View Full Version : 360 on a HD tube tv
pettman1970
08-14-2005, 09:22 PM
Hi all I have a question for anyone who has more knowledge than me. My HD set is the Sony 34hs420. It is my understanding that this set is 480p and 1080i with all 720p signals being upconverted to 1080i. With the standard that microsoft has set that all games must be at least 720p my question is how will resolution look upconverted to 1080i? 720p is a 60 frame per second format and 1080i is a 30 frames per second format. What will this reduction in FPS do to the look of the games? I'm pretty new to the HD world so any help on this matter would be much appreciated!
Matt27
08-15-2005, 01:26 AM
1080i can also be 60fps too.
Also 720p is only a minumum requirement, all games will be made to support 1080i and 720p.The xbox360 will have a HQ scaler that will scale the system to any resolution you require.
Don't worry though, your simply not just getting a 720p image upconverted to 1080i, you will get a native 1080i signal if you select it in the xbox360's dashboard:)
Since you and me have the same sony set, our best resolution is 1080i, so it's best to use that, and vice versa if you have a 720p set.
pettman1970
08-15-2005, 07:31 PM
Thanks for the reply friend. My main concern was how an interlaced signal would look over a progressive one. I know that 480p looks so much better than 480i. Since my tv cant show a 720p signal I just dont know the difference in the two...(720p over 1080i) :whistle:
lancejustice
08-30-2005, 12:00 PM
I have posted this question in another thread, hope it is okay to mention here. Tv's that do not support 720p, will they upconvert games that are in that res to 1080i. I've noticed a lot of tv's do not seem to support 720p, not sure why. thanks.
There are some TVs that do not "accept" 720P signals. If you feed those TVs a 720P signal, you'll see nothing.
Why? To save some money since all STBs convert signals to 1080i, so it only affects a select few games.
There are some TVs that do not "accept" 720P signals. If you feed those TVs a 720P signal, you'll see nothing.
Why? To save some money since all STBs convert signals to 1080i, so it only affects a select few games.
R U saying some tv's wil not play xbox360 720p games in HD(I know it pisses you off when people rewrite what you say but you are confusing to some of us simple minded ones) is that why that wire package includes the yellow rca wire.
If the TV doesn't accept 720P, I believe you can set the box to output 480P instead of 720P.
The "yellow" (composite) cable is only capable of 480i (actually only about 400 lines of resolution) so you should still use the HD pack for best quality.
I'm not a gamer, so perhaps a gamer can explain further.
lancejustice
08-30-2005, 04:09 PM
That was kinda my fear. If I buy a tv that does not support 720p, which it appears is what most 360 games will be, then I will have to downgrade to 480p instead of up to 1080i. That being the case, I guess it is worth the extra money for those that accept all formats. So far I know Sony, and Toshiba do, but does anyone know of any others? Once again, newbie so some of what I am saying might just be plain wrong. Thanks
Most Hitachis do. Some Pannys and Mits do not. It's very model specific and you cannot generalize based on manufacturer.
kevinw
08-30-2005, 06:35 PM
That was kinda my fear. If I buy a tv that does not support 720p, which it appears is what most 360 games will be, then I will have to downgrade to 480p instead of up to 1080i. That being the case, I guess it is worth the extra money for those that accept all formats. So far I know Sony, and Toshiba do, but does anyone know of any others? Once again, newbie so some of what I am saying might just be plain wrong. Thanks
I would bet that most of the 360's games will output both 108i and 720p.
Th eowrding was a minimum of 720p was mandatory for the games.
lancejustice
08-30-2005, 07:16 PM
Okay, I hear a lot about native res stuff. Do most crt's have a native res of 1080i, in which case it would be okay to get them for the 360, although not necessarily for the stuff on xbox right now? I keep going back and forth as to whether I should get a crt or go with a smaller lcd, or maybe dlp, etc. I don't really know the difference between the projection stuff, but I am going to do some reading here and fix that. Does anyone else have opinions on what would be the best hd tv to get for around 1,000? Thanks
Do most crt's have a native res of 1080iALL Consumer CRT-based HDTVs have a native resolution of 1080i only for incoming HD signals.
ALL Consumer CRT-based HDTVs have a native resolution of 1080i only for incoming HD signals.
so my 30hf83 should take the 720p and upconvert it to 1080i.will this cause any fps shortages,at 720p MS says 60fps.
lancejustice
08-31-2005, 08:31 AM
I have been told when you go from 720p up to 1080i, it moves down to 30 frames per second. If a game is made with 1080i as a standard resolution, would it still be 30 fps or is that only if it has to be converted?
Thanks.
Matt27
08-31-2005, 12:49 PM
30fps and 24fps is equated to film, 60fps can be done for 1080i as well for videogaming, but probably not film.
720p is only a minumum requirement so don't fret.
All xbox360 games will support 1080i and 720p, use whatever resolution your tv displays natively.
I read today at www.planetxbox360.com that the 360 will have HDMI and and to get true HD your tv must support this. I have DVI but MS is also packaging componant wires won't componant give you a HD signal as well??
Although component video will give you HD with (most) current equipment, future equipment such as HD-DVD players may either not have component video outputs, or the resolution on those units may be down-rezzed on CV.
Since these are not yet available, this is conjecture to some extent, although you will note that most upconverting DVD players only allow the upconversion via a secure digital video connection
in the artical it states your tv must have HDCP (it says there is color issues and HD downgrading resolution if you use a converter) do DVI tv's have this or is this a HDMI only thing.I believe these problems will occur when the 360 has a HD-DVD drive so will we have to buy new tv's when this happens.
lancejustice
09-01-2005, 08:30 AM
So this may be like beating this topic on the head with a stick, but you are saying, the 360 will only display hd games if you have hdmi? Otherwise it won't? The more info the console companies release, the worse it gets. Don't they realize by up forcing all specs, they are going to lose out on customers who just can't afford, the latest and greatest. I know hdmi is becoming more prevalent (sp), but there are many tv's still without it.
Matt27
09-01-2005, 01:51 PM
You will get HDTV with component, i'm guessing it's only for HD DVD movie playback that you won't get HD resolutions on component, but will with HDMI later on when they add that feature.
tcrews
09-01-2005, 02:59 PM
I read today at www.planetxbox360.com that the 360 will have HDMI and and to get true HD your tv must support this. I have DVI but MS is also packaging componant wires won't componant give you a HD signal as well??
The XBox360 will only support component output for HD. It has a digital to analog converter that accepts the signal from the graphics chip and outputs it to your TV/Monitor/Display device. There will not be HDMI or DVI outputs available on the Xbox360 unless Microsoft replaces the video out chip on the motherboard to something that also outputs a digital signal. You have your standards of composite, S-video and for then for HD you have component.
The Xbox will use that same output chip to "scale" the video to an appropriate display (if you have a standard 480i TV it'll scale it to 480i, if you have a 1080i TV it'll scale it to 1080i and if you have a 720p TV it'll scale it to 720p). You'll choose acceptable formats in the dashboard like you do on the current Xbox. If your TV accepts (not displays but accepts) all the formats you can just choose them all. If it only accepts 1080i and 480i/p you choose those but don't select the 720p mode. Your games will run exactly the same on all display modes.......with HD displays looking better than SD displays naturally.
XBOX360 only supports component outputs and if an HDMI "cable" is produced for it, the current design still only allows for analog output so the cable itself would have to handle converting from analog to digital, etc....basically more of an adapter than a cable.
Tom Crews
lancejustice
09-02-2005, 08:26 AM
Thanks, that explains a lot. So if your tv only does 1080i, you said it will play exactly the same, does that mean it will do 60fps or only 30fps. Also, at BB last night, I saw a lot of projection tv's. Can anyone tell me the pq compared to crt when gaming. I like the bigger screens, but not if everything is going to get washed out and be hard to see. I think these are all standard projections, not the newer dlp ones. Thanks.
tcrews
09-02-2005, 09:44 AM
Look at it this way and take the "game console" out of the picture. All CRT based Hi-def TV's use a native resolution of 1080i for HD programming, regardless if the signal coming in is 720p or 1080i. The internals of the TV convert any 720p signal to a 1080i signal for display. Do your TV shows run slower? No....because the signal coming to the set is being converted, the hardware generating the signal didn't even know. Same for the other way....LCD/DLP/Plasma TV's tend to have a native display of 720p so convert all 1080i signals to 720p to display. Do TV programs run faster......again no.
The XBOX360 will generate a game at 720p if the developer follows the minimum requirements. If you have a CRT based HD tv you can only display 1080i signals so either the electronics in your TV will convert the 720p input to 1080i display or you can use the scaler chip (electronics) inside the XBOX360 to convert the image to 1080i.
Since most people buying the Xbox360 will have SD-tvs....the scaler inside the Xbox360 will have to convert from 720p/1080i to 480i. Games on SD-tvs are not going to run faster.
Tom
Matt27
09-02-2005, 11:39 PM
I'd be carefull with gaming on a RP CRT, they are very prone to burn in than a regualer crt tube set.
IMO videogames look better on a direct view crt set than a RP CRT set.After having experiance with both.playing on a big screen tv can be too much on the3 eyes and may cause head aches or make you want to vomit because of the motion.
Videogames on huge screens do not work well...
tcrews
09-04-2005, 12:01 PM
I disagree. I've been gaming on RP CRT sets for over 12 years with zero burn in issues. Burn in can happen but you'd pretty much have to put the game on pause and leave it on for days and days to get it. With the multi-color, high resolution and fast moving displays of todays games burn in isn't as prevalent (like when you had a big blocky 16 color display where most of the background remained static).
Plus, gaming on a 57" TV rules, especially in HD! :)
I'd be carefull with gaming on a RP CRT, they are very prone to burn in than a regualer crt tube set.
IMO videogames look better on a direct view crt set than a RP CRT set.After having experiance with both.playing on a big screen tv can be too much on the3 eyes and may cause head aches or make you want to vomit because of the motion.
Videogames on huge screens do not work well...
Matt27
09-04-2005, 02:57 PM
Yeah but size can be an issue, it can make you get headaches or dizziness.
Ever play GTA:Vice city on a big screen, then you would know what i mean.
lancejustice
09-05-2005, 11:51 AM
Okay, so games would look better on a crt than a projection? I wasn't thinking of going huge, somewhere in the 40ish range. It just seems like it would be really cool to play games on a big screen, but I kinda understand the dizziness that could come from playing a big screen, particularly a shooter where you move all around. Also, I went to CC over the weekend, and they have some lcd monitors that look fairly nice and big, but I think they are some sort of lcd projection? The sony G vega's look nice, but just out of my price range.
pettman1970
09-05-2005, 10:47 PM
Wow this topic was dead for days and now it explodes! Cool discussion though and some of the posts have been informative.
pcoffman
09-06-2005, 08:08 PM
not sure how it will differ but we play our current xbox on our 55inch and havent had a problem...but it may very apon person.
I think it's just a matter of some people get car sick ,sea sick etc. some don't.
With the inclusion of HD cables as standard, Itagaki hopes that people will end up making the move to HDTV. He suggests standard CRT over other types, devoting a lengthy rant to his displeasure with LCD televisions. Itagaki states that Team Ninja has "flagship class" LCD televisions throughout its offices, and he's not impressed with any of them. The problem, he states, isn't so much with response time, but with inaccurate color. Combine that with the high prices, and he comes to the conclusion: "buying a CRT is, as a gamer, a wise choice. A comment by Tomonbu Itagaki developer the of D.O.A series.
Ramone
10-01-2005, 11:46 PM
The XBox360 will only support component output for HD. It has a digital to analog converter that accepts the signal from the graphics chip and outputs it to your TV/Monitor/Display device. There will not be HDMI or DVI outputs available on the Xbox360 unless Microsoft replaces the video out chip on the motherboard to something that also outputs a digital signal.
Are you sure? That really sucks if true. I was under the impression there would be an HDMI cable available after launch. Hard to imagine Microsoft being so backward in regard to HDTV.
Well anyway there will be a VGA cable available also for HD output for monitors and HDTVs that will accept it. So component won't be the only option.
I've read an interview from a MS tech guy at the intel show a few weeks back and he said the 360 will have a HDMI cable next year.
macht
10-03-2005, 09:16 AM
Hello,
This seems to be the most active topic about HDTV and videogames so I thought I made add a question here about the Playstation 3.
It is my understanding that Blu-ray will require security measures that revolve around HDMI for Blu-ray movie play back. This would leave me to believe that you can't watch Blu-ray movies on a TV that doesn't have HDMI. Is this accurate?
I realize that the Playstation 3 will support other options besides HDMI for output, but I was lead to believe that only via HDMI will you be able to watch Blu-ray movies due to its extra security :( ..can anyone confirm or deny this?
I was looking to buy a cheaper HDTV with hopes that I could still use the Playstation 3 to play Blu-ray movies in 1080i and such. Any help would be appreciated on the topic. Thanks for your time. :hyper:
Ramone
10-03-2005, 12:23 PM
It's really too early to say for sure. But most likely you're correct and Blue-Ray movie playback will only work over HDMI. Of course the games should be playable in Hi-def over component so there's always a small chance movies will be too. Firewire might be another option, can't remember if the PS3 has that output.
I think almost all newer HDTVs come with an HDMI input don't they? A DVI input will work as well, with an adapter.
Matt27
10-03-2005, 01:31 PM
Yes that's true if you want to watch blu-ray movies you will have to use HDMI, but i think it's different for videogames in that case you can use component connection.
Does'nt bother me since my tv has an HDMI input that is unused,and am hoping the PS3 fills in that input.
It's really too early to say for sure. But most likely you're correct and Blue-Ray movie playback will only work over HDMI. Of course the games should be playable in Hi-def over component so there's always a small chance movies will be too. Firewire might be another option, can't remember if the PS3 has that output.
I think almost all newer HDTVs come with an HDMI input don't they? A DVI input will work as well, with an adapter.
don't you guys have a ps3 section :rofl2: any how ,everywhere I've read as long as your DVI TV is HDCP compliante and as far as I know all HDMI are. they will play Blue-Ray (beta max repeat I hope) or HD-DVD
Ratman
10-03-2005, 07:16 PM
don't you guys have a ps3 section ?
http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/forumdisplay.php?f=481 :whistle:
Ramone
10-06-2005, 10:18 PM
Someone from another fourm found this link to what appears to be a 3rd party HDMI cable for Xbox 360. No details or shipping date though.
Pelican HDMI Cable (http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4056328)
what about an Optical outlet ,will the Xbox360 support DTS???
tcrews
10-15-2005, 03:32 PM
what about an Optical outlet ,will the Xbox360 support DTS???
Yes, on the HD connector they have an optical out (you need to supply the cable)....just like they do for the current X-box's HD pack.
Tom
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/ this is the HD cable for 360 it says it supports 5.1 not 5.1and dts also don't see any hook up for optical, also has some dvd specs here http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/xbox360/physics.htm
tcrews
10-25-2005, 09:02 PM
Read the description on the first link...
Play high quality audio with the included Stereo connection or utilize the Optical Audio port for digital sound.
You have to supply the optical audio cable, there is a "port" on the adapter for this.
Tom Crews
Read the description on the first link...
You have to supply the optical audio cable, there is a "port" on the adapter for this.
Tom Crews
Thanx man I read to fast and had a panic attack,I'm replacing my dvd with the 360 and LOVE the DTS sound. what did you think of the dvd specs,screen dvd's in 720p what does that mean?
