HD-DVD claims the brand advantage

[rewjr]

PC ADVISOR -

Forget the optical format wars – the research battle is in full swing. And it’s all in a name

IT Forum 2005
Never underestimate the power of a name. That's the single greatest point I took from a recent study offered up in support of HD-DVD, one of two competing formats in the race for a next-generation disc format with the capacity required for high-definition content.

article continued see link -

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122211,00.asp

The Walmart crowd will decide this battle :)

[gparris]

The "Walmart crowd" has to informed by trained people who know know the product, first (NOT!) Think again.

The "Walmart crowd" buys HDTV sets (our forum members, excluded) with composite hookups thinking they got HD, anyway. :D

So will HD-DVD players be sold/setup any better?

Of course not.

You have to know what HD is to buy the player, first.

As far as the actual name, "Blu-ray", does not translate to the public as a high definition DVD. :( (What marketing "genius" thought that name up?)

HD-DVD says it all with its name, so who will relate to "Blu-ray" as a high definition DVD?

Consumers will say:
Blu-ray?
Is that some kind of a fish?

Very few, unless its folks like those in our forum who know better.
Unless there is massive marketing campaign going on with Blu-ray.
it is going to be an unknown name out there to the general public, "Walmart crowd", included.

My backround may be scientific with a degree in economics and major in marketing, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the loss of sales due to use of the name "Blu-ray" to the HD-buying public to make it a success in the marketplace and the format war going on.

(Maybe they should have called the DVDs in the beginning, "Red-ray" - yeah, that would have worked!)

What Toshiba and Sony should do is band together, end the fighting, call it "HD-DVD by Blu-ray" or some slick marketing hype like that, sell the discs with SD on the other side and quickly gain market share...but its not going to happen that way, is it?

[rewjr]

"sell the discs with SD on the other side and quickly gain market share...but its not going to happen that way, is it?"

Actually HD-DVD has hybrid disks ready to go for the Blockbuster crowd -

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/pr1002.htm

And yet another reason the SmithSonyian institute keeps growing :)

[zdman]

Sony will lose this battle because of ignorance. Sony still believes they lost the Beta/VHS battle because VHS could hold more video. They lost the battle because one beta tape could not hold a long movie. As long as the new DVD can hold a full length (up to 3 hour) movie who cares how much data it can hold. I never watch all the extras on a disc anyway. I predict the first one to market with a decent player will win this war and right now that appears to be HD-DVD. Sony's only chance is releasing the playstation 3 with blue ray dvd's installed, and I am not convinced there will be a blue ray player in time for the release of the PS 3.

[soze]

yea, this has been discussed ad nauseum...

search for the thread ...

here...

http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showthread.php?t=21236&highlight=blu-ray

[potisyourfriend]

"sell the discs with SD on the other side and quickly gain market share...but its not going to happen that way, is it?"

Actually HD-DVD has hybrid disks ready to go for the Blockbuster crowd -

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/pr1002.htm

And yet another reason the SmithSonyian institute keeps growing :)



If HD-DVD can get 45MB then how is Blu-Ray so much better?

[EDD]

Blu-Ray is NOT better! It's more costly to manufacturer and less backward compatible to current DVD technology.

Most people don't have a clue and are so brainwashed (you get what you pay for?) by Sony that they believe it's better because it's priced higher (over priced) than the rest.

HD-DVD will clearly win because when players hit the market next year you'll see that big price difference in players and disc's

So what is everyone going to buy when you get the same performance from both standards and HD-DVD ends up several hundreds of dollars cheaper... da :o)

[AV_Integrated]

Blu-Ray has a clear market and manufacturer advantage.

While Sony is on the board for Blu-Ray, don't confuse it as the owner of Blu-Ray. There are 17 major manufacturers on that board including Apple, Warner Brothers, Pioneer, Samsung, Disney, etc. Sony is just a major player. Unlike any proprietary format Sony has put out, this one is already going to be made by half a dozen companies and EVERY major studio is putting out movies on Blu-Ray.

The PS3 will be able to deliver the HD player to a million homes in a matter of months, while HD-DVD will be selling players for $1,000.00 Just what the Wal-Mart crowd will be flocking towards right? Heck, the ONLY HD player Wal-Mart will be selling is the PS3 packaged version.

No, this format war is more or less already over and the technology that was designed from the ground up to be newer and better overall is the one that has already taken 3/4 of the pie. HD-DVD missed it's two biggest chances - be included on the X-Box 360 and release before Christmas 2005. Neither happenned and it looks less and less likely that it will ever be released at the rate things are moving forward.

[Ratman]

Time will tell... no one has ANY advantage until hardware and software is available to the consumer. They will be the ones to 'tip the scale'.

[potisyourfriend]

Blu-Ray has a clear market and manufacturer advantage.

While Sony is on the board for Blu-Ray, don't confuse it as the owner of Blu-Ray. There are 17 major manufacturers on that board including Apple, Warner Brothers, Pioneer, Samsung, Disney, etc. Sony is just a major player. Unlike any proprietary format Sony has put out, this one is already going to be made by half a dozen companies and EVERY major studio is putting out movies on Blu-Ray.

The PS3 will be able to deliver the HD player to a million homes in a matter of months, while HD-DVD will be selling players for $1,000.00 Just what the Wal-Mart crowd will be flocking towards right? Heck, the ONLY HD player Wal-Mart will be selling is the PS3 packaged version.

No, this format war is more or less already over and the technology that was designed from the ground up to be newer and better overall is the one that has already taken 3/4 of the pie. HD-DVD missed it's two biggest chances - be included on the X-Box 360 and release before Christmas 2005. Neither happenned and it looks less and less likely that it will ever be released at the rate things are moving forward.



Where did you find the price of the HD-DVD player at? This technology whether it be Blu-Ray or HD-DVD won't be cheap and WalMart shoppers aren't the demographic upon release... It's the hard core HT people... And then once prices drop after awhile people will know and be famailar with the name DVD and be comfortable to buy a player that they know has worked wonderfully in the past and get HD-DVD.... Just because Sony has a PS3 with it (supposedly) doesn't mean non-gamers will buy it just for the Blu-Ray player.. FYI most consoles that play DVDs look crappy.........

[AV_Integrated]

Where did you find the price of the HD-DVD player at? This technology whether it be Blu-Ray or HD-DVD won't be cheap and WalMart shoppers aren't the demographic upon release...
That's based upon early industry estimates and the prices of first generation DVD players when they were released. Could be that they sell for $50.00 from day 1, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I also agree - Wal-Mart shoppers aren't going to rush out to buy one. But, they are going to rush out to buy a PS3 - regardless of price. X-Box 360 could have sold out easily at $500 or $600 per unit - which is where the PS3 may fall at.

Will videophiles run out and buy a PS3?

Yes.

Videophiles ran out to buy the X-Box 360 so they could game in HD. Non-videophiles keep asking on board after board after board about upgrading from regular TV to HDTV so they can get the most out of their 360. All indications are that the PS3 IS for the Wal-Mart crowds, which means that Blu-Ray will be in those homes. That is common sense - and something that HD-DVD has missed out on.

I do agree that hardware talks and vaporware walks... But, I don't think it is first to market with hardware and software.

It is first to market who SELLS hardware and has a LOT of software. HD-DVD isn't going to even be close in this regard, especially since they promised a pre-Christmas release much earlier this year, and now have a total of what is it??? Oh yeah, zero - titles. No hardware, no software, nothing. That's a pretty weak start from a design that uses a lower level technology.

Really - I don't care that much though - I think Blu-Ray has a clear advantage over HD-DVD right now since they keep getting HD-DVDs studios on board with them and HD-DVD has failed to be on the market or a part of X-Box 360. But, in the end, I won't buy a stand alone player for a few years. I will only buy the PS3 which means that even if Blu-Ray somehow falls flat on its face, I will still have a killer gaming system to enjoy.

[Ratman]

Put games aside...

It's what the average consumer is willing to spend when the software and hardware is available and affordable.

Bottom line is that if BRD's cost $10 more than HDVD's... guess what??? If the HD-DVD players cost $250 and BR players cost $450... what will J6P be buying?

I love it when everyone 'spouts' that Blu-Ray is the best and is a clear winner when there's nothing on which to base that statement.

Again... time will tell when the hardware and software becomes available.

[AV_Integrated]

Bottom line is that if BRD's cost $10 more than HDVD's... guess what??? If the HD-DVD players cost $250 and BR players cost $450... what will J6P be buying?
Neither, because he already has a PS3 in his home.

It amazes me how easily people blow off the impact that the PS3 will have on this format battle as if it doesn't exist. When DVD players were 100 bucks, I still had a few friends whose only DVD player was their PS2. For me, who actually is willing to drop a grand on the new technology if I had to, I will still just get a PS3 and use that.

Yes, there are potential additional price issues, but when the movie you want is only available on Blu-Ray, then what does it matter that HD-DVD is a few bucks less? Not sure really - it may matter, but that hasn't been the driving force in format wars. Content, availability, and access. PS3 will ensure access, so content will follow and availability will actually be tough for the first few months of PS3 release.

I look forward to this next year for sure though! I'm also perfectly fine to be wrong. I claim no crystal ball and if I'm wrong, I will give respect to those who called me out on my theories. I definitely am outspoken on them. :)

[Ratman]

I did ask to "put games aside".

There are many that don't and won't own PS2/3, Xbox, et.al.

Secondly if I did, I'm sure that I'd still purchase a 'higher' quality standalone player for playback.

In my opinion... gamers are not the driving force of DVD movie and DVD player sales.

I also am outspoken, to say the least. :)

[potisyourfriend]

If anyone has ever used the Xbox, PS2 or 360 would know a stand alone player is always the best way to go.. Ok maybe not the best (HTPC) but better out of the 2...

[AV_Integrated]

People like to gloss over the PS3, as if it doesn't matter.

Gaming simply can't be left aside - it is like, let's talk about God, but lets leave religion out of it. ;) In the end, it is going to be about religion.

DVD had been out for a while before PS2 was released w/DVD. Many, many people already owned DVD players that could kick the PS2 video to the curb. But, when Blu-Ray comes along - it is merely conjecture to claim that any other players will blow it away - especially at that price.

I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that PS3 will outsell stand alone players in the first year at a rate that exceeds 20 to 1.

Leave gaming out of it? No, I don't think that makes sense at all. Gaming is going to be the crux on which Blu-Ray will own the market within 12 months. Manufacturers are saying in public "We support anything - either is great." - But, there is little support by the industry when the spotlight isn't on them.

Could I be wrong? Sure! But comparing PS2 to DVD when DVD had been out for years, would not be accurate. Especially since a new DVD player was far less than a PS2.

The PS3 is expected to be less than either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray stand alone players. And, while you can't be sure either format will be the 'winner' - you can be sure that the PS3 will be supported for around 5 years or so.

Some serious HD enthusiasts may spend their money on a gamble, but the PS3 isn't a gamble. You know it'll be there years later.

Which means that if I had 100 grand to wager - my money would be on Blu-Ray.

[Ratman]

The tail does not wag the dog. Playing DVD movies on a game console is nothing more than a side benefit.

[EDD]

Time will tell... no one has ANY advantage until hardware and software is available to the consumer. They will be the ones to 'tip the scale'.
The above statement is the bottom line.

It does not matter who is backing who. It does not matter what studios are in which camp. It does not matter what game console you have nor what it's specs are. It does not matter what hardware or software manufacturers are backing and it does not matter which technology is superior.

Unless your fresh out of diapers, you should have learned a lesson from the VHS/Beta history which will indeed play out once again here.

HD-DVD players will be less expensive to buy. HD-DVD discs will be less expensive to mass produce and thus less expensive to buy. HD-DVD can't loose.

:stop: Nothing else matters! The consumer will choose HD-DVD and Toshiba WILL release the spec to china for manufacturing. The moment this happens (if it even needs to happen) will spell the end for BluRay. Toshiba is holding ALL THE CARDS! It's not possible for them (HD-DVD) to loose this battle having China as their Ace up their sleeve.

So go ahead any buy your BluRay PS3 console and you'll be playing right into Sony's death trap. You'll get to pay more (get raped) for your games. You will NOT be able to share your games with your friends since they'll be locked to your specific player. I'll be ROFL :rofl2: at evey uninformed consumer going out to buy from Sony. Sony has always relied on the stupidity of misinformed consumers and it's clear there are no shortage of victims. :rmoon2: Thus the reason for their success.

If it costs more, it must be better... LOL

The software providers (studios) want to sell movies and could care less about which format the DVD's are so they will do what it takes to sell product. Bottom line here is EVERY movie will be available on HD-DVD no different than ALL movies are on DVD now. Gee.... this is the way it truned out for VHS also. Duh!

[AV_Integrated]

Wow, some strong opinions and willingness to ignore available information from some people.

Hope the same verbal people are just as verbal a year or two from now. If it even takes that long.

[deckard]

If it even takes that long.

It won't... :smokin:

[gparris]

The whole scenario regarding the format is just crazy.
For me, I don't care which wins, only that is there will be just one format, not two. :D
HD-DVD sounds just like that: High Definition DVDs.
Blu-ray means a fish to me...doesn't connect.
How many gigabits do you need for even a 3 hour high definition DVD movie? Most of mine are anywhere from 90 or so minutes to less than 2-1/2 hours and I have several hundred.
If HD DVDs combine the standard def on side and the HD on the other, to eliminate the need for duplication (and retail shelf space), why don't they provide a second disc like they do anyway for the extras - for both standard and HD sides?
Standard def extras if combined with the HD side on one disc (as I think HD DVD are planned)
will/could (and sometimes do) require a second disc, anyway.
Given that scenario, the HD DVDs will win out, including a familiar named product, IMO.

[AV_Integrated]

FYI: Blu-Ray will also be able to offer both SD (normal DVD) and HD versions of the movie on the same disc. Unlike HD-DVD, they will actually be able to put the SD version on the same side as the HD version so that you still have a label on one side of the disc, and the movie on the other side, so it will play back in either a regular DVD player or a Blu-Ray player.

It is very unlikely to have a second disc in either packaging and the amount of space taken up on the disc will likely be maximized for the best quality of the content regardless of format. Which means, it is possible that Blu-Ray may have a subtle overall better image, or more extras etc. for consumers.

[Ratman]

FYI: ...they will actually be able to put the SD version on the same side as the HD version so that you still have a label on one side of the disc, and the movie on the other side, so it will play back in either a regular DVD player or a Blu-Ray player.

And how is that a benefit? Why would someone pay more for a BRD for SD content?

Also, assuming there were no price increase, why is flipping to side "B" for SD so bad. Many have been doing that for many years (widescreen on one side/full screen on the other).

IMO... that's not a valid point.

[gparris]

Many of my DVDs have a side for widescreen and the other side for pan and scan and it doesn't bother me.
Except for the really small print on the DVD label giving me the disc title and in this case, the picture format rather than the definition format.

[AV_Integrated]

And how is that a benefit? Why would someone pay more for a BRD for SD content?

IMO... that's not a valid point.
Dang - your arguementative.

It was brought up as a point that HD-DVD could have a standard size and a HD side for playback on existing DVD players.

I was just pointing out that Blu-Ray offers this as well and they are able to incorporate it into a single side so you don't lose your label.

It is a valid point that if you own a movie in HD format, it would be nice to still be able to take it to a friends house a play it back on their regular DVD player. So both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD offer this ability.

Blu-Ray just puts it on a single side which may not mean much, but it can help reduce production costs and only leaves people with one side of the disc that could be damaged instead of two sides they have to be careful of.

You may not think that is a 'valid point' - but then again, you think higher bandwidth, more storage space, and support by a gaming system that will be in a million homes isn't a 'valid point' either. :nono2:

[Ratman]

Dang - your arguementative.

The door swings both ways...
Your points are understood, but not showstoppers.

No matter, neither has hit the shelves and debate is senseless as to which will survive. :whistle:

[LeeS]

No matter, neither has hit the shelves and debate is senseless as to which will survive. :whistle:

I agree, I'm just sitting back, reading what I can and waiting for the dust to settle.

This is an interesting read:

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=175400242&pgno=1

Lee

[EDD]

It is a valid point that if you own a movie in HD format, it would be nice to still be able to take it to a friends house a play it back on their regular DVD player. So both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD offer this ability.Wrong! Open mouth, insert foot... Sony has a patent on HD copy protection technology to prevent the owner of their disk to "take it to a friends house a play it back on their regular DVD player". This CPT will marry all disc's to a single specific machine (the one it's first inserted in, thus enabling the disk useless in any other player. It's OK though, just ignore my rants and give Sony a big kiss and continue to rush out and buy their products.

If you want to take a game over to a "friends house" you get two choices.... you haul your player with you or buy a second, virgin copy of the same game (I'm sure this would be Sony recommendation) to give it to your friend so you guys can hang out a play on his blu-ray machine and be good Sony brand loyal consumers together.

Sony does not gave a damn about it's customers and will continue (not begin) to treat it's buying and paying customers as pirates exactly as they have been doing in the past.

[AV_Integrated]

Wrong! Open mouth, insert foot... Sony has a patent on HD copy protection technology to prevent the owner of their disk to "take it to a friends house a play it back on their regular DVD player".
Wow - I tried sticking my foot in my mouth but found your foot there and in your own already.

Sony does not own Blu-Ray, and while they are considering different copyright protection schemes, the one you mentioned is...

1. Not generally believed to be one of the more likely versions used.

2. Not an accurate description at all of what the copyright protection would be capable of doing.

There is no way to lock a disc to a machine and nobody on the board would support such a concept. Blu-Ray will likely be using managed copy protection so that the disc could be put onto your home network, and the disc itself most defintely can be moved from player to player with no issues.

The only more serious copy protection potential landmine I have heard of is that if a person tries to play a copied disc in their player, it could render the player useless until factory serviced/reset. This also doesn't have popular support on the Blu-Ray board.

Don't confuse 'Blu-Ray' with 'Sony'. They are one of 17 companies on the Blu-Ray board. Panasonic, HP, Apple, Dell, etc. Sony definitely has a unique look at things, but in the end, they don't get the (only) final say on the spec that is official. It must be decided by a committee.

I'm not sure where you got this piece of information from, but it definitely is not from the Blu-Ray official disc site. Maybe off a pro HD-DVD forum without any proof?

[wifeB8]

A company that has come up with the following schemes……………….
Betamax…………..
Minidisc……………
MicroMV…………..
Atrac……………….
UMD……………….
Memory Stick……..

…………..doesn’t exactly elicit an abundance of confidence when they are trying to push the next generation DVD. It’s funny how a couple of months ago all the pundits declared Blu-ray the winner even though the format was far from being finalized.
Waiting anxiously for CES 06. Blu-ray will probably confirm the rumor about their North American June launch.
In addition, it will be interesting to see if HD-DVD comes out with specific dates for their launch since from all accounts AACS is the delaying factor, and it know appears it's been finalized opening the door for HD DVD to proceed ahead of Blu-ray.

[AV_Integrated]

Why do people treat Blu-Ray as a Sony invention? Yes, they are a major player, but this is unlike any prior Sony release - ever. The very first drive will actually be released by Pioneer in January.

People are sounding very poorly informed if they continue to call Blu-Ray a Sony product.

Heck - look at the last major push for HD-DVD - Might as well call THAT a Microsoft product now. Most people believe that the only reason HD-DVD might have any hope at all is because of funding and the push by Micro$oft.

[Ratman]

Because they are THE major player with the development, the $$ and thus, the muscle.

Note the title:
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=25453

Note the last paragraph:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=7445

Most of the world and media refers to BR as a "Sony" product, which IMO is primarily driven by Sony.

If Sony backed out of the project, do you really think that the other corporations will remain in the consortium? :)

Look at it this way... if BR is a success, they will be in the forefront to take all of the credit. If it fails, they'll blame everyone/everthing else but themselves.

[EDD]

Wow - I tried sticking my foot in my mouth but found your foot there and in your own already.

Sony does not own Blu-Ray, and while they are considering different copyright protection schemes, the one you mentioned is...

1. Not generally believed to be one of the more likely versions used.

2. Not an accurate description at all of what the copyright protection would be capable of doing.

There is no way to lock a disc to a machine and nobody on the board would support such a concept. Blu-Ray will likely be using managed copy protection so that the disc could be put onto your home network, and the disc itself most definitely can be moved from player to player with no issues. Oh really... You might want to follow the leg that foot's attached to and see which body it's connected too. :hah33: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=%28Kutaragi.INZZ.+AND+Sony.ASNM.%29&OS=in/Kutaragi+AND+an/Sony&RS=%28IN/Kutaragi+AND+AN/Sony and then come back and tell me it's not possible or not accurate. We'll soon see what's in store for the PS3 victums.

and here... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27568 So would you like to retract your statements above? :rofl2: Don't bother, I'm sure you're in denial.

Also if you think, for one second, Sony would not proceed with this copy protection patent because "it's not popular" as you say then you need to take a look at what they have already done. http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=996

This clearly demonstrates to me, once again, that they could care less about what's popular and will go to the nth degree to protect their property from you (the pirate, the enemy, the bad consumer who purchased their product).

[AV_Integrated]

No - I said it has not been proposed to be part of the Blu-Ray specification. Whether it is possible for a game system to record specific information and a central database tied to the Internet or recorders to do something to the disc is not something that I doubt is possible.

I am saying if you had the first clue about what was actually going on with the Blu-Ray Disc white papers you would know that you are spewing hatred of a company in place of actual knowledge. I don't agree with things Sony has done with items and they very aggresively persue copyright protection policies. Some of this may be fought in court, but it has little to do with Blu-Ray Disc and movies and data. The PS3 is 100% Sony and their games fall into that spec. There is nothing listed that deals with Blu-Ray movies or Blu-Ray data discs.

Blowing smoke into a room doesn't make a fire start. But, when you go in shouting 'FIRE! FIRE!' you are bound to stir up some unneccesary trouble. Why bother?

Shall we get into what it probably means for consumers and HD-DVD now that MICROSOFT is involved and all that could possibly, maybe, might, if the stars align, and we circle everyone with rose petals... means to the consumers and general public? Gee - a monopoly in control of the next gen disc... that sets my mind at ease for sure.

[Digital Doug]

Oh really... You might want to follow the leg that foot's attached to and see which body it's connected too. :hah33: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=%28Kutaragi.INZZ.+AND+Sony.ASNM.%29&OS=in/Kutaragi+AND+an/Sony&RS=%28IN/Kutaragi+AND+AN/Sony and then come back and tell me it's not possible or not accurate. We'll soon see what's in store for the PS3 victums.

and here... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27568 So would you like to retract your statements above? :rofl2: Don't bother, I'm sure you're in denial.

Also if you think, for one second, Sony would not proceed with this copy protection patent because "it's not popular" as you say then you need to take a look at what they have already done. http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=996

This clearly demonstrates to me, once again, that they could care less about what's popular and will go to the nth degree to protect their property from you (the pirate, the enemy, the bad consumer who purchased their product).

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23921409

read at the bottom of the article linked above.....Sony will NOT be copy protecting games to a single console.

I love all the CONJECTURE that has come up over the last couple months on the PS3's abilities, or to some points, disabilities. So there's a patent out there.....big whoop de doo. Did the "journalist" actually try to contact Sony reps? Not likely. Instead, they write an article with the headline "No pre-owned games to be allowed for Playstation 3" with the smaller line "That's the speculation". Talk about crappy, irresponsible "news". That would be like CNN or Drudge or whoever titling an article "US to use nuclear weapons on Iran" while the actual content of the article explains that the US has nuclear weapons and the technology to use them.

As with any PS3 related stuff.....calm down until something actually comes from SONY. For the love of all that is holy! Right now, only Sony and game developers know about PS3 and its true specs. Sony isn't saying anything yet, to let the hype build, and developers can't say much because they probably have nice non-disclosure agreements since the puppy hasn't launched yet.

Hopefully, and most probably, we'll have a better understanding at CES, where Sony CEO Howard Stringer is a keynote speaker. Until then, take a Ritalin, and chill!

As for BD vs. HDDVD, there is no winner yet....since neither have launched here. But I think the best strategy for winning the war is two-fold. 1. Software available. Titles, Titles, Titles........if you have the most to offer the consumer, you look better. Plain and simple. 2. Low-cost players - Make players more affordable quickly, you look better.

Why I THINK (not fact, just opinion) BD has the edge. Nearly all of the major studios/distributors have backed BD at this point. HDDVD is missing some of the major studios, for now at least. At this point, chalk point 1 above to Blu-Ray. Also, the rumored launch price of PS3. With RUMORS putting it between $400-600, many more closer to $400, this gives the home user a decent value on a new technology. Yes, we know what it is supposed to cost to put a PS3 together, theoretically. But when it comes to gaming consoles, developers traditionally take a bath on it initially, counting on long run sales to even it out. Happened with PS2. Sony ate losses for a year and a half before turning a profit......big losses. But they eventually made that back as they penetrated the market. Even some estimates have M$ losing around $400 per XBox360 sold. And when standalone players come out, they won't be cheap. Most HT products never are on first release. So, another notch for BD. Lots of titles and possibly an early "cheap" player.

But that is all CONJECTURE as I said, and we have a fair length of time before actual product launches.

Until then...... :stop: the silliness

[Ratman]

Actually, this tread has spiraled way off topic from the OP.

Time to start a new thread if you want to keep it civil.