rather than on hard drives in each home, which is how a digital video recorder works.

Both services could be in some homes by the end of this year, the executives said in separate sessions at a Banc of America Securities media conference in Manhattan. They did not describe how the services would be priced, although the cost of the DVR box would be eliminated.

"We did consumer testing and it tests off the charts," said Time Warner Cable chief executive Glenn Britt.

Cablevision Systems would allow viewers to pick which programs to store on the server in separate storage areas called "condominiums," with a limited amount of storage space for each home, said Cablevision chief operating officer Tom Rutledge. Viewers could call up the shows any time.

Time Warner Cable would allow viewers to start an individual TV show over from the beginning, as long as the viewer presses a "start over" button before the program is over, Britt said. The company expects to test the service in Columbia, S.C., later this year.

Time Warner Cable's service would disable the fast-forward feature so viewers could not skip past commercials. That's partly to avoid complaints from the TV channels on which the programs air, Britt said. The service would work only for programs that programmers have agreed to include, because copyright laws are involved, he said.

"Our lawyers think the condo approach is not the right solution," because of copyright questions, Britt said of Cablevision's proposed service.

But Rutledge said Cablevision lawyers have reviewed copyright laws and don't see a problem, because the service would be similar to that of DVRs and so would not need permission from programmers.

One of the problems with DVR boxes, in addition to the initial cost, is that "hard drives fail," and have to be replaced eventually, Britt said.

Time Warner Cable charges $8.95 per month for DVR boxes, compared with $6.75 for a regular set-top box.

Cablevision's new DVR-like service would be somewhat like video-on-demand, which allows consumers to pick programs - from limited menus - and start them at any time.

Rutledge said that in-home DVRs are not as "elegant" a method of storing programs as central storage would be. He said DVRs have caught on partly because satellite TV services have pushed them and cable services have responded defensively by offering them as well.

Cablevision has offered them quietly, mostly to customers who are considering defecting to satellite TV.

Time Warner Cable has signed up more than 862,000 DVR box customers.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/cedailydirect/2005/0305/cedaily050331.htm#2

Tryton
04-01-2005, 01:48 PM
Im sorry, but I think that SUCKS!!!! If i have to lose my dvr, im getting a tivo!

EDD
04-01-2005, 01:51 PM
Get your own DVR. This is the one I have... It's the model 5045.

http://www.liteonamericas.com/us/index1.htm

It's the best in class and the best is good enough for me. :)

57U
04-01-2005, 01:56 PM
Network DVRs have been discussed before. They are simply an alternative, but will not "replace" the existing DVRs.

Eventually, we'll not need any DVRs, as all programmes will be on a server somewhere and we'll simply access any programme we like (probably on a PPV-like basis) with DVR-like functionality, even on live TV, up to the point that it gets live.

EDD, that "DVR" is fine, but it's not HD and probably doesn't seamlessly integrate with the IPG of a cable or Sat company..

mjones73
04-01-2005, 02:51 PM
Im sorry, but I think that SUCKS!!!! If i have to lose my dvr, im getting a tivo!

And you won't be recording HD anymore with that Tivo...

Tryton
04-01-2005, 03:07 PM
I know, But the artical said that they will disable the ff function to appese the advertizers. Thats bad.. :boo2:

gparris
04-01-2005, 03:08 PM
What with the amount of funds used for aquiring the DVRs - the 8000 SD and HD series, now the 8300 SD and HD series, I don't really think TWC or Comcast's (Motorola series) will ditch them. :cool:
Actually, most of us like the commercial-skipping feature, though it doesn't quite eliminate them, just fast-forwards them - sometimes the commercial(s) are more compelling than the show being watched and you go back to see it. I don't think the "condo" approach will sell with customers being forced to watch commercials. however.
As for the approach to not having a DVR, the current "I-Control" or On Demand feature, though a nice feature, it does not load the programs accessed as fast or efficiently as your home DVR in my experience, though the addition of this feature is nice as an added feature, but not the only feature (no DVR).
Then comes the issue of maintaining off-site (not in your own home) of what who watches what-something I believe TWC does not or cannot monitor on our current DVRs- this could be a problem doing outside-the-home "condo"-ing as per the article.
If the DVRs were to be eliminated, Tivo or some other company would come back full-force to replace such a ludicrous system, I am certain...people like the home DVR and its abilities...that is why TWC has so many subs for it now...and counting.
Nice article, though. :D

flyonthewall
04-01-2005, 03:08 PM
Off the charts? Who are the people they tested!?! They must not know what a DVR can do as compared to "on demand" type of service. I would hope, as 57U suggested, that they offer both services. I've already given up enough functionality going from TIVO to cable DVR (I have Comcast so I guess I am safe for now).
57U I think your analysis of how DVR's will evolve is probably true, but I would wonder if, given that they have control over the stored content, what type of advertising will be embedded into it, or if they will not allow you to FF thru things, etc.

logman
04-01-2005, 03:40 PM
i-control on TWC is a joke. It takes like 15 button pushes with several seconds delay between to navigate to the program you want to see. Then, if you're watching a multi episode thing like on DIY you have to do it again to watch the next episode. Plus no HD i-control.

I hope this is just an April fool's post.

Jim in Houston

Tryton
04-01-2005, 03:47 PM
I hope this is just an April fool's post.

Jim in Houston

I Wish it was...

oman321
04-01-2005, 04:33 PM
Kind'a hard to imagine this scenario. Big demand for the DVR's and for me it would be taking away to much control. Hard drives should be easy and pretty cheap to replace. If this were to happen I would have to consider a HTPC instead, I think gparris is right though, someone would step in to fill that void.

gparris
04-02-2005, 01:02 PM
If the only concern is replacing the hard drive or unit, make it easier to have a "swappable" hard drive in the DVRs or make it possible to have us buy our own DVRs - HD-capable ones (unlike the current batch of standalone Tivos) and give them CableCard capability to interface with the cable system's network as some manufacturers are currently attempting, now.
Lack of fast forward through commercials is not the only thing we would miss-what about archiving shows and movies for our own personal use-this feature would end, too.
Logman is right, I-Control is slow and clumsy...imagine that for getting to your own programmes you recorded..ugh!

mjones73
04-02-2005, 02:18 PM
Swappable hard drives in the units that they would need to send technicians out to fix vs an array of disks with redundancy located at one physical location that a handful of people could maintain, guess what's gonna win...

I don't think the cable companies are holding back others from making cable card capable DVR's either, but what's the point of putting out an expensive DVR when the average customer can just rent one, there's not a big enough market for them right now. I doubt the average customer is going to complain about this new option either, it's going to be a minority of customers.

gparris
04-02-2005, 08:54 PM
i-control on TWC is a joke. It takes like 15 button pushes with several seconds delay between to navigate to the program you want to see. Then, if you're watching a multi episode thing like on DIY you have to do it again to watch the next episode. Plus no HD i-control.

I hope this is just an April fool's post.

Jim in Houston

You are right...I-Control comparison to the DVR we now use is as slow as a 28K modem to high speed internet access...
too slow, too clumsy and too much. :boo2:

Add to that the fact the company could keep records on what you watch and record-something they claim they cannot do with our current DVRs
...no thank you.

But honestly, since in my area the DVRs are quite popular and TWC has a hard time keeping them in stock...I had to do a service call for mine.
After all the investment in DVRs, this new option will basically benefit those who prefer not to have a set top box altogether - those that use CableCard.

Our local TWC rep has responded to this saying that DVRs aren't going away, just this option will be added for customer convenience...so don't worry. :)

mjones73: "I doubt the average customer is going to complain about this new option either, it's going to be a minority of customers."
---I think the customer that is used to having a DVR is going to reject this and give up and by a Tivo or go back to his VCR...! :nono2:

mjones73
04-03-2005, 01:48 AM
"I think the customer that is used to having a DVR is going to reject this and give up and by a Tivo or go back to his VCR...!"

Neither are an option for recording HD... your only real options for HD DVR's right now are OTA units and the sat units out there. The only thing you can hope for is this fuels the need for a cable card DVR. Also, the average customer is going to look at the monthly rental fee vs the cost of a HD DVR and go with the monthly rental fee, it's the small minority of customers we are included with that will actually care. I mean what percentage of HD customers actually even archive off their DVR's, last I checked, D-VHS decks weren't exactly flying off the shelves.

gparris
04-03-2005, 03:01 AM
Once the HD DVDs or BluRay discs for recording start hitting the shelves, they will record HD and archive, just like I do with my SD DVD recorder for nonHD shows and movies.
TiVo in HD for Directv exists and I know several who have them.
The rental cost of a Cable HD DVR is smaller in comparison and will stay a long time and the cable companies will keep both condo and DVR for customer use and retrieval.

Ratman
04-03-2005, 09:33 AM
Well... IMO, don't put the cart before the horse. Although you may be correct about HDDVD/BRD and it's potential recording capabilities, it may not be cost justifiable. Blank media may be expensive and even the projected 30 or 50 gig space is quite limited for archiving "multiple" HD programs.

Just my opinion...

mjones73
04-03-2005, 08:49 PM
I'd have to agree on that one, how much were the original DVD burners when they came out? How long did it take after DVD's came out before they were even available?

           


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