awww great - THE FORMAT WAR HD vs BLu-ray

[soze]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002104142_japandvd30.html


this sucks for us!


HD-DVD movies and Blu-Ray movies at amazon (site support link) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FHD-DVD-Store-High-Definition-DVDs%2Fb%3Fie%3DUTF8%26node%3D16297241&tag=cylentnetwork-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)

[AdminJoe]

Should be an interesting late 05!

[DVdude]

Here we go all over again... looks Like another Beta vs. VHS format war

"Hollywood Backs Toshiba on DVD Format" (Nov. 29, 2004):
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20041129/D86LJB200.html

"Hollywood Steps Into DVD Format Fight" (Nov. 30, 2004):
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20041130/D86M79T01.html

[soze]

this is worst, SONY has learned and teamed up with formidable partners - and they have a movie studio to boot....no one wins - I'll bet on Blu-ray just because I trust Matsu****a and Sony

[DVdude]

Here's How the competition stacks up so far...

In the High-Definition DVD (HD-DVD) court, we have:
Toshiba, NEC Corp., Paramount Pictures, Universal Studios, Warner Bros. (part of Time Warner Inc.), New Line Cinema (part of Time Warner Inc.), Paramount Home Entertainment (a unit of Viacom Inc.), Universal Pictures (a General Electric Co.), Universal Studios Home Entertainment, and HBO

In the Blu-Ray Disc side of the ring, we have:
Sony Corp., Sony Pictures, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc., Panasonic (Matsushi*a Electric Industrial Co.), Philips Electronics (Matsushi*a Electric Industrial Co.), Fox Entertainment Group Inc. (part of News Corp.), Twentieth Century Fox, Columbia Pictures (owned by Sony), Pioneer, Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Samsung, Sharp, Thomson, Zenith, Dell and Hewlett-Packard


For more information, visit...

The Latest news on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray:
http://www.hddvd.org/hddvd/

HD-DVD (One Format Only):
http://www.dvdsite.org/

DVD Forum (Tokyo, Japan):
http://www.dvdforum.org/

Blu-Ray Disc Association:
http://www.blu-ray.com/

Blu-Ray Disc Association:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/

Blu-Ray Disc License Department:
http://www.blu-raydisc.info/

Blu-Ray Disc Founder's (BDF) List:
http://www.blu-raydisc.info/press/040108.pdf

[soze]

great info....now if it was SOny against everyone - we all know who'd win.....but talk about a schism...

the pain begins....

[LoserBoy]

I read this article earlier today as well and at first I was worried, until I remembered that Sony has already declared that the PlayStation 3 will be Blu-Ray and given their previous history of the PlayStation 2, I'm almost positive that it will have playback of movies.

So while it does not bode well for the industry to have competing formats, it isn't unlikely people will end up having both types of players in their homes anyway, or with not as much hassle as before.

Granted its a year or so off and a lot can change, I wasn't so angry when I realized that there will be other practical uses for the media (computer drives, game consoles) and its not quite the BetaMax/VHS situation, or even the DVD/DivX fiascoe of more recent. Both of those were competing for the same niche and could serve no other purpose, where as Sony is at no loss if it decides to only use it's Blu-Ray technology for games/computers and not for movies. There's more flexibility due to the versitile nature of the format. At least, that's my optomistic way of looking at it.

[Ratman]

Those with the most money have the best toys.
Sony holds trump cards at this point IMO.

[Matt27]

Blu Ray, because more storage space equals more possibilities, so you don't have to sacrifice picture quality and the best sound from lesser storage space such as HD DVD.

THe more the storage space the more better the movie will perform.

[Eyedox]

I guess HD-DVD is easier to convert current movie studio DVD publishing equipment to than Blu-Ray (start from scratch replacing everything). But Blu-Ray is supposedly superior technology and storage space. I think we will see consoles and computers heavy on Blu-Ray and Consumer/Component Players be HD-DVD for awhile, until some genius figures out a way to get both formats to work in one device ... such as the +/- DVD R/W wars of yore.

[UTCiv]

I think the chosen format will be whoever releases their systems and media to the masses first. A three month jump on the competition could spell monopoly in the market. Betamax was better, but VHS still won b/c of it hitting the market earlier.

There is also the possibility of having exclusivity in movie formats but a player that supports both.

It could also follow the video game pattern. Playstation and XBox co-habitate fairly well, and keep each others prices down.

Does anyone know if an HD-DVD has any problems holding 4hrs of 1080i level video and 6.1 sound?

If not would you need much more?

[Ratman]

Does anyone know if an HD-DVD has any problems holding 4hrs of 1080i level video and 6.1 sound?

Check out some of the URL's in the post above... that should provide some insight.

[57U]

Betamax was better, but VHS still won b/c of it hitting the market earlier.I was around at the time and I don't believe it was the case. I bought my first VCR in the late 1970s for about C$1500. It was VHS and the reason for the VHS purchase was the 4 hour recording mode while Sony still had only 1.

The VHS machines also very quickly added more "features" than the Sony and were offering 6 hour tapes when Sony had 1.5 - 2 hour ones. Although the VHS quality was lower, it was "good enough".

[DVdude]

Parsons: The HD-DVD format is a piracy stopper (Dec. 6, 2004):

http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/excite-com/news-story.asp?guid={67696DAB-8B95-4F93-9F14-02CB4012240C}

[DVdude]

Toshiba, Memory-Tech Develop New DVD:
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20041207/D86QSHAG0.html

Finally, some good news on DVD and HD-DVD compatibility. This is a big plus for the HD-DVD format over Blu-Ray. Here's a snippet from today's article:

"Two Japanese companies said Tuesday they have developed a DVD that can play on both existing machines and the upcoming high-definition players, raising hopes for a smooth transition as more people dump old TV sets for better screens. Toshiba Corp. and Memory-Tech Corp. said their disc has a dual-layered surface that can store both types of data on the same side."

[wkrasl]

Blu Ray, because more storage space equals more possibilities, so you don't have to sacrifice picture quality and the best sound from lesser storage space such as HD DVD.

The more the storage space the more better the movie will perform.

It's my understanding that the higher storage comes with the price of being on a media with a thinner (more fragile) surface. Not everyone will realize they have to be much more careful to avoid nicks, scrapes, and scratches. :nono2:

[brector]

It's my understanding that the higher storage comes with the price of being on a media with a thinner (more fragile) surface. Not everyone will realize they have to be much more careful to avoid nicks, scrapes, and scratches. :nono2:

But aren't blue ray disks going to come in a caddy-type holder?

[Matt27]

Plus i heard TDK is supposed to put a hard coating on the blu=ray discs to prevent scratches, so this should'nt be a problem.

[Casey]

yea no caddy. the coating is supposed to be awesome. like you can write on the disc with a sharpie and it just beads up and wipes right off

[DVdude]

Jan. 5, 2005
Sonic Announces Support for Blu-ray Disc Data Recording
Sonic and Roxio Applications for CD and DVD Creation to Add Blu-ray Burning
http://www.sonic.com/
http://www.emedialive.com/Newsletters/EMediaXtra.aspx?NewsletterID=225#8

On an older note:
Apple announced that the DVD Forum has ratified the H.264 Advanced Video Codec (AVC) to be included in the next generation High Definition (HD) DVD format. The H.264/AVC codec was jointly developed by the Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG) and the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) and has been ratified into the MPEG-4 specification as the next-generation video codec. H.264/AVC is based on open standards and will ship in Apple's QuickTime software in an upcoming release next year.
http://www.macmerc.com/news/archives/1440

[realmadrid]

another big company has sided with BLU-Ray and nobodey mentioned it. Walt Disney.

[DVdude]

Apple announces QuickTime 7 with HD support at January MacWorld - San Francisco:

QuickTime 7 features an ultra-efficient new video codec called H.264. H.264 delivers stunning video quality at remarkably low data rates, so you see crisp, clear video in much smaller files. Chosen as the industry-standard codec for 3GPP (mobile multimedia), HD-DVD and Blu-ray, H.264 represents the future of next-generation, high-definition DVD playback.

Four Times the Frame Size:
Thanks to its incredible efficiency, H.264 provides up to four time the frame size of video encoded with today's MPEG-4 video codec at the same data rate.

Surround Sound Support:
Extensive Surround Sound support means you enjoy the ultimate audio experience when you connect your Mac to external speakers. QuickTime 7 brings surround sound movies and video games to life.

Source: http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/quicktime.html
and: http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/h264.html

Also, Widescreen, High-Definition Video (HDV) support has been added to the following Apple software products:

iMovie HD: http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/
iDVD 5: http://www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/
Both are part of the iLife '05 package: http://www.apple.com/ilife/

Final Cut Express HD: http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/

[DVdude]

"Sonopress Joins Blu-ray Disc Association"

In addition to the Blu-ray format, Sonopress plans to support a variety of new formats as they become available to consumers, including HD-DVD and DualDisc.

About Sonopress Sonopress LLC, part of Arvato, a Bertelsmann company, is a global leader in media replication and turnkey services.

Source: http://www.sonopress.com/us/?id=52&prel=1&prNo=24

[elicross]

another big company has sided with BLU-Ray and nobodey mentioned it. Walt Disney.

They're signed on, but they haven't officially "sided" with Blu-ray. They've said that they haven't ruled out producing HD-DVD disks.

[DVdude]

First Optical Disc Recorder Able to Record and Playback Blu-Ray, DVD & CD Formats...

Sunnyvale, Calif. - Jan. 24 - Zoran Corporation (Nasdaq: ZRAN) announced that its Generation9 integrated high definition display processor powers Samsung Electronics' Blu-Ray Disc (BD-R1000) recorder that is the first to record and playback Blu-Ray, DVD and CD formats with a single optical pickup.

Source: http://www.zoran.com/press_room/2005/1_24_05_g9bluray.html

[DVdude]

Good news for end users/consumers making the transition from DVD to HD-DVD. This would be a great medium to include the same movie in both formats on a single disc. That way you can play the disc on a current generation DVD player and play the other side on a Hi-Def DVD player down-the-road when you decide to upgrade your player.

Cinram introduces new hybrid HD/DVD-9 disc

Beginning in January 2005, Cinram will offer a single optical disc capable of storing data in both DVD and HD-DVD formats.

The new read-only discs contain two sides. The first consists of a traditional DVD 9 that can store up to 8.4 GB of data, while the other side is a HD DVD capable of storing up to 15 GB of data, or a two-hour movie in high-definition format.

Source: http://www.cinram.com/press_releases/050106.html

[Hyperspace]

Does anyone know a ballpark figure on the average cost of these new players & discs (which ever ones they are) when they first come out?

[Ratman]

My guess... (initially)
Players ~ $1000
DVD's ~$30

[Matt27]

That's just about what i thought as well, give it a few years and maybe we should see some prices of 499$ or less

[DVdude]

Blu-ray Disc Association Surpasses 100th Member Milestone (Feb. 15, 2005)

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) membership has now grown beyond 100 companies. Established in October of last year, the BDA has gained the support of companies in the computer, consumer electronics, video gaming, optical media, disc replication, authoring, and content industries.

Among the most recent companies to join the BDA are Toho Co., Ltd. and Toei Video Company, Ltd., which are the two movie studios in Japan. Toho Co., Ltd. is a production house and distributor of movies in Japan, while Toei Video is involved with production of movies, sales of DVDs, and other packaged media.

See the full press release here (PDF): http://www.bluraydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/050215-12934.pdf

[Matt27]

That is very good news, now it all comes down to which one the studios will use. Blu-ray or HD DVD?

[DVdude]

Nero Digital is making news and headway into the HD-DVD marketplace...

Nero is ahead of its time and the choice of the industry as a next generation solution for HD-DVD video.

With Nero Recode 2 direct encoding or transcoding from any video or DVD source to H.264/AVC with full playback along with 5.1 HE AAC audio will be possible. This*will again*be an industry first.

"Nero Digital™ Proves to be the Technology of Choice for Next Generation DVD at the International CES 2005 Show"

All the HD content shown on the HD-DVD player prototype at the HD-DVD pavilion at CES was encoded with Recode, a Nero product that includes Nero Digital™ technology. Nero is the first company in the world to introduce AVC/H.264 content creation with VCPS (Video Content Protection System) for HD video.

Source: http://www.nerodigital.com/enu/PR_2005_01_18.html


"Nero Digital paves the way for HD burning..."
http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5618712-1.html?tag=hot

[DVdude]

Blu-ray Disc Association Welcomes Apple to Its Board of Directors

Full Press Release: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html

[gparris]

Since you probably will have to buy TWO HD players to get the movie you want in HD, a universal player should be manufactured, just like like the DVD- and DVD+ ones that came out and don't forget the format war with DVD-A and SACD until universal players finally came out. :whistle:

Initially, the players will be expensive even as BD or HD DVD separates, but until the studios start delivering the same movie is both formats like they did with Beta and VHS, it will be difficult to afford both or even who would want 2 HD players in their entertainment cabinent or shelves? No me! :shootout:

[DVdude]

Sonic Debuts Blu-ray Disc Burning and Playback Software at CeBIT 2005 (3-14-2005)

Sonic Solutions, a provider of digital media software, and Philips & BenQ Digital Storage Corporation (PBDS), a Blu-ray (BD) technology company, debuted Blu-ray Disc recording/playback solutions that will allow consumers to burn and play back discs in the new high-capacity BD digital media format. In a joint demonstration with PBDS, Sonic unveiled its AuthorScript Blu-ray Data Recording Software Development Kit (SDK) as well as Blu-ray support in its Roxio, RecordNow, and CinePlayer HD consumer software applications.

Sonic plans to make its AuthorScript Blu-ray Data Recording SDK available for licensing in the summer of 2005.

Source: http://www.sonic.com/pr/

[DVdude]

In-Stat 2005 Market Research:

New formats for DVDs will jump start another round of video replacement by consumers. In North America, HD DVD will ship later this year, and will become the dominant new format. Blu-Ray equipment and discs will become popular in Asia, Europe and the ROW. By having HD DVD in North America, and Blu-Ray elsewhere, Hollywood will once again gain control of geographic distribution.

In-Stat also found the following:

Outside of North America, Blu-Ray discs will become the dominant high-definition format, because it is backed by the "who's who" of international consumer electronics manufacturers, and ultimately provides more storage capacity and better features.

Source: http://www.instat.com/catalog/ccatalogue.asp?id=212

[Matt27]

So your saying HD DVD won?

[DVdude]

I think the In-Stat article is saying that since the majority of Hollywood Studios are currently backing HD-DVD, that it will gain the initial foothold in North America. That doesn't mean that Blu-Ray won't eventually surpass HD-DVD in North America... it's just that HD-DVD will get here faster due to it's easier and cheaper production method.

But, all that may be irrelevant if Blu-Ray and HD-DVD supporters agree on a unified HD Hybrid disc format...


"Sony, Toshiba Seek Unified DVD Format" (April 21, 2005)... here's an exert...

TOKYO (AP) - Sony Corp. (SNE) and Toshiba Corp. said Thursday they are in negotiations about how to resolve their competing next-generation optical disk formats, aiming to give consumers a unified video technology.

But both sides played down a report in the business daily Nihon Keizai Shimbun Thursday that said the Japanese electronics makers were on the verge of agreeing on a compromise "hybrid" next-generation DVD format as soon as this month.

Blu-ray has more capacity, now at 50 gigabytes than HD-DVD at 30 gigabytes, but proponents of HD-DVD say their format is cheaper to make because the production method is similar to current DVDs.

The Nihon Keizai report said Hollywood executives and electronics manufacturers are discussing whether to merge the two competing formats, which are on a collision course and are threatening to delay the arrival of high-definition movies and games worldwide.

The Nikkei reported that, after reaching an agreement that a unified standard would be desirable, the two firms are now looking to develop a hybrid standard that takes advantage of each standard's strengths.

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050421/D89JOSVG0.html

[DVdude]

The latest Blu-Ray and HD-DVD Software announcements from NAB 2005:


Sonic Debuts Scenarist® HD:
First HD DVD Authoring System Enables Hollywood Studios to Begin High-Definition Title Development .
---
Sonic Introduces Blu-ray Creator™:
World’s First Blu-ray Disc Authoring System Enables Title Production for Commercial Release .
---
Sonic Powers Demonstration of Advanced Interactivity for HD Disc Formats:
Joint iHD Preview with Microsoft Highlights Bonus Features and Connectivity for High Definition Video Titles

Sonic Solutions, the leader in digital media authoring software, along with Microsoft Corp. demonstrated iHD, developed by Microsoft and The Walt Disney Studios to deliver advanced interactivity for new HD-based disc formats. The Sonic-developed demonstration offers NAB attendees a compelling preview of the future of high definition video entertainment, showcasing Sonic’s patented InterActual® technology which enables viewers of HD video discs to experience advanced interactivity along with access to supplemental movie-synchronized content that can come from disc or the Internet.

Source: http://www.sonic.com/pr/

-----------------

Avid Xpress Product Family Embraces HD:
New Avid Xpress Studio HD and Avid Xpress Pro HD PowerPack deliver powerful, integrated content creation tools at breakthrough prices.
---
Avid Unveils Symphony Nitris and Sets New Standard in HD Finishing:
Company extends Avid DNA line by fusing unmatched HD performance of Nitris hardware with industry-leading Avid Symphony finishing toolset.

Source: http://www.avid.com/pressroom/index.asp

-----------------

Apple Unveils Final Cut Studio:
Final Cut Studio, the ultimate HD video production suite includes DVD Studio Pro 4, the first commercially available DVD authoring software that burns high definition DVDs to the latest HD DVD specification.
---
DVD Studio Pro 4:
HD DVD: Showcase your HD content with industry-standard H.264 encoding. Supports all channel formats from mono to 5.1 surround sound.

Source: http://www.apple.com/pr/
Source: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/
Source: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/

[DVdude]

HD DVD discs approaching Blu-Ray capacity... the gap is narrowing:

Toshiba introduces a new triple-layer HD DVD-ROM disc with a data capacity of 45 GB, 50% more than the 30 GB dual-layer HD DVD-ROM disc already announced.

The latest prototype from the Tokyo-based electronics maker holds 45GB --
less than Blu-ray Disc BD's 50GB storage capacity -- but it only requires
three 15GB layers, according to the company. Blu-ray's disc needs two 25GB
data-storage layers.

Toshiba is banking on the technology of its HD DVDs to be the future of
high-definition DVDs.

Toshiba also announced a double-sided, dual-layer hybrid ROM disc comprised of dual-layer HD DVD-ROM side and dual-layer DVD-ROM side. The hybrid disc can store 30 GB of high-definition content on the HD DVD-ROM side and 8.5 GB of standard-definition content on the DVD-ROM dual layer side.

Sources:
http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/showstory.jsp?storyid=3720&s=ln
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3505131

---

SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES joins Blu-ray Disc Association (May 10, 2005)

SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES Qualifies “BLU-LINE” (May 10, 2005)

SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES announced the successful qualification of “BLU-LINE” – its forthcoming replication system for 3 rd generation Blu-ray discs.

Sources:
http://www.singulus.de/english/3_press/index_press.htm
http://www.singulus.de/deutsch/4_produkte/replication/index_bluline.htm

[evoknievel]

i'll put my money on HD DVD being the first out of the gate, but Blu-ray taking over in the end. heres my main two reasons why: Apple. Sony.

Everyone forgets how influential Apple is in the entertainment world. they were one of the first to begin putting DVD burners in their computers, and are an industry std in film making (for almost all major studios, and ESPECIALLY for small businsses and the average consumer)... and Sony can make a technology practically a standard, they almost always get what they want, even if it is proprietary (memory stick anyone?)

This leads me to the PS3. If the games are on Blu-Ray discs... then EVERYONE that owns a PS3 now has a Blu-Ray player... key in the race. this is 30+ million blu-ray players alone, just because people like to play games (and not the case for XBOX 360 owners "stuck" with traditional DVD).

Also, theres no saying that these two technologies wont co-exist either. i dont see the companies backing HD DVD giving it up, nor do i see the ones backing Blu-Ray either.

The part that sucks about this is for consumer... certain movies will only be available in one format (i.e. Sony movies only in Blu-Ray, Universal movies only in HD DVD). this means that (atleast while the technology is new, probably for about 5 years) the consumer will end up having to own two different players. and at (my guess) $300-$500 or more for each player thats about $1000 in movie players (the first DVD player I ever bought was $350)... and, no matter how cool the technology is, that just plain SUCKS!

--

[evoknievel]

What's your take on it? Who will win? Which one is better? Why?

In the HD-DVD corner:
Toshiba, NEC Corp., Paramount Pictures, Universal Studios, Time-Warner, Warner Bros., New Line Cinema, Paramount Home Entertainment, Universal Pictures, Universal Studios Home Entertainment, and HBO.

In the Blu-Ray corner:
Sony Corp., Sony Pictures, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc., Disney, Panasonic , Philips Electronics, Fox Entertainment Group Inc., Twentieth Century Fox, Columbia Pictures, Apple, Pioneer, Hitachi, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Samsung, Sharp, Thomson, Zenith, Dell and Hewlett-Packard (Complete List: http://www.bluraydisc.com/Section-13469/Index.html)


Blu-Ray: http://www.blu-ray.com/
HD DVD: http://www.dvdsite.org/
Latest News: http://www.hddvd.org/hddvd/

[gparris]

I don't really like a triple layer type of disc as proposed by Toshiba... as it is bad enough with some DVD movies you get that "freeze" in the picture once each movie with a dual layer disc, imagine it going on twice...no thank you.
GO Blu-ray!

[soze]

i think the battleground will be the gaming area! PS3 supports 1080p....gamers are gonna have to get HD's(not EDTVs)

that'll drive HD sets and Blue-ray standard

[jj9126]

i think the battleground will be the gaming area! PS3 supports 1080p....gamers are gonna have to get HD's(not EDTVs)

that'll drive HD sets and Blue-ray standard

Agreed, there's a good article about this at http://www.thedigitalbits.com
today.

In a nutshell: the PS3 alone is going to kill the HD-DVD camp. We're talking an instant base of MILLIONS of Blu-Ray players at a (likely) lower-cost than a stand-alone HD-DVD player.

[Ratman]

Or... you'll have a game system that may only be good for PS3 games and perhaps a handful of movies.

This is like Beta vs. VHS.

IMO, the first one out of the gates with a general movie player and media will have the edge. Price will be the second driving force.

[wifeB8]

....................In a nutshell: the PS3 alone is going to kill the HD-DVD camp. We're talking an instant base of MILLIONS of Blu-Ray players at a (likely) lower-cost than a stand-alone HD-DVD player.

Since when has the PS driven up the sales of video. The PS II sure didn’t drive up sales of DVD so what makes you think the PS3 will do that for Blu-ray. In fact almost everyone I know with a PS II has a dedicated DVD player. No reason to think this would change in the future. I find that hard to believe. However if Sony decides to start dumping their PS3 in order to stay competitive with HD-DVD prices the media itself will offset any gains.

....................Or... you'll have a game system that may only be good for PS3 games and perhaps a handful of movies.

Sounds familiar. Augh PSP.

[wifeB8]

Interesting article. Specifically “What is needed to become a standard”
If no agreement is reached between Sony and Toshiba than the one that largely wins the format war is the one that can attain three core concepts.

http://bizwriter-en.blogspot.com/2005/04/history-repeats-itself-blu-ray-vs-hd.html

[jj9126]

Wifeb8,

Are you suggesting that the PS2 hasn't helped to sell DVD's? Trust me, go to any dorm room in America... you'll find a lot of kids using PS2's as their primary player.

Despite that, this is a completely different situation. The PS2 didn't come out until 3+ years after the introduction of DVD. PS3 is going to be hitting the market at the same time as HD-DVD and stand-alone Blu-Ray.

If a particular HD owner is also a gamer (and I would be willing to bet a high percentage are): what is their possible incentive for purchasing an HD-DVD player? Wouldn't they be better off purchasing a PS3 and waiting to see how the format war breaks down?

With a PS3, they've got access to HD movies starting early next year (on a player with specs that blow away current high-end units). The WORST CASE scenerio is that they're stuck with next-gen game system and a handful of movies. The best case: they chose correctly and didn't have to wait until late 06/early 07 to enjoy HD media.

(I do agree with you about the worthless PSP software, though)

[wifeB8]

Wifeb8,

Are you suggesting that the PS2 hasn't helped to sell DVD's? Trust me, go to any dorm room in America... you'll find a lot of kids using PS2's as their primary player.
Believe me the driving force behind DVD sales over the last five years has not been the PS2. In fact the data suggest that after eight years of DVD penetration the number of DVD households in the US is twice that of a PS2 DVD equipped game consoles.

............If a particular HD owner is also a gamer (and I would be willing to bet a high percentage are): what is their possible incentive for purchasing an HD-DVD player? Wouldn't they be better off purchasing a PS3 and waiting to see how the format war breaks down?

Not sure why you would think so. Fact is most HDTV owners are not “gamers”.
Therefore, the option to purchase a combination player/game console might not be the best one.

If you are a gamer and a HDTV owner than a video/game console might make more sense. With a couple of large assumptions thrown in to make it sensible. First, that the combination video/game player offers the same quality during playback as a stand alone unit. Looking at past efforts it’s far from reality. Second, the video/game player cost is reasonable compared with a dedicated player. I don’t see how Sony plans to make this a reality. The PS3 specs only mention the capability of the PS3 to play Blu-ray discs. What would you think if you had to buy the Blu-ray player as an add-on? Otherwise, a big bold disclaimer on the box- not included in the base price for the console. A bit less appealing IMO.

I’m not a Sony basher. In fact I own several high end SONY products. I just don’t understand all the media hype on how a gaming console will solely define the next generation DVD standard and where this fallacy of a lower cost PS3 equipped Blu-ray console compared to an HD DVD player has popped out from.

[DVdude]

Maybe the real "winner" in this HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray battle will be the DVD player manufacturers. They will be able to sell 2 different format players... then again, they might make a blue-laser player that can play both formats.

Here's the latest news from the Mediatech Expo 2005...

Blu-Ray, HD DVD Camps Present At Media-Tech Expo

This year's Media-Tech Expo in Las Vegas, the leading annual trade show for the optical disc manufacturing industry, provided the setting for the first time that both high-density media camps -- Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD -- aired extensive details on their respective products under one roof. The event was also the place where the first announcement about the new 45GB HD DVD and the new DVD9 + HD30 Hybrid discs was made.

The Blu-ray Disc Association for its part stressed that the format was ready for cost effective manufacturing and will be making an announcement with details shortly. Leading figures from both the Blu-ray and HD DVD organizations were on hand to give in-depth technical presentations covering all aspects of next generation optical media technology and production. In addition, the Blu-ray Disc Association had its own dedicated pavilion, providing the opportunity to see their format in action.

The audiences for each set of presentations was made up of senior management from companies across the industry spectrum as well as the press and Hollywood studios. Among the representatives for the studios were Thomas Lesinski (Paramount Pictures), Bill Mandel (Universal Pictures), Christopher Cookson (Warner Bros.) and from Warner Home Video, Marsha King, Lewis Ostrover and Stephen Nickerson.

*From the HD DVD group of presenters, Masato Otsuka, Director R&D at Memory-Tech, a major replicator and developer of optical media technology, was very enthusiastic. "It is significant that Warren Lieberfarb, the 'godfather' of the DVD format, is strongly in favor of HD DVD. The demonstration of a movie trailer from Batman Begins gave everyone not only an idea of the quality of this format, but proved also the fact that already many major studios are in favor of HD DVD."

Another important message of the HD DVD proponents, says Otsuka, is the fact that unification of the formats is not to be desired. "There cannot really be a compromise on this as the disc construction is too different. HD DVD is more optimal for the future, as DVD is still growing and provides not only the most important revenue stream for the Hollywood studios but also the most profitable business model. HD DVD has more business opportunities in the long term."

The Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA) was no less delighted with the results of their own day of presentations. Marty Gordon, Philips vice president and spokesman for the BDA, expressed his enthusiasm at the time, while fielding questions of unification and also reiterating the statement that there was no announcement to be made about a consolidation of the two formats. "Media-Tech was an important platform for the Blu-ray Disc Association," says Gordon. "The combination of our Blu-ray Disc Pavilion and Workshop helped us to successfully get the word out that Blu-ray Disc manufacturing is ready to go while providing detailed and specific information to the manufacturing community.

"The feedback we've received has been quite positive. Our workshop was very well-attended, with standing room only. Both following the workshop and throughout the show we saw an increasing industry recognition that the larger disc capacity and considerable room for growth of Blu-ray Disc will be key to adoption of a next generation optical disc format. Blu-ray Disc offers 50GB of capacity as a starting point and there have already been laboratory demonstrations of discs with a capacity of 200GB.

"During the Blu-ray Disc workshop, the disc manufacturing community heard from 9 of the 126 companies involved in the Blu-ray Disc format. We look forward to keeping the dialogue going with the disc manufacturing community through important venues such as Media-Tech."

http://www.media-tech.net
and
http://mediatech-expo.net/2006/index2.php?loadContent=introduction

[gparris]

After reading this article today, I have decided to not buy either format until I have either one format to buy from any studio or a universal player that handles them both.
:whistle:
At least with VHS and BETA, you had movie releases from both studios...not this time! :shootout:

[DVdude]

The battle between HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray is unfortunate for consumers. However, as these 2 competing technologies mature, it seems their feature sets get more similar as in the recent announcement of the increased HD-DVD format capacity (see story above) and the Blu-Ray Disc annoucement that they have lowered manufacturing and replication costs in-line with current DVD manufacturing costs (see story below). Maybe they will continue matching feature-for-feature to the point that it does become logical to have only one format... only time will tell.

Here's the latest HD-DVD and Blu-Ray Disc News:
-----------------------------------------------------------

Ulead Gains Toshiba Endorsement for HD DVD Technology:

Computex (Taipei, Taiwan)*- May 31, 2005*- Ulead Systems, Inc., a 15-year industry leader in video, image and DVD software, has received the endorsement of Toshiba Corporation for the company's pioneering work in developing HD DVD technology for high definition video.

"Toshiba recognizes the significant contribution Ulead has made to the realization of HD DVD" says Hisashi Yamada, Corporate Senior Vice President and Chief Fellow of the Digital Media Network Company of Toshiba Corporation. "Ulead has rapidly developed core engine technology enabling content authoring systems to incorporate both Standard and Advanced Content in the creation of HD DVD titles. As the first vendor to supply this key component, Ulead plays an important role in realizing the HD DVD promise of superior video quality and enhanced interactivity."

Source: http://www.ulead.com.tw/ulead/UDNews/preview.cfm?ID=368&FS=us&template=PressReleases.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------

InterVideo and Ulead Unveil Next-generation DVD Technologies at Computex 2005

HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc Technologies on Display
Highlighting the event are demonstrations of High-Definition DVD and Blu-Ray Disc (BD) playback, authoring and burning technologies co-developed by InterVideo and Ulead. InterVideo, a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, along with Ulead, will present BD capabilities that will enable users to record, rewrite and playback discs in the high-definition BD digital format. Unveiling for the first time, InterVideo and Ulead will showcase software technology for navigation and playback of content on an HD-DVD and BD disc. The technologies will be showcased in next-generation prototypes of the companies' flagship products including InterVideo WinDVD®, the ultimate DVD playback with over 125 million copies shipped worldwide; and Ulead DVD MovieFactory, an intuitive tool for creating high-quality videos and digital image slideshows on DVD/CD discs.

"Ulead and InterVideo are aggressively deploying the key technologies of the HD era," said Lewis Liaw, President of Ulead Systems. "Customers can look forward to a rapid series of releases delivering HDV/DTV Capture/DVD recording, video/audio editing and content protection, HD DVD/ BD title playback, HD DVD/ BD authoring/recording, and HD DVD/ BD burning. We will provide a total solution to our OEM customers along with applications to enable home users, professionals and businesses to benefit from next-generation DVD technologies."

Source: http://www.ulead.com.tw/ulead/UDNews/preview.cfm?ID=369&FS=us&template=PressReleases.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------

Blu-ray Disc Ready for Cost Effective Manufacturing

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) has announced that acceptance and adoption of the Blu-ray Disc has led to the maturation of the complete disc manufacturing process. Having multiple companies involved with each step has contributed to process improvements and cost efficiencies that bring the long-term cost of manufacturing BD-ROM discs in line with current DVD replication costs, according to the BDA.

The most recent advances come in the area of cover-layer technology, where one of two approaches (film bonding and spin coating) can be used to apply the 0.1mm cover-layer used in Blu-ray Disc.

With the improvements in cover-layer technology, and in preparation for mass production of BD-ROM discs, Singulus Technologies, a leading manufacturer of replication equipment, has developed replication systems that will target cycle times towards three seconds.

Sony has developed equipment to streamline the disc mastering process by reducing the eleven steps currently used in DVD mastering to five for BD-ROM. This mastering process, Phase Transition Mastering (PTM), requires as little as one-fifth of the space required for DVD mastering and the equipment can be configured to allow mastering of both BD-ROM and DVD-ROM on a single system, according to the BDA. The first two commercial machines are for Technicolor and Cinram for 2005 installation.

In addition to ramping up for mass production of the 50GB discs that will be available at format launch, Blu-ray has begun work to ensure that the format continues to grow as high-definition technology evolves. Blu-ray companies have successfully demonstrated 200GB discs in a laboratory environment, according to the BDA.

Source: http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/050525-12993.pdf (PDF)

[Kevin_in_ga]

I find it interesting that so many people are getting worked up over which format will win - the truth is that the vast majority of consumers will not upgrade to HD palyers until some stability comes to the market (i.e., a single format begins to emerge as the winner).

There is a reason why we call people "early adopters" - the are the 5 or 10 percent that pay for the privledge of owning it "first" - cool, but in reality they are driving development costs down for the rest of us. If some of them get burned in the process (like betamax owners), so be it. Most intelligent buyers will wait a bit.

And until there is content for these formats (and that means more than a handful of movies, and at a price competitive with current dvd costs), most people will wait a bit.

[Ratman]

I find it interesting that some don't have the insight/experience to have some concern.

IMO, one cannot 'blame' early adopters. Blame the developers/manufacturers that try to 'corner the market'. It's not an "I own it first" mentality. It's "finally... what we've been waiting for" mentality.

Migration to an HD format with DVD's has been anticipated for many years and now there's yet another 'battle' which causes frustration and potentially consumers $$ wasted either with obsolesence or forced to purchase hardware that is 'multi-format'.

Again... this the VHS vs. Beta dilemma. It's doesn't matter which format is 'better' (for one reason or another). It's who can get the hardware and software on the market first that's acceptable/affordable to the general consumer (existing HDTV owner). I would envision that the first technology with their 'foot in the door' may prevail (I could be wrong).

I don't care which format wins. I want one format.

And IMO... waiting does not equate to intelligence.

[Matt27]

Could'nt agree more, just as long as i can see my movies in HD, then i'm happy.

[gparris]

I have been through more format changes that some, but not all, forum members, I am sure.
That is why I will never buy a single DVD in High Def until there is ONE standard.
First I had Beta, then VHS then both with HIFI stereo added...thought on my big CRT it was the greatest.
Then LaserDisc, first with no DTS, then with and the disc flipper.
Then a LaserDisc player with DVD, just in case.
(In between I bought lots of movies on LD, it looked so fantastic on my CRT analogue 50" RPTV) at the time.
Then a DVD player without Progressive Scan, then with it, using component connections on my 60" HD-ready set in 2000.
What a massive DVD collection I have-now-as many of us have.
I got an upconversion player for 720p and it looks better, though my Faroudja processor with component cabling looks great, too.
So do I need to go with TWO HD formats in DVD....no...!
Enough is enough, SONY and Toshiba-I want backwards capability and ONE format.

[DVdude]

The HD format battle continuing along similar paths... now HD DVD-R and BD-R are both announced:

---
Toshiba, partners develop recordable HD DVD

TOKYO June 8, 2005 — Toshiba Corp. and three partners announced development of HD DVD-R, the first recordable HD DVD format, as the industry continues its quest to settle on the next-generation recordable disk standard.

Despite much talk about a single recordable disk standard, proponents of both the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc have for the time being proceeded with separate roll-out plans for their formats. In promoting HD DVD-R, Toshiba and its partners stressed that the disks can be produced in current DVD-R production lines.

Full story: http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=164301554

---

Blu-ray disk enters next-gen DVD race

TOKYO June 10, 2005 — A day after the announcement of a HD DVD-R disk format, Pioneer Corp. and Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co. Ltd. jointly announced development of write-once disk for the Blu-ray Disc format.

The partners said they intend to propose the disk as the BD-R format to the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Full Story: http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=164302243

[Matt27]

Wow, just more confusion to the public, jeesh..

[gparris]

Looks like I am going to try out an upconversion player for my Hitachi and sit it out until there is one standard or the two separate formats are in one universal player.

[tonelocdog]

Blue Ray is coming out on top for hd viewing material. JMO

[Ratman]

Why is that? Any info in that regard?

The last I read was that HD-DVD hardware and software will be ready by year end (holidays?). I haven't seen any Blu-ray into dates yet.

[DVdude]

25 Media Creation Companies Join Forces with Sonic Solutions to Form High-Definition Authoring Alliance (HDAA)

July 12, 2005 - Sonic Solutions announced that it has founded the High Definition Authoring Alliance (HDAA), a worldwide association of top DVD authoring houses dedicated to facilitating the rollout of titles for release in the new high-definition HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc (BD) optical disc formats.

Building on Sonic's role in DVD authoring solutions and its long-standing ties to Hollywood and the consumer electronics industry, the HDAA will work to increase momentum for successful introduction of the formats, and ensure the timely availability of quality titles by providing members with exclusive access to key information, HD-enabled tools, and comprehensive training.

The group currently has over 25 members, including the following:
* 1K Studios, LLC - Burbank, CA USA
* Ambient Digital - Santa Monica, CA USA
* Ascent Media - Burbank, CA USA
* Audio Intervisual Design - Los Angeles, CA USA
* B1 Media, Inc. - Studio City, CA USA
* Click Active Media, Inc. - Santa Monica, CA USA
* Comchoice Corporation - El Segundo, CA USA
* Daikin Industries, Ltd. - Tokyo, Japan
* Deluxe Digital Studios, Inc. - Burbank, CA USA
* DGP, Ltd - London, England
* DMP - Digital Media Production - Prague, Czech Republic
* Egmont Nordisk Film - Valby, Denmark
* Elektrofilm - Los Angeles, CA USA
* Enteractive Entertainment, GmbH - Hamburg, Germany
* Imagica Co. - Tokyo, Japan
* International Digital Management (IDM) - Oxford, England
* JP Corp. - Tokyo, Japan
* microSTREAM Pty Ltd. - Sydney, Australia
* Motionlink Pty Ltd. - Sydney, Australia
* MX Entertainment - San Francisco, CA USA
* Sonopress, GmbH - Gütersloh, Germany
* TBS Service, Inc. - Tokyo, Japan
* Technicolor Creative Services - Burbank, CA USA
* Toppan Printing - Tokyo, Japan
* Video Tech Co, Ltd. - Tokyo, Japan

Source: http://www.sonic.com/about/press/news/2005/07/hdaa.aspx

[Matt27]

1K Studios, they did a fantastic job for the james bond dvd menu's, wow!!!

[tonelocdog]

Why is that? Any info in that regard?

The last I read was that HD-DVD hardware and software will be ready by year end (holidays?). I haven't seen any Blu-ray into dates yet.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=10123 :)

[tonelocdog]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/07/15/1210208.shtml?tid=188&tid=126&tid=212&tid=233&tid=137

[Ratman]

Those articles have nothing do with "material" nor the number of movies to be released upon consumer availability.

Same old info that has been rehashed... Blu-Ray for those mainly interested in gaming and storage capacity.

[Matt27]

Storage is'nt everything though, what happens if a lot of movies don't take that much advantage of the extra space.

There are a lot of dvd's that don't take advantage of the space of dvd's.

[wifeB8]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/07/15/1210208.shtml?tid=188&tid=126&tid=212&tid=233&tid=137

Not sure what your point is. The links you provided show the poll conducted by Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates who are Blu-ray backers. Even the poll itself mentions that very clearly. Kinda like the “Walter Mondale poll” that came out two weeks before the ’84 election showing him beating Ronald Reagan. These polls aren’t exactly scientific much less impartial. No where does it mention the makeup of those people that participated in the study. There are several studies that show just the opposite.

[tonelocdog]

Well, ratman wanted some info, and i gave some to him. So whats wrong with that?

And its a debate I don't want to get into either. I can care less, until they actually come out, then I will judge for myself. Which one will be better for "ME"! Which will probably will be blue ray, because I intend onto getting my PS3 which will will play blue ray discs, so I don't want to spend any more money on HDDVD players, which no one know;s what the picture will look like anyway, hence they aren't out yet, and they are no displays Except they claim it will look like movies, on hdnet. And so forth. I take my side take your own!

[Matt27]

Only problem with that is the blu-ray drive in the PS3 is going to be a cheap one, just like with the xbox and PS2.

I'm going to get a stand alone player anyways when the time comes so it's not a deal breaker for me.Having a blu-ray drive is nice but it's not needed for videogames, plus i plan to buy the system to game on, not watch movies.

[Ratman]

Well, ratman wanted some info, and i gave some to him. So whats wrong with that?!

Nothing... except that the info provided is biased and has nothing whatsoever in regard to the release date of hardware nor the availability of "movies" (not games).

Not everyone is a "gamer'.

At least HD-DVD has a 'target release' date by 4Q05.

[DVdude]

July 29, 2005...

Today Twentieth Century Fox formally announced that its home entertainment subsidiary will release new TV programs, films and other titles on the Blu-Ray disk format when Blu-Ray hardware launches in North America, Japan and Europe.

Twentieth Century Fox said that its plan to release home video content on the Blu-Ray format was driven by the Blu-Ray Disc Association's recent adoption of "copyright protection measures" such as renewable security, that promise to make it more difficult to pirate Blu-Ray content.

Source: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/07/29/20th/index.php/?lsrc=mcweek-0729

[gparris]

So that makes the sides evenly balanced towards Blu-ray or HD DVD as this was the last of the six main studios to make a decision, right?

So if you want Warner Bros.and its subsidiaries like New Line Cinema, Viacom's Parmount division with all its subsidiaries or NBC-Universal pictures, you will need a HD DVD player, which will really make it a difficult transition to HDTV for many.
With so many confusing options like OTA, cable and satellite services - I know - because so many of my installs involve people who think that you just plug in the HDTV set and you've got HDTV (wrong), high def DVDs would be the quick answer:
High def DVDs were the one thing that could pull people over the top on buying a HDTV set and seeing its true worth by buying a high def player and inserting simply inserting a HD disc.
Realistically, I don't see the buying public "buying" into that, no way. :boo2:
Now we have a confusing mess: Thank you Sony and Toshiba for not consolidating and further confusing the buying public!

[Matt27]

That would suck if you wanted to see universal,paramount,WB, or new line cinema movies you would have to get HD DVD, and for Disney,Fox,MGM, etc. you would have to get blu-ray:(

I hope this won't happen, it will be a complete mess!

It should be as easy as possible,buy an HDTV, buy an HD DVD player, connect the proper cables to receive it, then pop in a HD DVD and you got HDTV!!!

I hope it's as easy as that in the end?

[Ratman]

That would suck if you wanted to see universal,paramount,WB, or new line cinema movies you would have to get HD DVD, and for Disney,Fox,MGM, etc. you would have to get blu-ray?

Well yeah??
What do you think the whole debate is about? How cares which format "wins"?

As long as there's one format. But... that ain't gonna happen. So... save your money. (and grab your ankles)

[gparris]

I don't really care WHO wins, just as long as there is ONE format.
Even with the old VHS and Beta tapes, all studios did both, though sometimes you did not always find your title in both-another reason to have only ONE format.

[DVdude]

Memory-Tech and Ulead Form Strategic Alliance for HD DVD Authoring Tool Development

August 1, 2005 - Ulead Systems, Inc. has announced that Memory-Tech, Japan's largest independent disc replicator, has licensed Ulead HD DVD technology for the development of Memory-Tech's advanced HD DVD authoring tools for high definition video.

Memory-Tech will develop an HD DVD authoring solution integrating Ulead software for HD DVD software production services the company offers to clients ranging from mid-sized Japanese companies to major Hollywood studios. Commercial HD DVD titles are scheduled to be available for Christmas 2005. Paramount Home Entertainment, Universal Studios Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video, New Line Home Entertainment and HBO Home Video have announced official support of the HD DVD format.

Source: http://www.ulead.com.tw/ulead/UDNews/preview.cfm?ID=390&FS=us&template=PressReleases.htm

[DVdude]

The latest on Blu-Ray...

Group Launches New DVD Security Features:

August 9, 2005: The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a partnership of electronics manufacturers and Hollywood studios including Hewlett-Packard Co. and 20th Century Fox, said it plans to fight piracy by embedding an identification mark on movies, music and video games that can only be read by equipment that carry its technology...

Source: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050809/D8BSI55O0.html
---

The Latest on HD-DVD...

Toshiba, Clariant Team on 30GB Recordable HD-DVD:
*
Developers boost capacity of dual-layer discs by using a new dye.

August 5, 2005: Swiss chemical company Clariant International and consumer electronics manufacturer Toshiba of Japan have jointly developed a dye that is necessary for dual-layer recordable HD-DVD discs capable of storing 30GB of data, representatives of both firms said Friday...

In Development

Two other formats make up the HD-DVD family. The read-only HD-DVD-ROM format will be used for prerecorded content like movies and has already been standardized at 15GB single-layer and 30GB dual-layer.

A triple-layer version capable of storing 45GB is going through the standardization process. There is also a rewritable format called HD-DVD-RW that has been standardized at 20GB. A future version of the rewritable disc that can hold around 32GB is under development.

Source: http://www.pcworld.com/resource/article/0,aid,122134,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp

[Matt27]

So the big question is will they still make their release date this year?

[wifeB8]

Hummm……..This so called ROM mark that will be employed by Blu-ray might make current DVD players useless. Let’s see…… I purchase a Blu-ray DVD title and play it on my authorized BR player and then my child wants to play the SD version on her 13” tv in her bedroom and all she will see is a blank screen. So much for backwards compatibility.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1845993,00.asp

Just hope HD-DVD stays clear of this bad idea. Backwards compatibility is one of the factors that will influence my decision on which format to support and so far HD DVD looks more appealing for several reasons.

[wifeB8]

Things appear to be grinding to a halt. Perhaps a sign that the studios want a compromise. First, Sony’s blu-ray capable system appears that it will be delayed and now it appears like Toshiba will be the only one with anything on the shelves by X-mas.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB112363894801609440-H9jfoNklal4mpysZHqHaKWIm4,00.html

[lassenloop]

Maybe some independant company will release a box that can play both formats. In that case, who cares who wins? The discs will all look the same and fit on my shelf the same.

[Ratman]

... and increase the cost(s) to the consumer.

[DVdude]

Lions Gate Movies Using Blu-Ray DVD Format:

Aug 17, 9:33 PM (ET)

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Lions Gate Entertainment Corp. (LGF) said Wednesday it will release movies and other content on the high definition Blu-Ray disc format when that technology launches next year.

The studio joins Sony Pictures, Twentieth Century Fox and The Walt Disney Co. as supporters of one of two next generation DVD formats vying to replace standard DVDs.

Both formats promise increased storage capacity and movie resolution superior enough to get top performance from high-definition television sets. And both would contain stronger anti-piracy protection, a key factor in the studios' haste to adopt a new format.

Supporters of the rival format, HD-DVD, include Warner Bros., Paramount Pictures and Universal Studios.

Blu-Ray was developed by Sony Corp. (SNE), Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co., which makes the Panasonic brand, and Philips Electronics NV. HD-DVD was developed by electronics makers Toshiba Corp. and NEC Corp. (NIPNY)

HD-DVD players and films are expected to be available by the end of the year. Blu-Ray players and films are expected to be available in North America sometime next year.

Studios and consumer electronics makers are hoping to avoid a format war that would leave consumers confused and unwilling to upgrade to the new equipment needed to play high definition discs. Such a war ensued when the competing Betamax and VHS videocassette formats were introduced, and it was blamed for slowing consumer acceptance of videocassette recorders.

Industry officials are pushing this time for both sides to reach a compromise.

Source: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050818/D8C1UAQO0.html

[tonelocdog]

Lions Gate, pretty big film industry there. Wonder what miramax will go with bue ray, or the other one.

[tonelocdog]

Nothing... except that the info provided is biased and has nothing whatsoever in regard to the release date of hardware nor the availability of "movies" (not games).

Not everyone is a "gamer'.

At least HD-DVD has a 'target release' date by 4Q05.

Well, your bias to because your sided with HDDVD.

[tonelocdog]

Only problem with that is the blu-ray drive in the PS3 is going to be a cheap one, just like with the xbox and PS2.

I'm going to get a stand alone player anyways when the time comes so it's not a deal breaker for me.Having a blu-ray drive is nice but it's not needed for videogames, plus i plan to buy the system to game on, not watch movies.

Whats going to be the difference between the stand alone and the ps3 blue ray disc player? They're both going to play blu ray discs. And last i heard sony isn't a cheap product.

[Ratman]

I have no bias towards one or the other... as long as there is one format. Sony doesn't play nice with others. IMO, it will bite them in the arse.

Keep "game" stuff in the gaming forums. Thanks!

[tonelocdog]

So what side are you on?

[Ratman]

See the post above...

[tonelocdog]

There are 2 formats not one. ?

[Ratman]

What are you talking about?

Yes?
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray?

Are you really from Venus?

[tonelocdog]

It seems like you were leaning more to the HDDVD than blue ray. Thats all.

[Ratman]

I want one format...

[gparris]

Yes, I think we all want ONE unified format for high-def DVD and one disc, IMO.
The other side of the DVD should have SD DVD (like we have now) so you only can buy ONE DVD for all the players in your house
(or the one you lend to friend or neighbour who isn't as fortunate to have an high def player yet)
when they DO introduce high def DVDs to the market. :D

It would be great to go to the store to buy or rent, like you do now and go to ONE rack and get your DVDs, not SD, Blu-ray or HD-DVD....UGH! :(

Ratman is right - Sony does not play nice:
Sony had walkman, ignored iPod, had MD (mini-disc) which was a failure and Beta which got lost over VHS (and later Sony got into VHS).
Sony never has got a A/V receiver with THX on it, either, and its so-called "Digital Cinema Sound" is no better than Pro Logic, IMO and it always takes them awhile to add the latest surround processing that comes along, too (DPLII and DLPIIx took awhile).
So if they want to cram Blu-ray down our throats and mess up and confuse the whole introduction to high def DVDs and that goes for Toshiba,too, with its HD-DVD lack of compromise (it takes two). Greed will do us all in.
I am not buying anything until ONE format exists. :boo2:

[lassenloop]

I have no bias towards one or the other... as long as there is one format. Sony doesn't play nice with others. IMO, it will bite them in the arse.

Keep "game" stuff in the gaming forums. Thanks!


Microsoft doesn't play nice either and they're supporting the HD-DVD format. I don't care too much about who wins. But I think in the long run we might be better if blue-ray wins b/c it leaves more room to expand. Thus not forcing us to upgrade as soon as HD-DVDs might.

[gparris]

This has probably been discussed before, but the HVD or holographic video disc could outdo both currently competing formats....see:

http://www.optware.co.jp/english/what_040823.htm

So then we would have to get more DVDs, or in this case, HVDs.

But history has taught us just because the technology is there and is better, we don't always get it...market and marketing decide for us!

[lassenloop]

This has probably been discussed before, but the HVD or holographic video disc could outdo both currently competing formats....see:

http://www.optware.co.jp/english/what_040823.htm

So then we would have to get more DVDs, or in this case, HVDs.

But history has taught us just because the technology is there and is better, we don't always get it...market and marketing decide for us!


I'm thinking there are probably several reasons we're not moving to that techonology yet. One is cost. The other is need. There is no need for a terrabyte worth of data for a movie (at least not yet). I don't think there is a TV out there that could possibly take advantage of the potential that an HVD can offer.

[gparris]

Blu-ray has the potential for higher capacity (no real need for HVC), one that is more practical in need to accommodate computer needs and again, have an even greater potential to have a one-disc medium, too, in addition to backwards-compatibility like having the SD version on the other side of the disc.
My "vision" is that Sony will exploit this computer disc requirement
(it sells computers, too) with its gaming system, along with its historical hard-headedness to achieve domination in the high def DVD format and distribution.

Those with HD-DVD players will have paperweights as TW, Universal and Viacom (Paramount) offer their "wares" in Blu-ray, too and HD-DVD runs out of acceptance (and space).
Not too long ago, the Laserdisc came out in two flavours-one played like a record with pits (by RCA) and the other off a red laser and red laser won.
Laserdisc never got off the ground like DVD has, but it originally had two formats, too.
Sony is testing a 100GB Blu-ray and if it is successful, HD-DVD is DOA, IMO.

[DVdude]

Aug 23, 6:50 AM (ET)
By HIROKO TABUCHI

TOKYO (AP) - Japanese electronics giants Sony and Toshiba have failed to agree on a unified format for next-generation DVDs, according to a newspaper report Tuesday.

Talks have been suspended indefinitely between a group of companies led by Sony Corp. (SNE), which supports the Blu-ray format, and the Toshiba Corp.-led bloc, which backs the HD DVD format, Japan's Yomiuri newspaper reported.

Spokesmen from both firms refused to verify the report, each saying they have not ruled out the possibility of further talks. However, both said that the development of products containing their respective DVD formats was already underway.

"Next-generation optical disks that are robust enough to stay relevant for more than 10 years are required to take advantage of high-definition video and high-quality audio, and the 0.1 mm (Blu-ray) disk structure is advantageous in this regard," said Taro Takamine, a Sony spokesman.

Sony's Blu-ray disks have a more sophisticated format and play back 25 GB of data compared with HD DVD's 15, but are more expensive to produce.

The two blocs developed their DVD formats separately, but growing concern about confusion among consumers over the different formats prompted Sony and Toshiba to start negotiations on a unified format earlier this year.

Takamine said while Sony remains open to discussion with the Toshiba bloc, the firm's goal is to agree on a single - not unified, or jointly developed - format.

"We have no intention on settling on a compromised format that only plays back 20 GB, for example," Takamine said.

Toshiba spokesman Junko Furuta also acknowledged that a unified format did not look likely for the time being.

"We have doubts as to whether the Blu-ray format is a viable technology in terms of production cost," she said. "We're also not convinced that consumers would need to store so much data on disks, especially now that internal harddrives are more popular."

Furuta also said the more sophisticated Blu-ray disks would be harder to adopt for use in laptop computers, as well as in car navigation systems, also popular in Japan.

Both sides are already developing products that feature the respective DVD formats. Toshiba plans to roll out HD DVD players by the end of this year, while Sony's popular game console PlayStation 3, which will play Blu-ray disks, is due out in spring 2006.

Major entertainment companies are also split in their support of the two formats. Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox support the Blu-ray format, while Toshiba has won the backing of companies like Warner Brothers and Universal Pictures.

Source: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050823/D8C5FV000.html
and
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050824/D8C5SIQ00.html

[DVdude]

Toshiba President: Two DVD Formats Staying

Aug 24, 10:34 AM (ET)

TOKYO (AP) - Toshiba Corp.'s president said Wednesday his company has no plans to revive failed talks with a Sony Corp. (SNE)-led consortium to find a unified format for next-generation DVDs, indicating that two rival - and incompatible - formats of the discs are here to stay.

"There's no plan for (resuming) such talks at this moment" with Sony, Toshiba President and Chief Executive Officer Atsutoshi Nishida said.

Toshiba Corp. leads a group supporting the HD DVD format, while the Sony-led bloc backs the Blu-ray format.

Nishida said it was very likely that DVD products using the two different formats will remain on the market for the time being, but he added Toshiba hasn't given up efforts to unify the next-generation DVD formats...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050824/D8C68B7O0.html

[gparris]

While there are many Toshiba supporters out there, based on their personal experiences, I am not one of them based on my own experiences with their products.
That said, it is sad for the HDTV owner and future buyers that Toshiba cannot work with Sony (and the reverse).
I will not buy into what seems like a weak format Toshiba is launching.
Although the identity of the new format will click with the consumer (HD-DVD), unlike the name, "Blu-ray" from Sony, the max out of usable space from Toshiba's product is not a big seller, IMO.
Despite the Blu-ray name, which could be a catchy name with the right marketing, perhaps, the technology seems more progressive than the Toshiba's.
All it will take is demand for the Blu-ray disc over time and you will see Universal and Viacom (Paramount) movies/series on the high def DVD offering theirs on the competing format...it is all about money and Toshiba's will take a back seat and fall off just like Sony's old Beta tapes did.
With additional demand, the pricing structure that is considered such an advantage with HD-DVD over Blu-ray with dissolve as it does with all electronics as demand builds for the Sony product, negating the so-called advantage, too.
Toshiba: You have an option to move with Sony, now, before you loose everything on this format war.
Dragging out the format just because your company can do it only confuses the consumers in the end and you will not recover your costs, anyway, only worsen the "bottom line" in the end after introduction (and failure of product).

[DVdude]

Latest News:

Time is running out for optical disc format compromise

By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service

A format battle between HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc in the race to replace DVD looks increasingly inevitable as time quickly runs out for a compromise. Supporters of both formats agree that compromise would benefit the entire industry but talks are stalled and HD-DVD backers will soon need to begin final design and development of products if they are to meet their commercialization schedule.
Both formats can hold considerably more data than a DVD and are being promoted as replacements for DVD for high-definition movie content.
The HD-DVD group has committed to having products in the market before the end of 2005. It typically requires two to three months to bring a product to market from the beginning of design, so with just over four months left until the end of the year there’s not much time for talk. Waiting longer would leave the market open for Blu-ray Disc...

Full Story: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/08/23/optical/index.php/index.php?pf=1

---

Universal Music Group Joins Blu-ray Disc Association

Universal Music Group, the world's largest music company, has joined the Blu-ray Disc Association as a contributing member. The addition of UMG to the association's lineup of more than 140 companies in the hardware, software, consumer electronics, and information technology industries is expected to have a major impact on how music is created and enjoyed by consumers.

Source (PDF): http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/050815-13037.pdf

[rewjr]

Who cares while they battle for supremacy other technologies are gonna motor on by -

HVD :
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000447030408/

HD PVR :
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000757038656/

I will wait and use my Samsung HD-950 with present DVD
collection untill the winner is declared...

[DVdude]

I agree... it may be best to take a wait-and-see attitude with this battle.
---

Toshiba reviewing HD-DVD launch plans

By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service

Sept. 1, 2005 - Toshiba Corp. is reviewing the launch schedule for HD-DVD, a next-generation optical disc format for high-definition video, and could delay its U.S. launch until sometime next year, it said on Thursday.

Toshiba is the main backer of the format, which also counts support from NEC Corp., Sanyo Electric Co. Ltd. and a number of major content producers. The original plan, announced at the International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas in January, was to launch HD-DVD (High-Density DVD) hardware and software in the U.S. and Japan before the end of this year. At the time, three movie studios announced a total of 89 movies that would be available at or near the launch time.
While the Japan launch plans remain on track and Toshiba said it will begin hardware production this year, the U.S. launch is likely to be re-timed...

On Thursday, the Mainichi Shimbun, a major Japanese national daily, reported the U.S. launch of HD-DVD will take place in March next year.

Full Story: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/09/01/dhdvd/index.php/index.php?pf=1

[wifeB8]

What a convoluted mess this is turning into…………

http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=13465&hed=Blu-ray%2C+HD-DVD+Player+Seen+&sector=Industries&subsector=EntertainmentAndMedia

Go Sammy…………….Go Sammy………Go

[pcoffman]

looks like at those prices though it may be better to wait for the second generation players. remember how fast dvd players dropped in price just after the first year. I will def. want to get one though but maybe when they are under the $1000 price range. my wife would have my hide... ;)

[DVdude]

I also think the prices will drop drastically, either after there is either a winner in this battle of players, or both sides try to undercut the price of the other side to get their players to the masses faster.
---

Sonic Announces Support for Blu-ray in Roxio Consumer Products and AuthorScript SDK
Showcases Blu-ray Creation and Playback at IFA

IFA 2005, Berlin (September 2, 2005) — Sonic Solutions (NASDAQ: SNIC), the leader in digital media software, today announced broad support for Blu-ray Disc in its Roxio -branded DigitalMedia Archive™ , Easy Archive™ and DigitalMedia Studio™ consumer software products. In addition, Sonic announced its AuthorScript Blu-ray software development kit (SDK), enabling third-party PC application and consumer electronics chip, middleware and application developers to deliver Blu-ray-based recording and playback solutions. T ogether, these Blu-ray-related developments highlight Sonic's continued leadership in the optical media recording and playback market as the new high-capacity, high-definition Blu-ray Disc format moves toward consumer launch.

Full Story: http://www.roxio.com/en/company/news/archive/prelease_09_02_05.jhtml

[gparris]

Recently, Samsung announced it will deliver a universal player to market that does both HD-DVD and Blu-ray if no agreement to combine with one format comes forth at price less than if the two were bought separately. :D

This would quite effectively keep either side from getting their single-format players being sold, IMO.
If the consumer finds out they can stay ahead with one player from Samsung, why bother with Sony and Toshiba for high-def DVD players?

If anything could make those manufacturers come back and agree on one format, this could be it.
The whole incentive to the formats (and stubborness on both sides) is money and if Samsung sort of takes away the buyers with a single machine, their payback is sort of lost...at least that is the way I vision it.
While I never bought Samsung-anything before, I probably will if the price is right and the player build quality is good. :)

[Matt27]

Never going to happen, if sony knew samsung was doing an agreement with HD-DVD then say bye bye samsung from the blu-ray board.

Samsung is part of the blu-ray committe and "IF" they make a universal player without sony's and the whole blu-ray groups decent,expect to see samsung get kicked off the blu-ray board. :mic:

[Ratman]

I disagree.

As long as they pay the fee (copyright/patent rights) to use the technologies, they can market whatever they want and both consortiums still win (profits).

[gparris]

Ratman is right...as long as Samsumg plays by the rules, Sony, as well as Toshiba have no say in it.
See link:http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/0905/08.dualplayer.html
I can hardly wait, now.

[Matt27]

That's a big "IF" but yes they could if they play by the rules right.

I think eventually though,especially with the PS3 next year there is bound to be a format standard,hopefully Blu-ray since it's more future ready when people need more space later on.

[Ratman]

"IF" or not.

There are no rules. There's only financial gain.

Even "if" Blu-Ray were to lose what everyone thinks is a contest. Is it really that bad?

IMO, whatever format (or multiple format) prevails, it's better than what we have available today. And... will be obsolete in less that two years as some new technoloy becomes available.

Moore's Law could be applied...

[Matt27]

AVS forum in the dvd players forum, your answers can be found there!

[Ratman]

Is there a particular thread that answers the questions?

I didn't see anything there more enlightening than what's been discussed here. Announcements and opinions.

[Matt27]

sorry about that, the Samsung HD DVD universal player thread that's the one.

[Ratman]

I didn't see anything there more enlightening than what's been discussed here.

Ditto :sherlok:

[Matt27]

No Problem;)

I just thought there was more information on the topic, but i guess not since we pretty much covered the same here.

Still a nice read though.

[DVdude]

Latest News on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray front...

Toshiba HD DVD Update

HD DVD was once again being displayed at this year’s CEDIA Expo and once again the technology looked fantastic. Toshiba was showing their HD XA1 DVD player. But the real news was not the demonstration, but the specific comment by the manufacturer's representative that Toshiba will start shipping their HD DVD player the first quarter of 2006 with or without a commitment from the studios to provide content. When asked about software price, the manufacturer's representative also indicated that there would be a "small monetary premium" over standard DVD prices. We're not sure what that means in terms of real expected software prices but we'll hopefully find out next year.

Source: http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/cedia2004/ToshibaHDDVDupdate.php

---

Sony expects Blu-Ray victory within 12 months

PlayStation 3 fingered as a key driver for pushing adoption of next-gen DVD standard

The recent delay to the roll-out of Toshiba's next-gen DVD standard, HD-DVD, has led a senior Sony Pictures executive to confidently predict that Sony's rival Blu-Ray standard will dominate the market within 12 months...

Full Story: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=11450

[DVdude]

BIG News for HD DVD:

Intel, Microsoft Back Next-Generation DVDs

Sep 27, 12:32 AM (ET)
By MATTHEW FORDAHL

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - Intel Corp. (INTC) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT), the leading suppliers of chips and software for most of the world's personal computers, are throwing their support behind the next-generation DVD standard known as HD DVD.

After taking a neutral stance for months in the battle between the competing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats, the companies said Tuesday they have joined the HD DVD Promotion Group that includes Toshiba Corp., Universal Studios and others.

The move means upcoming PCs running Microsoft's upcoming Windows Vista operating system or Intel's Viiv entertainment technology will come with support for HD DVD drives...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050927/D8CSCN080.html

--

Also...

Toshiba Develops Dual-Layer HD DVD-R Discs

Toshiba Corporation today reconfirmed the flexibility and expandability of the HD DVD format with the announcement of a 30GB dual-layer HD-R (recordable) disc that extends the capacity for a write-once next generation DVD disc. The new disc was approved as Version 1.9 at the September 14 meeting of the DVD Forum's Steering Committee, and its technical information will be made available as the Version 1.9 specifications...

[Matt27]

Great!... microsoft just alienated all their companies they rely on in the blu-ray camp.

I can see this war being a long one because of this, why can't they just pick Blu-ray and be done with it!

Then we finally would get a format, plus Blu-ray is better anyway!

[soze]

this means nothing - they do not manuafacture dvd drives or players or computer systems...Dell who is in the blu-ray camp should just drop Intel and go with AMD - and Microsoft is strategically always wrong and plays catch up...

IMO

[Ratman]

Can anyone answer why Blu-ray is "better" than HD-DVD other than storage capacity?

I find all of this amusing...

[soze]

i think they are both good formats - the reason why most people want Blu-ray to succeed are mostly in the computer field and consumer electronics...I do not want a prolonged battle between formats...I really want the format one format to win and not make the other format obsolete for those in the other camp

I think the blu-ray camp covers all tech. areas to succeed ie computers with blu-ray drives and Panasonic and Sony with DVD players -

But I really think HD-DVD is going to fail - yes they have many of studio backing but the main electronic players are mostly Panny and Sony- Dell, the largest comp. manufacturer, is certainly going to put as many blu ray dvd drives to push the standard..

nobody wants a format war...but lets have it quickly decided for the main consumers..

what ya think?

[Matt27]

Can anyone answer why Blu-ray is "better" than HD-DVD other than storage capacity?

I find all of this amusing...


That's easy, if you just look at the people backing blu-ray, and then glance at the peole backing HD-DVD...Who would you trust?

My moneys on blu-ray..I don't trust the companies backing HD DVD..all cheap companies.

Maybe if you cleaned your glasses,you would clearly see this :D

JK..lol

Matt Suzuki~

[Ratman]

That's really not a qualified answer.

As a hypothetical...
If the 'backers' roles were reversed (I.E. Sony hyped HD-DVD), would that automatically make HD-DVD better?

So, any thoughts about post #125?

[LeeS]

Can anyone answer why Blu-ray is "better" than HD-DVD other than storage capacity?

I find all of this amusing...

Other than capacity, NO. There are some negatives when it comes to manufacturing but that has been discussed.

Lee

[wifeB8]

That's easy, if you just look at the people backing blu-ray, and then glance at the peole backing HD-DVD...Who would you trust?

My moneys on blu-ray..I don't trust the companies backing HD DVD..all cheap companies.................


Interesting!..................What makes you so trustful of the Blu-ray group?

Paying premium prices does not equate to better quality, and that is what Blue-ray will bring to the table - premium prices for their technology. From all reports both technologies offer the same visual quality. With that being equal I can’t see how you arrive at your opinion that lower manufacturing cost somehow equates to a lesser product.

[soze]

i dont trust either group but for my purposes if I was buying a DVD player or a computer it I would have purchased a BLu-ray product by default -
a sony/panny/dell/hewlett packard?

as per quest#125 BETA was better - why did it fail and why did VHS win...it has nothing to do with if it's better...like I said before - you have to weigh the pros and cons with each format...which will survive?

then this comes in!!!

more news on the HD-DVD front!

Toshiba delays U.S. HD DVD player launch
Wednesday 28 September 2005, 1:40am EST
Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints | RSS

TOKYO, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Japan's Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Wednesday it would delay its launch of next-generation HD DVD players in the U.S. market to around February or March, revising its prior plan for a year-end start date.

Toshiba, Japan's second-largest electronics conglomerate, said it still planned to introduce HD DVD players in the Japanese market by year-end.

[Ratman]

Beta was better for picture quality. So does that mean that Blu-ray is 'better' because it's backed by Sony? (and let's not go off-topic with a Beta vs. VHS debate). And I agree with weighing the pros and cons of each format. But again... other than storage capacity, what makes Blu-ray 'better'? What are the pros and cons? :)

The only thing I see is that the "Sony owners" want to justify/reinforce their purchasing descisions upon others.

I see (or am not aware) no other technical advantages from comparing both formats.

[soze]

when I say "better" I mean less riskier for the consumers in having a product that will lose to the one who finally wins that format not neccessarily the best product(again BETA vs VHS)

the ones who who manufacture the players will prolly win...SONY, PANNY, SAMSUNG..these are some heavy hitters here

[DVdude]

HD-DVD actually has several compelling reasons why Microsoft and Intel choose it over Blu-Ray. Here's a rundown...

Microsoft and Intel cited the following consumer and industry requirements of any successful next-generation optical format for high definition, which is reflected by what HD DVD delivers today:

-Managed Copy: A first for DVDs. Managed Copy is a guaranteed feature within HD DVD that gives consumers the freedom to make copies of their discs to a hard drive or home server, including Media Center PCs using Intel Viiv technology, and enjoy them in every room of the house over their home networks. HD DVD discs also will allow copies of the movie to be played on portable devices.

-"Future-proof" compatibility. Using proven HD DVD "hybrid disc" technology, a single disc can store both high-definition and standard-definition versions of a film, allowing consumers to immediately enjoy the standard-definition movies stored on these discs on today's DVD players, while HD movies can be replayed later on the HD DVD platform. This is an opportunity for consumers to buy discs at launch that future proof their collections — in other words, helping assure customers that the discs they buy will remain viewable in the future.

-Proven low-cost, high-volume manufacturing: HD DVD discs use essentially the same manufacturing equipment as existing DVDs, meaning that production of HD DVD can ramp up easily and with lower costs.

-Superior capacity: HD DVD-ROM discs will offer dual-layer 30GB discs at launch, compared with BD-ROM discs, which will be limited to 25GB. Superior interactivity. HD DVD discs will offer greater interactivity using iHD technology, allowing for enhanced content, navigation and value-added functionality for high-definition films. For example, HD DVDs can offer advanced picture-in-picture capability so that other video, such as a director's commentary, could play on top of the movie.

-Superior format for notebook PCs: The compatibility of HD DVD with standard DVD facilitates and simplifies development of slim disc drives for integration in notebook PCs, one of the fastest-growing segments of the PC market.

[Matt27]

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/s...04135071&EDATE=

[Ratman]

Bad link...

[DVdude]

Paramount Backs Blu-Ray Format for DVDs

Oct 2, 6:14 PM (ET)

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Paramount Home Entertainment is the latest company to back the Blu-ray Disc format as the next-generation DVD standard.

Paramount said Sunday it will join a growing list of media and technology companies endorsing Blu-ray that includes Sony Corp. (SNE), Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL), Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc. (DELL)

Paramount will still market all its DVD movies in the competing HD DVD format so consumers can have a choice, company officials said...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051002/D8D05NPO0.html

[Matt27]

dam sorry about that, well it can be found in the home thater gaming section of AVS forums if anyones still interested, it's probably old news now:)

[DVdude]

Next-Generation DVD War Heats Up in Tokyo

Oct 4, 7:02 AM (ET)
By YURI KAGEYAMA

(AP - Photo) Model displays Toshiba Corp.'s prototype of HD DVD player and HD DVD-ROM discs with 30GB data at...

TOKYO (AP) - The war over the next-generation DVD standard is playing out full force at a sprawling electronics exhibition opening near Tokyo Tuesday with Japanese electronics companies on both sides expressing confidence for victory.

The CEATEC 2005 exhibition in Chiba, Japan, is opening as the battle escalated a notch after Paramount Pictures, which had previously supported the HD DVD backed by Toshiba Corp., became the first major movie studio to support both rival formats...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051004/D8D162RO8.html

[gparris]

"Paramount will still market all its DVD movies in the competing HD DVD format so consumers can have a choice, company officials said"
So Warner and Universal will do the same, right?
Maybe Universal, but Warner has some stake in HD DVD, so I think if that happens with Universal,
Warner will be stuck with its own technology if HD DVD fails and few buying their high def DVDs.
What I find curious is the computer manufacturers are doing BD and the largest software maker/chip producer is doing HD DVD...what a mess!

[jj9126]

FYI - Video Business is reporting that Warner Bros. is going to produce product for the Blu Ray format as well.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2005/tc2005105_6128_tc024.htm

The mag seems to be framing this as another major blow to the hd-dvd camp (exclusivity would have been a positive for them), but I think we still have a long ways to go before any truce can be reached...

[Ratman]

The message is that the studios are now looking to produce DVD in both formats so they don't 'miss out'.

Since it appears that there will be two formats (for the forseeable furture) the studios would be foolish to lock into only one format.

Bad news is... this will only jack up the prices of software for the consumer.

I'm sure we will see more of these types of announcements from other studios as we get closer to the retail sale of hardware.

[deckard]

The message is that the studios are now looking to produce DVD in both formats so they don't 'miss out'.

Correction:
The message is that the HD DVD studios are now looking to produce DVD in both formats so they don't 'miss out'.
:D

[Ratman]

Huh?

To elucidate...

The message is that the Movie Industries are now looking to provide DVD in both formats so they don't 'miss out'.

Is that clear enough? :(

[kevinw]

This leads me to the PS3. If the games are on Blu-Ray discs... then EVERYONE that owns a PS3 now has a Blu-Ray player... key in the race. this is 30+ million blu-ray players alone, just because people like to play games (and not the case for XBOX 360 owners "stuck" with traditional DVD).

--
This is a strange point. Remember how many people bought a PS2 because it could double as aDVD player.I'll bet nearly everyone of them ended up buying a real DVD player anyway. I know I di because the PS2 was for games and it was not that good of a DVD player. I cant imagagine anyone buying either an Xbox or a PS3 for the DVD abilities. Plus PS3 is not on the market yet.

[kevinw]

Interesting!..................What makes you so trustful of the Blu-ray group?

Paying premium prices does not equate to better quality, and that is what Blue-ray will bring to the table - premium prices for their technology. From all reports both technologies offer the same visual quality. With that being equal I can’t see how you arrive at your opinion that lower manufacturing cost somehow equates to a lesser product.
IF I may add- think TERK, Monster and Bose..Premium prices but is the quality better.. Not that we have not discussed this before :D

[kevinw]

HD-DVD actually has several compelling reasons why Microsoft and Intel choose it over Blu-Ray. Here's a rundown...

Microsoft and Intel cited the following consumer and industry requirements of any successful next-generation optical format for high definition, which is reflected by what HD DVD delivers today:

-Managed Copy: A first for DVDs. Managed Copy is a guaranteed feature within HD DVD that gives consumers the freedom to make copies of their discs to a hard drive or home server, including Media Center PCs using Intel Viiv technology, and enjoy them in every room of the house over their home networks. HD DVD discs also will allow copies of the movie to be played on portable devices.

-"Future-proof" compatibility. Using proven HD DVD "hybrid disc" technology, a single disc can store both high-definition and standard-definition versions of a film, allowing consumers to immediately enjoy the standard-definition movies stored on these discs on today's DVD players, while HD movies can be replayed later on the HD DVD platform. This is an opportunity for consumers to buy discs at launch that future proof their collections — in other words, helping assure customers that the discs they buy will remain viewable in the future.

-Proven low-cost, high-volume manufacturing: HD DVD discs use essentially the same manufacturing equipment as existing DVDs, meaning that production of HD DVD can ramp up easily and with lower costs.

-Superior capacity: HD DVD-ROM discs will offer dual-layer 30GB discs at launch, compared with BD-ROM discs, which will be limited to 25GB. Superior interactivity. HD DVD discs will offer greater interactivity using iHD technology, allowing for enhanced content, navigation and value-added functionality for high-definition films. For example, HD DVDs can offer advanced picture-in-picture capability so that other video, such as a director's commentary, could play on top of the movie.

-Superior format for notebook PCs: The compatibility of HD DVD with standard DVD facilitates and simplifies development of slim disc drives for integration in notebook PCs, one of the fastest-growing segments of the PC market.
Well put neighbor :D

[deckard]

Huh?

To elucidate...

The message is that the Movie Industries are now looking to provide DVD in both formats so they don't 'miss out'.

Is that clear enough? :(

No it isn't clear enough, not even close...
IF you want to twist "Warner & Universal expected to go Blu-ray" into the movie industry releasing their content on both formats then be my guest. It's BS and you know it. There hasn't been any inkling of SONY/MGM, Disney, FOX, and Lion's Gate supporting HD DVD as well as BD and until there is your version of the message is as foggy as it gets...

[LeeS]

To no one in particular,

:rant on:

Sony and Toshiba are not going to get together. We can safely say that is a given considering past experience.

For those studios that are not going to release on both formats, there are already plans on the board for dual format players. Whoopie :whistle:

PS3 with Blu-ray is a year out. Who knows about Toshiba, maybe Q1 2006 for a player. Xbox 360 with a HD DVD drive, who knows for sure.

I'm normally an early adopter, but I'm waiting this one out.

I don't play DVD movies on a game box and won't be playing HD movies on a game box.

Who really cares :), three months or less from now its all going to change anyway but it is fun to speculate. (hell, it will all probably change next month)

Dual layer recordable DVDs are finally down to around $2 ea on sale (name brands). Any clue as to what a recordable HD-DVD or Blu-ray is going to cost? Or the recorder? What you going to record on it anyway? Maybe DVD Shrink HD will be out (oh, they are not upgrading Shrink anymore), or perhaps DVD Decryptor HD, (oh yeah, Sony shut him down). How many years before HD DVD burning is where regular DVD is now? And there are still problems with burner/media compatibility.

HD-DVD or Blu-ray for storage? Geez, buy a 250g external USB2 hard drive for $100 after rebate at Fry's Outpost.

How many DVD movies are you willing to upgrade to HD? How many are out on HD-DVD or Blu-ray? Until Toshiba backed out there were going to be 89 movies on HD DVD for the holidays, maybe 4 I was even remotely interested in. How many Blu-ray titles are there? Not possibilities, available now?

I want true HD movies, not some upconverted crap. I can get that from HBO HD, SHO HD etc. If it doesn't look like Discovery HD, I'm not having any.

One final thought before I 'rant off'.

Personally I'm pulling for some third party to step in and screw both Toshiba and Sony to the wall for being asses and not providing us with a single hybrid format.

:rant off:

Ok, I'm done and I feel better :)

IMHO, of course,
Lee

[deckard]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVdude
HD-DVD actually has several compelling reasons why Microsoft and Intel choose it over Blu-Ray. Here's a rundown...

Microsoft and Intel cited the following consumer and industry requirements of any successful next-generation optical format for high definition, which is reflected by what HD DVD delivers today:

-Managed Copy: A first for DVDs. Managed Copy is a guaranteed feature within HD DVD that gives consumers the freedom to make copies of their discs to a hard drive or home server, including Media Center PCs using Intel Viiv technology, and enjoy them in every room of the house over their home networks. HD DVD discs also will allow copies of the movie to be played on portable devices.

-"Future-proof" compatibility. Using proven HD DVD "hybrid disc" technology, a single disc can store both high-definition and standard-definition versions of a film, allowing consumers to immediately enjoy the standard-definition movies stored on these discs on today's DVD players, while HD movies can be replayed later on the HD DVD platform. This is an opportunity for consumers to buy discs at launch that future proof their collections — in other words, helping assure customers that the discs they buy will remain viewable in the future.

-Proven low-cost, high-volume manufacturing: HD DVD discs use essentially the same manufacturing equipment as existing DVDs, meaning that production of HD DVD can ramp up easily and with lower costs.

-Superior capacity: HD DVD-ROM discs will offer dual-layer 30GB discs at launch, compared with BD-ROM discs, which will be limited to 25GB. Superior interactivity. HD DVD discs will offer greater interactivity using iHD technology, allowing for enhanced content, navigation and value-added functionality for high-definition films. For example, HD DVDs can offer advanced picture-in-picture capability so that other video, such as a director's commentary, could play on top of the movie.

-Superior format for notebook PCs: The compatibility of HD DVD with standard DVD facilitates and simplifies development of slim disc drives for integration in notebook PCs, one of the fastest-growing segments of the PC market.

And in fairness...
Official rebuttal to HD-DVD claims:

Hot on the heels of the yesterday's report, the Blu-ray Disc Association released an announcement in an effort to directly respond to the claims of Intel and Microsoft.

"Microsoft and Intel's announcement erroneously indicates that HD-DVD has an advantage in a number of areas," the BDA says. Continuing, the Association indicates the key facts that have been overlooked by Microsoft/Intel:

Capacity: Blu-ray Disc’s capacity is 50GB. This will be available at launch for BD-ROM, BD-R, and BD-RE. This is 67% more than HD-DVD’s 30GB ROM capacity and 150% more than its recordable storage capacity – a critical issue for computer users.

Managed copy: Managed Copy is not a function of the optical disc format, but a function of the content protection system. The AACS content protection system, which is used by both Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD, enables managed copy and network streaming functionality. It is not format specific.

Hybrid Disc: Blu-ray Disc was the first format to introduce a hybrid disc that could hold both high and standard definition versions of a movie on a single disc. The Blu-ray Hybrid Disc is the more elegant solution as it holds both versions of the film on the same side of the disc, which provides for easy labeling and greater ease of use for consumers.

Backward Compatibility: Blu-ray Disc players and recorders can and will support DVDs through the addition of red lasers in the hardware. In order to be backward compatible with DVD, HD-DVD must also include a red laser.

Interactivity: Blu-ray disc is built on BD-JavaTM, which leverages years of industry investment and experience in the set-top box, PC, and cell phone industries. BD-JavaTM provides a mature, robust platform for authoring and delivering unprecedented interactive capabilities to the
user for movies, music, and games. BD-Java was selected over iHD, the developmental Microsoft technology used in HD-DVD. The BDA carefully compared both iHD and BD-J, and concluded that iHD didn’t go far enough in providing a compelling feature set beyond DVD, while BD-J offered
studios a much richer palette for providing a compelling interactive HD experience for consumers, particularly when a player is connected to a network.

"We are actively engaged with our customers who continue to tell us that features such as capacity, advanced interactivity, and industry wide support are of utmost importance when considering new optical solutions," said Kevin Kettler, Chief Technology Officer, Dell, Inc. "Based on this feedback and a comparison of the two formats, Dell has no doubt that Blu-ray Disc best meets the needs of computer users and provides the type of open industry standards needed to drive innovation and growth of the format across all platforms - consumer electronic, personal computers and gaming consoles."

[Ratman]

No it isn't clear enough, not even close...
IF you want to twist "Warner & Universal expected to go Blu-ray" into the movie industry releasing their content on both formats then be my guest. It's BS and you know it. There hasn't been any inkling of SONY/MGM, Disney, FOX, and Lion's Gate supporting HD DVD as well as BD and until there is your version of the message is as foggy as it gets...

WTF?
What crawled up your butt? No one is twisting anything and yes... it's conjecture, not BS! But IMO, eventually you will see all movie industries playing both both sides of the fence until one or the other winds up on top. Sheesh... the hardware isn't even on the shelves yet and it's beginning. To me, that indicates that the industries (that aren't Sony's "hand puppets") want to sell their products and get in a strategic marketing position, no matter the outcome.

Even Sony started to manufacture VHS hardware/software.

I'll try this one more time for your benefit:
It is in my opinion that we will eventually see more and more studios that will provide DVD's in both formats. :nono2:

[jj9126]

The message is that the studios are now looking to produce DVD in both formats so they don't 'miss out'.

Since it appears that there will be two formats (for the forseeable furture) the studios would be foolish to lock into only one format.

Bad news is... this will only jack up the prices of software for the consumer.


The problem is that WB was supposed to be THE big HD-DVD exclusive studio. That's why the trades are claiming this is a major blow.

Speaking of which: HD-DVD is doing a horrible job in terms of PR. Reading the trades / websites this week - you'd think that the format war was just about over. They need to step up and change that perception ASAP. The Microsoft announcement should have be huge, but it was completely overshadowed by the WB/Paramount Blu Ray stuff.

This is a strange point. Remember how many people bought a PS2 because it could double as aDVD player.I'll bet nearly everyone of them ended up buying a real DVD player anyway. I know I di because the PS2 was for games and it was not that good of a DVD player. I cant imagagine anyone buying either an Xbox or a PS3 for the DVD abilities. Plus PS3 is not on the market yet.

It's a different situation though. DVD was already a 4+ year old format when PS2s were released. DVD players were fairly affordable to the masses.

I'm not sure how much of an impact the PS3 will be, mainly because I'm not sure how many potential buyers also own high definition sets.

For those that do - I can see some people "getting by" with their PS3's playback capabilities until the standard players come down in price (and if the players are 1k+, count me in that group). I can't see any viable reason for a PS3 owner to go HD-DVD, however.

Bottom line: this whole battle is going to come down to retailer support and marketing. Content is secondary in the short term...

[DVdude]

Personally I'm pulling for some third party to step in and screw both Toshiba and Sony to the wall for being asses and not providing us with a single hybrid format.

3rd Party... another format... you may be right on target...

China to Develop Its Own DVD Format

Oct 7, 5:50 AM (ET)
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN

SHANGHAI, China (AP) - For the second time in two years, China has announced plans to develop its own next-generation DVD standard to break the monopoly of foreign companies and avoid paying heavy licensing fees.

If successful, the move could add a new wrinkle to the battle between HD DVD and the competing Blu-ray Disc formats over which will become the dominant new DVD standard.

The official Xinhua News Agency said the new standard will be based on but incompatible with HD DVD, which is being promoted by Toshiba Corp. and Universal Studios, as well as Intel Corp. (INTC) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT), the leading suppliers of chips and software for most of the world's personal computers.

The Chinese standard, not expected to reach markets until at least 2008, would provide higher definition, better sound and better anti-piracy measures, Xinhua quoted Lu Da, deputy director of the government-affiliated National Disc Engineering Center, as saying earlier this week...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051007/D8D349NO9.html

[Matt27]

Microsoft and Intel are hardly a worry, they don't make movies only computer software so they are mostly icing on the cake for HD-DVD.

Hopefully by the end of this year or by early 2006 there will be a winner, i'm presuming Blu-ray since most of the movie companies are behind it.

Why go for HD-DVD when all the movies are on blu-ray, it's kind of hard to justify that alone.If Time Warner and Universal follow suit like paramount, and likely will, it's going to be hard to support HD-DVD when your only left with Intel and Microsoft who don't even make movies!

IMO if i had to make a prediction, i think by the end of this year or first quarter of 2006 Blu-ray will be the format of choice and Toshiba will admit defeat.Because i honestly can't see HD-DVD succeding by then.

Well, there you have it...Hopefully by early next year we will start to see these new High def movies, since that's what we want..to see movie in High DEf. Now i'm not replacing my whole library of movies, only the ones that i like and would want to see in HD resolutions.

I'm like everyone else, i just want to watch movies in High Def as soon as possible.

[jj9126]

I'm like everyone else, i just want to watch movies in High Def as soon as possible.

Agreed, although many people seem to be rabid towards one format or the other - we all want the same thing in the end.

Bottom line:
I think the HD-DVD camp has some major obstacles to overcome (quickly) or they're in trouble.

Blu-Ray is definately surging ahead at this point - but I'm really worried about how they're going to market their product. After all - "HD-DVD" tells you pretty much everything you need to know. I can see a lot of customers confused by what exactly "Blu Ray" means. Is it too late for a name change?

[DVdude]

Microsoft and Intel are hardly a worry, they don't make movies only computer software so they are mostly icing on the cake for HD-DVD.

I think consumers will ultimately decide the winner in this battle, just as they did with Beta vs. VHS. Although Beta was better, VHS won out. It may be the same case here, that Blu-Ray may be better, but HD DVD may win out. Most consumers know that HD is High-Definition, but very few know what Blu-Ray means, unless they are into technology and following the format war.

--
And in reference to the above quote...

Ahhh... but computer software is becoming more than icing on the cake as Windows Media is enabling new distribution channels for the film industry via digital media enabled theaters. Eventually, nearly all theaters will go digital, so this is a factor not to be under estimated as the software with digital rights management is a key to the distribution.

Here's a few highlights:

Landmark Theaters (www.landmarktheatres.com), the nation's largest independent chain specializing in independent and foreign films, is in the process of adding DCS playback units into all of its 54 theaters. Windows Media 9 encoded movies have been playing on several Landmark screens...

DCS' Steele said high-end systems may cost as much as $200,000. By contrast, he said Digital Cinema Solution's core product, built around Intel and Dell Computer components running Microsoft software, costs about $70,000.

A few sources:

Digital Cinema Solutions
http://www.lightspeedpub.com/Articles/digital_cinema.html

Microsoft preps for digital film close-up
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-963987.html

The Windows Media Digital Cinema Process
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/howto/articles/DigitalCinemaProcess.aspx

Digital Media Distribution Opportunities for the Film Industry
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/disopwhitepaper.aspx

[yyz28]

Amazing... I hope Samsung comes through with their promise of a dual format player. Problem frickin' solved.

...I'm more worried about the 1080 compatibility with component only connections on my Mitsu 55511. Any word on that of late? Can we expect HD DVD/BLU RAY players to pump 1080 signal via component cables, or are we HDMI DVI only at this point?

[DVdude]

...I'm more worried about the 1080 compatibility with component only connections on my Mitsu 55511. Any word on that of late? Can we expect HD DVD/BLU RAY players to pump 1080 signal via component cables, or are we HDMI DVI only at this point?

The average component video cable may not be able to handle the high bandwidth requirements, as 1080p is twice the bandwidth of 720p and 1080i. But, I have seen some component cables with bandwidth ratings up to 350MHz, so this may not be an issue. The main drawback is that 1080p content is protected with HDCP and component video does not support this. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players will only output HD (720p, 1080i or 1080p) over HDMI with HDCP. Component output will be limited to 480p and 576p (due to copy protection).

That being said, there are still solutions available, such as the NeuNeo HVD2085 HD DVD Player that will pass 1080p over component via upscaling/upconverting. Since this is an upconvert, they may not be using the "Full HD" bandwidth, so this may not be a true 1080p signal, but would still be a viable solution for your Mitsu set.

http://neodigits.com/body/product/hvd208/feature.asp


HD Bandwidth requirements:

HD resolutions of 720p (1280 x 720 pixels @ 60 Hz refresh) and 1080i (1920 x 1080 pixels @ 30 Hz refresh) require the exact same amount of bandwidth. This is because both systems use a pixel clock frequency of 74.25 MHz in the analog domain. In the digital domain, DVI and HDMI signals based on these resolutions have a bit rate of 742.5 Mbit/sec.

1080p (1920 x 1080 pixels @ 60 Hz refresh) requires double the bandwidth of 720p and 1080i. The SMPTE 274M standard defines the pixel frequency for 1080p/60 as 148.5 MHz and the digital bit rate is 1.485 Gbit/sec.

[Ratman]

The average component video cable may not be able to handle the high bandwidth requirements, as 1080p is twice the bandwidth of 720p and 1080i. .

Component cables are coaxial.
Coax cable has a bandwidth capability of a least 2 GHz of higher.

Any limitations that are imposed is due to HDCP (which is digital) and therefore not compatible with component connections (which are analog).

[Matt27]

Does anybody not have a set capable of HDMI?

I know i'm all set, sorry to hear about the ones with no support of it :(

[Intimidator#3]

Well this war has already been one! All the major network most of the movie industry is going Blu-ray. So your future movies will be on Blu-Ray disk which I cant waite to see HD moives on Disk. Now that your major movie companys have already said that they plan on useing Blu-Ray. Then you console folks the PS3 will have a Blu-Ray drive so it's easy to see that the PC Industry and movie will be on the Blu-Ray side.

Read more here and take a look at the new players so on from the top manufactures which most already have players and recorders made.

http://www.blu-ray.com/

[Ratman]

Z-z-z-z....
Read the previous 8 pages of threads. Some industries are committed BRD, some HD-DVD, some both. No winners until there's one format.

How can a "war" be won when neither has hardware or software available yet (for retail in the U.S.)? :whistle:

The only losers are the consumers.

[jj9126]

Ratman - there's no reason to be edgy. Relax.

In the meantime, I think you're downplaying the importance of the Universal & WB moves:

"...only Universal Studios Home Entertainment as the sole holdout uncommitted to releasing content on Blu-ray Disc. We may be approaching the point where HD DVD finds itself irrelevant." - DVDfile.com

"In addition to Paramount's announcement today, there seems to be a feeling in the industry that Warner and Universal may soon follow Paramount's lead in supporting both formats. The move almost certainly gives Blu-ray Disc an advantage in the format war, particularly if Warner and Universal do follow suit." - Thedigitalbits.com

There are literally dozens of similar quotes (from both the hardware & Hollywood POV) out there in the news. As I said in a previous post - HD-DVD is definately losing the Public Relations battle.

[Ratman]

I'm very relaxed, thanks!

I'm not downplaying but see no real significance. Why would anyone with any type of business sense lock into one format and potentially lose 50% or more of it's retail sale of movies? It has nothing to do with which format is winning or better.

Let's see what happens when the hardware and software hits the shelves. Ultimately, the consumer will be the deciding factor as to which format prevails.

[Matt27]

Exactly!

Untill it's out on the market, it's kind of hard to say if there is a clear winner or not.

[DVdude]

InterVideo-Ulead to Unleash the Superior Audio and Video Quality of HD DVD for Consumers

Advanced HD DVD Authoring, Burning and Playback Solutions Enabled Through Groundbreaking Development Work

FREMONT, Calif. - October 3, 2005 -- InterVideo®, Inc. (NASDAQ: IVII) and its partner Ulead® Systems, Inc., leading supporters of the HD DVD standard for high-definition video production and playback, announced today their HD DVD product offerings for DVD playback and multimedia creation will feature DTS™-HD audio support and support for content encoded in VC1, Microsoft® Windows® Media™-based format. A demonstration of this solution will be showcased at the CEATEC show, Hall 2, Booth # 2A-12 in Japan this week.

Microsoft's VC1 video codec is an ultra-efficient, fully scalable video technology that produces high-quality video at low data rates. With VC1 support, InterVideo-Ulead customers can enjoy video resolutions of up to 1080p--approximately six times the resolution of today's DVD video. The HD DVD format also provides higher disc capacities than the current 4.7GB DVD formats--an HD DVD disc will provide up to 30GB (15GB per layer) for storing rich, crystal-clear content.

"Consumers have told us they want their home videos to have the same visual quality as any Hollywood movie; and that's what these HD-DVD products from InterVideo-Ulead can deliver," said Eric Schmidt group product manager of the Windows Digital Media Division at Microsoft Corp. "Whether it is used by the professional content author or the novice at home, content created using our VC-1 implementation results in incredible high definition video experiences."

DTS-HD provides the highest-quality audio performance available in the new HD DVD format standard, while offering playback in legacy equipment, such as existing home theater systems. In addition to being able to support a virtually unlimited number of discrete surround sound channels, it can downmix to 5.1- and two-channel, and can deliver audio quality at bit rates extending from DTS Digital Surround up to lossless.

Full Press Release: http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Press.jsp?mode=10-03-2005B

--

Side Note (and another reason not to run out and buy the first generation HD players on the market):
It is important to mention that all first-generation HD players will down convert the high resolution audio signal (Dolby TrueHD) to standard DD 5.1 (but up to 640kbps) since TrueHD can only be passed via HDMI rev 1.3. Currently there are no interface chipsets in production to support HDMI rev 1.3, let alone receivers/processors to decode it.

Source: Home Theater Alliance 2005 CEDIA Coverage

Dolby TrueHD: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

[gparris]

Which means that we will be back to the old days of DVD years back when receivers were "Dolby Digital Ready" for 5.1 with our more recently-purchased A/V receivers, unable to decode the newer DTS-HD and Dolby's TrueHD audio, which what I have read is currently a discrete 7.1 for high def DVDs (but that could change).
Our current A/V receivers, do, however, have those (most of them do) have 7.1 analogue inputs, normally used for DVD-A and SACD players outputs (for 5.1 using only the 6 instead of 8 inputs) for this newer audio, so we don't really have to get new receivers (yet), just more cables for those connections if we desire them (or if it is required).
Since no high-def DVDs/players are even out yet and the fact the current crop of A/V receivers do not decode the new surround formats, I could care less.
I just know that whenever these come out, for sure, there will be a whole bunch of new A/V receivers for decoding and higher HDMI revs (above 1.1) to use for both sound and video transfer, to say nothing of HDMI switching.
New receivers today with HDMI switching will probably loose out if they cannot be upgraded for the higher standards besides not internally decoding the 7.1 discrete surround processing with the high def DVDs.

[jj9126]

New Video Business article on the battle is below. Obviously, it still sounds like Blu Ray has the momentum (I bolded the important parts) - BUT check out the section underlined...it's not all good news for Blu Ray.


Warner embraces Blu-ray
Universal now only studio solely in HD DVD camp
By Scott Hettrick and Paul Sweeting 10/19/2005

OCT. 19 | In the biggest victory yet for Sony and the backers of Blu-ray in the war over the next-gen high-def DVD, Warner Home Video is expected to announce Thursday that the studio is embracing its rival’s platform.

Warner has been the primary studio backer of Toshiba’s so-called HD DVD format, which is incompatible with Blu-ray.

The studio, which will continue to support HD DVD, has been threatening to release movies in both formats since last month (VideoBusiness.com, 10-2)

One of the two other major studios in the HD DVD camp, Paramount Home Entertainment, became the first studio to hedge its exclusivity with HD camp when it announced earlier this month that it would also publish movies on Blu-ray.

Warner was holding out for concessions by the Blu-ray group on a number of issues, particularly increased safeguards against unauthorized copying. Sources say the Blu-ray board voted at 5 p.m. Wednesday to approve revisions requested by Warner.

"This is something the HD DVD camp cannot recover from," said one executive close to the negotiations.

But Toshiba, which has been aware of Warner's impending decision, is planning to go forward with the introduction next year of its competing high-def DVD.

"The studios have decided to allow consumers to decide, and that's a shame," said one top studio exec.

Industry observers believe Warner and Paramount are hedging their bets with their moves on the chance that Sony will not be able to deliver as robust a product as they say in the timeframe they promise -- mid-2006 either slightly before or after the introduction of Sony's PlayStation 3, which will incorporate Blu-ray as well.

If Sony delivers, many studio execs say that Warner and Paramount will likely abandon the HD DVD platform. If not, media companies are under such pressure to deliver a new product to revive double-digit growth of pre-recorded movies, that they will go ahead with Toshiba's format.

One studio exec says that engineers re-evaluated the Blu-ray technology as recently as this week and concluded that it will not be ready to offer everything Sony promises for two more years. (JJ9126 - uh, this does not sound like a positive!)

With Warner's announcement, Universal Studios Home Entertainment is the lone studio solely in the HD DVD camp. Although the studio is not commenting officially, sources say Universal has no motivation to follow the lead of Warner and Paramount and will likely wait at least a few weeks and maybe much longer before making any announcements of its own.

Aligned solely with Sony on Blu-ray are Disney, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Sony's own studio and its co-owned MGM Home Entertainment and Lions Gate Home Entertainment.

Ironically, Warner's decision came on the same day that Blu-ray board member Hewlett-Packard tried to bring the two sides closer together by announcing that it would ask the Blu-ray Assn. to consider adding two key HD DVD technologies to the Blu-ray format, a mandatory "managed copy" system and "iHD," both enthusiastically supported by Warner.

Managed copy allows consumers to make legitimate copies of their high-def movies and play them anywhere around the world.

iHD, an interactive layer developed by Microsoft and Disney, enables new interactivity with standards-based development tools and technologies.

Sources said while H-P's efforts were in the direction Warner was already asking the Blu-ray group to move, the announcement had little, if any bearing on Warner's decision.

[jj9126]

This is a Reuters story from today. The comments from HD-DVD folks are interesting - mainly because it no longer sounds like they're coming from a position of power...


Blu-Ray winner in DVD war: industry group
By Sue Zeidler
Wed Oct 19, 4:44 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Technology group Forrester Research on Wednesday declared Blu-Ray, a new DVD format backed by electronics makers led by Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news) as the winner in a heated battle over next-generation DVD technology.

"Two groups are competing for control of high-definition DVD formats to be launched in the spring of 2006. After a long and tedious run up to launch, it is now clear to Forrester that the Sony-led Blu-Ray format will win," said Forrester Research analyst Ted Schadler in a report.

For years the Sony group and a rival set of companies led by Toshiba Corp which back HD DVD technology have been locked in a heated battle over whose standards will be used to make a new generation of DVD players that promise consumers sharper pictures and manufacturers new revenues.

A key to which technology wins has been the support of Hollywood's major film studios, which until only recently had been split evenly with three majors supporting Blu-Ray and three behind HD-DVD. Both formats deliver movies in sharp high-definition and store more data than traditional DVDs, enabling them to offer interactive features such as games.

Earlier this month, however, Paramount Home Entertainment said it would release digital movies in the Blu-Ray format, becoming the first major studio to support both rival formats.

Paramount, owned by Viacom Inc., had previously said it would release titles in HD DVD. Paramount's support of Blu-Ray was prompted by the failure of the two factions to join forces before the new high-definition DVD players went on sale, industry sources have said.

HD DVD supporter Warner Bros. has declined to comment on reports it may soon follow Paramount's lead by endorsing both.

FORMAT WAR, BAD IDEA

The formats are incompatible, which Hollywood fears will lead to consumer confusion. Industry watchers believe one format will ultimately win like in the case of the high-stakes home video battle between VHS and Betamax in the 1980s.

Schadler of Forrester said in his report that Sony learned from its painful Betamax loss that the format with the most industry support will win, and it set out years ago to assemble an "impregnable lineup of partners."

He said a format battle would be risky for both sides. "Unless the HD DVD group abandons the field, it will be another two years before consumers are confident enough of the winner to think about buying a new format DVD player. In the meantime, they will expand their video on-demand, downloadable video, and Internet viewing habits," he said.

Sony and Toshiba held high-level talks earlier this year to try to unify their formats and avoid an all-out standards war, but those discussions broke down.

Backers of HD DVD were not immediately available to comment on the Forrester report, but in an interview earlier this week, HD DVD spokesman Mark Knox said he believes two formats will ultimately reach the market but that HD DVD remains hopeful a unified format will be agreed upon.

"Our position has not changed. We're always open to finding a way to unify the format, but we want to make sure every parameter is available for discussion, whether its on the disc structure, file format," and other issues, he said.

"Let's lay everything on the table and do our due diligence. Unfortunately some of the replies we have received, are that some of the parameters, particularly on the disc structure, are not up for discussion," he said.

[soze]

and did you hear Hewlett Packard is threatening to pull out of the Blu-ray assoc because of home networking non-feature...it's gettin fugly now

link

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002571716_bluray20.html

[wifeB8]

Let’s see the HD DVD group has shown a consumer working Notebook PC with HD DVD-ROM for playback, Cyberlink has demonstrated HD dvd playback using it’s PowerDVD software, and the HD DVD group has begun to demonstrate it’s players at select locations in the USA. Not to mention the entire CHINA equation with its ability to mass produce cheap HD DVD compatible dvd players swamping the US consumer market.
No, no , no , no light at the end of the tunnel yet……………………..This format war is far from over. To the determent of consumers IMO both formats will hit US consumer markets and based on software availability and hardware pricing one will move ahead and gain momentum.

[gparris]

Toshiba's fix to introducing the HD DVD format by getting the Chinese to adopt it and make the players/recorders cheaper against Sony could backfire on them.
Chinese manufacturers may not pay the royalties to Toshiba or may adopt their own HD DVD format incompatible with Toshiba and Toshiba could be left out.
Meanwhile, the cost savings Toshiba is trying to create over Blu-ray could be wiped out if Sony finds a cheaper manufacturing method or ramps up production, too.
Additionally, although the computer concerns like Microsoft, Intel and now, HP are rightfully demanding less copy protection, the question is will Sony bow to those concerns which could be last major stumbling block to adoption over Toshiba?

[wifeB8]

Toshiba's fix to introducing the HD DVD format by getting the Chinese to adopt it and make the players/recorders cheaper against Sony could backfire on them.
Chinese manufacturers may not pay the royalties to Toshiba or may adopt their own HD DVD format incompatible with Toshiba and Toshiba could be left out.
As I understand it China will adopt the HD DVD standard for exportation of players and will have its own internal standard domestically. By doing this they in essence will not pay for any royalties of dvd players sold domestically.

Meanwhile, the cost savings Toshiba is trying to create over Blu-ray could be wiped out if Sony finds a cheaper manufacturing method or ramps up production, too.
I don’t see how BR technology will be able to stay competitively priced with HDDVD. BR technology requires new manufacturing techniques than those presently available. So it will depend largely on reproduction houses who will have to invest in new equipment. Right now there is noting in the horizon that I have read that would lead me to believe that BR technology can be priced equally with HDDVD.

Additionally, although the computer concerns like Microsoft, Intel and now, HP are rightfully demanding less copy protection, the question is will Sony bow to those concerns which could be last major stumbling block to adoption over Toshiba?
Many have seemed to dismiss MS role in this fiasco. From what I’m reading MS new OS will not come with BR support the reason is BR is still being finalized. That means a lot of these PC drives that are scheduled for release in March 06 will not have driver support. One more point those PC drives appear to be strictly for archiving onto BR disc and not for movie playback on a PC.

[jj9126]

Many have seemed to dismiss MS role in this fiasco. From what I’m reading MS new OS will not come with BR support the reason is BR is still being finalized. That means a lot of these PC drives that are scheduled for release in March 06 will not have driver support. One more point those PC drives appear to be strictly for archiving onto BR disc and not for movie playback on a PC.

Yep. Despite the growing consensus in the trades (studio & DVD industry) that Blu Ray has already won - MS support is a HUGE issue. I can't see a resolution on the horizon, either...

As long as HD-DVD camp has MS in their corner - they still have a shot - albeit an increasingly remote one.

In my opinion, I'd rather see BR deliver a knockout punch NOW to avoid a format war... but that's not going to happen.

[gparris]

wifeB8: Thank you for your constructive comments.

While the whole "format war" could end before any consumer product introduction, it is still too close a call, but the fact there is still one going on is counterproductive to all of us HDTV owners (and future high def DVD player/recorder owners).

[DVdude]

Software integration continues to grow for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD...
---

InterVideo Showcases WinDVD Blu-ray Disc Playback at BDA Seminar
New Blu-ray Support for Flagship Product

Wuhan, China - November 1, 2005 -- InterVideo®, Inc. (NASDAQ: IVII), a leader in digital media software technology and PC/CE convergence and member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, announced today that it will showcase their award-winning universal DVD player software, WinDVD?, at the Blu-ray Disc (BD) Association Seminar in China on November 2-3, 2005. Members of the Blu-ray Disc Association and contributors will display and demonstrate BD and BD-related products and technology at the seminar. In addition to the company's presentation and demonstration, InterVideo will co-host the seminar with the Blu-ray Disc Association.

With over 125 million copies shipped worldwide, InterVideo's WinDVD is the first DVD playback software to provide a complete Blu-ray playback solution including BDAV (video file in BD format). Additionally, InterVideo WinDVD BD fully supports advanced interactive features with BDMV (movie) titles as well as the BD-J specification. This specification allows movie enthusiasts to take advantage of all BD disc interactive playback features including subtitles, play modes, angles and direct Internet connectivity for content updates...

Full Press Release: http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Press.jsp?mode=11-01-2005

--- and ---

InterVideo and Ulead Enhance HD DVD Playback and Authoring Products With DTS-HD Audio Support at the Home Theater Conference

Next-Generation Authoring, Burning and Playback Solutions Deliver Highest-Quality Audio

FREMONT, Calif.- (BUSINESS WIRE) - Oct. 28, 2005 - InterVideo®, Inc. (NASDAQ:IVII) and its partner Ulead® Systems, Inc. announced today that the new InterVideo-Ulead HD DVD Authoring Tool and WinDVD® HD, InterVideo's HD DVD content playback software, will feature DTS™-HD audio support. The prototype products will be available for demonstration during the Home Theater Conference cruise this weekend, starting on Saturday, October 29, 2005, for a week.

DTS-HD provides an extensive range of the highest-quality audio performance available in the new HD DVD format standards and can also deliver audio quality at bit rates extending from DTS Digital Surround up to lossless. While offering playback in legacy equipment, such as existing home theater systems, the DTS-HD codec is capable of supporting a virtually unlimited number of discrete surround sound channels. Within HD DVD DTS-HD provides up to 7.1 channel lossless additionally can downmix to 5.1 and two-channel...

Full Press Release: http://www.ulead.com.tw/ulead/UDNews/preview.cfm?ID=430&FS=us&template=PressReleases.htm

--- and ---

CyberLink Power2Go 5 is Ready for Blu-Ray Discs
Provides all-media solution for burning data, music, videos, and photos

Taipei, Taiwan----November 3, 2005----CyberLink Corp. (5203.TW), a world leader and pioneer in providing integrated solutions for the Digital Home, today released CyberLink Power2Go 5, offering support for Blu-ray Discs and burners while delivering new easy-to-use features for creating video, music and data discs.

CyberLink Power2Go delivers a solution ready for today and tomorrow with the ability to burn data onto all kinds of disc media, including CDs, DVD-/+RW, double-layer DVDs, and future Blu-ray Discs.

Expanded audio functionality enables users to extract audio tracks from video files, set the duration of silence between tracks, update album and artist information online, as well as output music as an Audio CD, MP3 file or a DVD. New features for videos and photos let users trim video clips, automatically set disc chapters, add stylish menu designs to their DVDs, and quickly create menu thumbnails.

"CyberLink has been an early supporter of the Blu-ray Disc format and it was only natural we add this functionality to our all-media burning software Power2Go 5," said Alice H. Chang, CEO of CyberLink. "In doing this, CyberLink Power2Go 5 not only offers a fun and easy way for anyone to burn data, we also believe it prepares customers for the release of high-capacity high-definition disc media and burners."

Full Press Release: http://www.cyberlink.com/eng/press_room/view_921.html

Product Page: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/products/product_main.jsp?ProdId=24&Source=Home

[Matt27]

Dam!!

More waiting i presume:(

How is this good for HD-DVD if the majority of the movie studios are already in blu-ray now though?

Man i just hope this thing ends soon,i just want to watch movies in HD,DVD although still great is really starting to show it's age.

[DVdude]

It looks like both new formats will be around for awhile till a clear winner emerges. I'm sure that is why many of the software and media companies are preparing to market products for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray:

---

Imation Readies HD DVD and Blu-ray Optical Media Formats

Company Will Deliver Both Formats With Scratch-Resistant Protective Coating

OAKDALE, Minn., Nov. 10 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Imation Corp (NYSE: IMN), a worldwide leader in removable data storage media, today announced it is finalizing the development of both HD DVD and Blu-ray optical recordable media, with plans to utilize its proprietary hard coat protective disc coating in the development of both formats. The ultra-durable, scratch- resistant hard coating is designed to protect the valuable memories and data that users will save on advanced optical discs.

With the rapid expansion of High Definition Television (HDTV) broadcasts and increasing use of high definition recorders creating valuable content, Blu-ray and HD DVD optical media provide the high capacity required for the vast quantity of information created in these new high definition formats -- formats that allow users to record crystal-clear superior images as well as benefit from vast computer data storage capabilities.

With dedicated teams completing technology development and testing of both single layer and double layer advanced optical formats, Imation plans to begin shipping both HD DVD and Blu-ray products starting in the early part of 2006. Imation is a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) and DVD Forum.

Full News Release: http://ir.imation.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=73967&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=781465&highlight=

[DVdude]

Sony, NEC Sign Deal to Set Up Venture

Nov 17, 7:00 AM (ET)

TOKYO (AP) - Sony Corp. (SNE) and NEC Corp. (NIPNY) agreed to set up a joint venture combining their optical disc drive operations to boost competitiveness, the two Japanese electronics companies said Thursday.

The new joint venture will start operations on April 1, 2006, producing DVD drives and CD drives for use in personal computers and other electronics devices, the two companies said in a joint statement.

In one possible problem, however, Sony and NEC support different, rival formats for next-generation DVDs.

Sony is promoting a DVD format called "Blu-ray Disc," while NEC is promoting the "HD DVD" format it and Toshiba Corp. jointly developed. The two formats are incompatible.

Yoshibumi Yashiro, a NEC spokesman, said the joint venture will design and make DVD drives and CD drives that can be used with both the Blue-ray Disc and HD DVD formats "for the time being." Whether NEC will continue promoting its HD DVD format in the future will be decided by watching market trends, Yashiro said.

Sony, meanwhile, will promote its Blue-ray Disc format, but it does not intend to interfere in the other partner's format business, according to company spokesman Taro Takamine.

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051117/D8DU71R80.html

[gparris]

If the HD DVD and Blu-ray camp don't merge into one single format and end the format "war", the only other option of the consumer is what Samsung was going to do:

Offer a combi-player that does both discs so it doesn't end up as a "doorstop" along the way as one format eventurally triumphs over the other,IMO.

[soze]

and did you hear about Netflix? They will only carry BLu-ray rentals...

good...it's because I rent from Netflix....hah

[Ratman]

Not smart business on their part if that's true. Why lose business? (unless they are subsidized by Sony).

Also... that limits 'your' DVD viewing options (in HD).

You both lose IMO.

[Matt27]

Nov 16, 2005 - Blu-ray Disc to Support Mandatory Managed Copy

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) today confirmed that Mandatory Managed Copy (MMC), which allows users to legally copy discs and transfer the digital files over a home network, will be supported by the Blu-ray Disc format. This was one of two features that HP recently requested be added to the Blu-ray Disc format, the other one was Microsoft's iHD layer for interactivity. "Mandatory managed copy will be part of Blu-ray format, but while HP's request (for interactivity) is being considered, at this point in time, the Blu-ray group is still proceeding down the path of Java," Blu-ray spokesman Andy Parsons told Reuters in an interview. "We are taking their request seriously, but are not willing to delay the launch. I'm not saying we would not implement what they've requested, but it's not going to stop the format at this time.

www.blu-ray.com

Something new for Blu-ray.

[deckard]

and did you hear about Netflix? They will only carry BLu-ray rentals...

good...it's because I rent from Netflix....hah

Do you have a link?

I could only find this (http://www.cnet.com.au/desktops/dvdburners/print.htm?TYPE=story&AT=40055860-39029405t-10000078c) from July 12/05

A Netflix spokesman said his company could not comment on specific plans, but would carry whatever consumers demand.

"Ultimately there will be a standard," Netflix spokesman Steven Swasey said. "It would be good to get there earlier rather than later, rather than having it fractionalised."

[deckard]

Panasonic Develops World's First Chipset for BD Drive Which Can Record and Play Blu-ray Disc (BD), DVD, and CD Media Formats (http://www.panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en051117-2/en051117-2.html)

[soze]

sorry here's the link

http://thomashawk.com/2005/11/netflix-presents-at-lehman-brothers.html

yea, hd dvd's momentum is slowing...not dead yet..


and SONY and NEC are starting a new company that manufactures hd dvd and blu-ray products...anyone else got more info about this?

RATMAN, why are you so cranky? You live Jersey, you lose IMHO

[wifeB8]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1888626,00.asp

[DVdude]

New Storage System May Make All DVDs Obsolete
Threatening to make both competing high-definition DVD systems, Blu-Ray and HD DVD, quickly obsolete, a holographic storage system that can store up to 300GB on a single disc is expected to hit the market by this time next year, Britain's New Scientist magazine is reporting in its current issue. The magazine noted that the technology behind it could eventually be developed to store up to 1.6 terabytes on a disk, the equivalent of 300 DVDs. Moreover, it noted, the system employs a laser light unit that allows information to be transferred in a single flash, thereby lowering production costs. The system is being developed jointly by InPhase Technologies and Hitachi.

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2005-11-28/#film5

[Ratman]

Old news... read this post and responses that were previously discussed in another thread:
http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showpost.php?p=136982&postcount=33

[DVdude]

Latest Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD News:
---

Taiwan's Blu-ray, HD DVD rival goes mass-market

FVD players enter volume production

Taiwan's home-grown answer to next-generation optical disc formats like HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc has gone into mass production.

The FVD (Forward Versatile Disc) format provides HD content on a disc capable of being read by red lasers of the kind used in today's DVD players. Content is encoded in Microsoft's WMV HD format. FVD was developed to bridge the pricing gap between DVD and next-generation formats, which aren't expected to go mainstream until 2008...

Full Story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/fvd_volume_production/

---

Cost questions dog Blu-ray DVD's lead

Because Sony's Blu-ray disc technology appears to be the front-runner in the nasty fight to determine how the DVDs of the future are produced, movie studios and disc manufacturers are beginning to come to terms with the financial realities of the new format--as well as some troubling uncertainties.

For more than a year now, a bitter public relations war has been waged between supporters of Blu-ray and a rival Toshiba-backed technology known as HD DVD. Both are high-capacity discs that will support the distribution of high-definition versions of movies, with much better picture quality than what's possible with today's technology.

Blu-ray appears to have the lead , with most major movie studios saying they'll release films in the format next year. That's led to new concerns about mass production of DVDs in the new format. Since it represents a major break with past DVD and CD techniques, some worry Blu-ray will be expensive to support--at least in the short term--and could jack up prices for consumers...

Full Story: http://news.com.com/2102-1025_3-5969815.html?tag=st.util.print

---

Toshiba to Delay HD DVD Player Launch

Dec 13, 2005

TOKYO (AP) - Japanese electronics maker Toshiba Corp. said Tuesday copy protection issues would delay the Japan launch of the first players supporting its HD DVD format, the latest development in the high-stakes battle for the next generation of video discs.

Players will not hit the Japanese market until details of a copy protection system for the players are worked out, Toshiba said in a statement, reversing its earlier intention to roll out the first players in Japan by the end of the year. Toshiba did not give a specific release date.

But the company said it would continue to push for a U.S. launch early next year...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20051213/D8EFFNJ82.html

---

What is Missing From Xbox 360?

Video gamers around the world are flocking to stores to pick up the Xbox 360, the newest video game system from Microsoft, but home theater enthusiasts are lamenting the fact that there is no digital video output such as HDMI or DVI.

When the system was officially announced in the spring of 2005, there was quite a bit of speculation about whether the system would feature one of the upcoming new high definition disc formats. The rumor mill has Sony building their Playstation 3 on the Blu-ray disc format, so many home theater enthusiasts were hoping that Microsoft would work out a deal to build HD DVD capabilities into the Xbox. The product press releases touted the Xbox 360 as having the ability to play video games in high definition and it does support 480p, 720p and 1080i output. However, it comes via an analog component video cable. The original Xbox has games that can be played in 480p via component video cables. With digital TVs as well as more and more modern AV preamps and receivers now often having multiple HDMI inputs and or switching, the world is getting ready for HDMI but they wont be sending their Xbox signals to their displays in a digital format...

Full Story: http://www.avrev.com/news/1105/21.xbox.html

[DVdude]

Latest HD-DVD and BLU-RAY News:

HP to Support HD-DVD High-definition DVD Format and Join HD-DVD Promotions Group

In order to provide consumers with the best possible high-definition experience, HP today announced it will support the HD-DVD high-definition DVD format, in addition to the Blu-ray Disc format, and join the HD-DVD Promotions Group.

Previously, HP supported the Blu-ray Disc format exclusively. The company had requested the Blu-ray Disc Association adopt two customer-friendly technologies, Mandatory Managed Copy and iHD, which are already included in the HD-DVD format.

Only Mandatory Managed Copy, which permits consumers to make legal copies of video content, was formally adopted by the association. iHD, which allows content providers to offer greater interactivity on next-generation DVDs and helps ensure a more compelling user experience when recording HDTV programs or moving digital content throughout the home, was not approved for launch.

"We're encouraged that the Blu-ray Disc Association is adopting Mandatory Managed Copy. Because HP wants to deliver the most user-friendly and cost-effective solution to our customers, we have decided to support both formats," said Maureen Weber, general manager, Personal Storage Business, HP. "By joining the HD-DVD Promotions Group and continuing work with the Blu-ray Disc Association, HP will be in a better position to assess true development costs and, ultimately, provide the best and most affordable solution for consumers."

HP believes both Mandatory Managed Copy and iHD are important to fostering the digitally connected home; both of these technologies are incorporated into HD-DVD. Microsoft has already announced plans to integrate iHD into its new Windows® Vista operating system. HP believes this integration will reduce development costs and provide a more affordable solution for consumers. In addition, HD-DVD provides a rich, cost-competitive solution for the consumer and is easier to manufacture.


Source: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2005/051216a.html

---

Sigma Designs to Work on Full-Featured Blu-ray Player with Pioneer

Sigma Designs*has announced that it will work with Pioneer Corporation on the joint development of a full-featured Blu-ray DVD player using Sigma Designs' SMP8630 family of media processors...

Full Story: http://www.sdesigns.com/news/press_releases/051212.htm

---

TDK Starts Shipping ''Bare'' Type Mass-Production Blu-ray Disc Samples

TDK*has announced that is has commenced shipping mass-production samples of its bare-type (cartridge-less) BD-R (write-once type) and BD-RE (rewritable type) Blu-ray Discs.

The four new products include:
-- BD-R25 (write once, single-side, single-layer, 25GB)
-- BD-R50 (write once, single-side, dual-layer, 50GB)
-- BD-RE25 (rewritable, single-side, single-layer, 25GB)
-- BD-RE50 (rewritable, single-side, dual-layer, 50GB)

Source: http://www.tdk.co.jp/tjaah01/aah57700.htm

---

InterVideo, Ulead Demonstrate WinDVD HD Playback, HD Authoring

InterVideo, Inc., a leader in digital media software technology and PC/CE convergence; and its partner Ulead Systems, Inc., an industry leader in video, image and DVD software, demonstrated VC1 decoding and content navigation from a HD DVD sample drive and disc provided by NEC at the HD DVD Promotion Group Seminar...

Full Story: http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/Press.jsp?mode=12-13-2005

[DVdude]

Pioneer Launches One of Industry's First PC-Based Blu-ray Disc Drives

December 27, 2005

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. today announced one of the industry’s first Blu-ray Disc computer drives, expected to revolutionize digital and high-definition media storage. The new Pioneer BDR-101A will utilize shorter wavelength blue lasers in order to store up to 25 gigabytes of information on a single layer Blu-ray Disc.* It is expected to begin shipping in the first quarter of 2006.
*
This first generation product will be targeted primarily to professional users and serious enthusiasts, generally the first to adopt new technology.* In particular, content creators will depend on Blu-ray Disc writers to test and evaluate high definition consumer Blu-ray Disc titles during the authoring process before replication.* The drive will come equipped with a data recording application to transfer digital files to Blu-ray Discs.
*
As the market for high definition video camcorders grows, users will increasingly rely on the Blu-ray Disc drive to store massive amounts of HD video.* Likewise, a person with a television tuner on his or her personal computer could use the drive to record high definition television shows for later viewing.* The drive also will be able to play consumer Blu-ray Disc movie titles on BD-ROM discs and will play and record standard DVD media...

Full Press Release: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_291704979,00.html

[Ratman]

Now... to see the street price(s) of the hardware and media.

Sounds like a reasonable guess:
http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/12/27/pioneer_blu_ray_drive/

And from what I can scavange, blank media ~$30 per disc.
(expensive "coasters" :) )

[wifeB8]

I wonder who stands to lose more from this Sony or Toshiba.
http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=799861&source=home

If history is any indication Sony will come out against this and refuse to license any technology.

[wifeB8]

Let’s see if Blue-ray can beat $500.00 US.
In addition, initially looks like you will get two output formats 720p and 1080i via the HDMI interface. Glad to hear they will have the Broadcom decoder chip. So far looks very good for HD-DVD

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-04-2006/0004242550&EDATE=

[deckard]

Huge news for HD DVD, Blu-ray will definitely have to rethink their player pricing.

[Kenyada]

This has all the markings of the VHS tape vs. BetaMax tape wars of 25 years ago. In the early stages, it was a crap shoot. I chose VHS in the form of a $1000 RCA Selectavision VHS machine. It was huge at 64 lbs. A friend decided to go with BetaMax. He bought the machine and the first available Betamax tapes. And when the Betamax dream fell through, he still hung in there, preaching the gospel of finer PQ with Betamax. Poor guy.

With that history in mind, I'm not so quick to jump into either camp right now. I want to see how this thing shapes up first.

[SBB Motley]

One of the big ups of the blu-ray discs is the space.. Ohh yeah! I cant wait to see some of the movies that come out... The whole jackass and viva la bam series' on one disc.

[mountainman]

Pricing and Availability on Toshiba HD DVD Players
HD-XA1 ($799.99, March 2006); HD-A1 ($499.99, March 2006)

I wonder what the difference is between the two players (other than price)? $300 should buy alot of bells and whistles in my book.

[EDD]

I'm so confused and don't know what to do. :rofl2:
http://today.reuters.com/sponsoredby/amex/article.aspx?type=innovationNews&storyID=2006-01-05T135526Z_01_FLE418324_RTRUKOC_0_US-ELECTRONICS-SONY-BLURAY.xml

You kidding right? You've read the title and your here now to help me decide, right? :)

Go figure! Do you really wonder what the consumer is going to do? Do you really think Blu-Ray has a hope in h#ll in all of this? :boo2:

The above article is laughable. The consumer is not going to have a problem with this choice. It's a no brainer and as far as I can see... it's NO CONTEST as well!

Who on this planet is going to go for Blu-Ray? Given the current (predicted) facts, who, with a heart beat, is going to buy a Blu-Ray HD player now or ever? What Studio/Corporation, with sales and profit in mind, is going to support BR and not support HD-DVD? The writing is already on the wall and here with us today.

Blue Ray can not win and Toshiba can still cut it's prices by half. That's right, HD-DVD players will be selling, for profit, at $200 or less by next year.

[wifeB8]

Just wanted to reflect a bit about what has been coming out of CES2006 the last couple of days. Granted it is still early in the format war but the news does not look very promising for one side. All the hype leading up to CES2006 was all about the BR group. They would have major announcements on deadlines, prices and software availability to show the consumer that there product was heads above the competition.
Note to the BR group: It’s always better to talk softly and carry a big stick.

Meanwhile the HD-DVD group sat quietly on the sidelines with not much to say leading up to CES2006 and now the table appears to have turned. It now appears they will be the first to market with reasonable prices. From all accounts with picture quality being equal and advance video/sound codec’s being used by the HD-DVD side the entire argument of greater disc capacity falls thru the cracks and prices become a determining factor.

[DVdude]

Note to the BR group: It’s always better to talk softly and carry a big stick.

Meanwhile the HD-DVD group sat quietly on the sidelines with not much to say leading up to CES2006 and now the table appears to have turned.

Very Good points... and with Toshiba announcing HD-DVD pricing that appears to be 2-3 times lower than comparable Blu-Ray products and with lower disc manufacturing costs and Microsoft PC and X-Box 360 backing HD-DVD... all of a sudden the boasting Blu-Ray camp has a a lot of catching up to do.

Another CES news story from today, repeating the Toshiba annoucement highlights...


Toshiba to Sell HD DVD Players in U.S.

Jan 5, 6:37 AM (ET)
By KOZO MIZOGUCHI

TOKYO (AP) - Japanese electronics maker Toshiba Corp. said Thursday it will start selling high-definition players that support its HD DVD format in the United States in March - the first commercial launch of the next-generation product in the world.

Rival Sony Corp. also said it will start selling players running the competing next-generation video format called Blu-ray disc in the United States in the summer. Plans for when either player will be sold in Japan were not announced.

Toshiba's new HD DVD players - HD-XA1 and HD-A1, priced at $799 and $499 respectively - will hit the U.S. market about the time major Hollywood studios are expected to unveil HD DVD movie titles, the company said.

The announcements highlight the intensifying battle for supremacy in the next generation of video discs...

Full Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060105/D8EUGA3O0.html

[Digital Doug]

All articles on this that I read says they will be available for March release. Amazon is taking pre-orders NOW.

As expected HD-DVD will be selling first and will be less expensive to buy... speaking of "buy"... good bye Blue_Ray! Three strikes and your out! 1. You're to late, 2. You're over priced and 3. You're incompatible with existing standards. :rofl2:

Dewey Defeats Truman! Remember that headline? These are just opening salvos in the war EDD.....

First real PR battle winner goes to HD-DVD. But 'tis but a minor skirmish.

If all reports/rumors/speculation are true, the PS3 will be around the same price point. Sony is still keeping their cards close to their chest with PS3. HD-DVD was very shrewd to unleash the $500 player. But at the Playstation Conference to be held in February, odds are definitive launch details of PS3 will emerge. Most smart betters are saying May on PS3. So then we'll see what Sony's strategy will be.

Now, I will say this....at this point, it may look crappy for Blu-Ray. Sony seems to be taking the Betamax stance yet again....better quality, higher capacity blah blah blah. Your average consumer doesn't care. They care about player price/value and number of titles. HD-DVD got a notch today, but PS3 is expected to match that notch.

BUT, in all reality......how many HDTV's are out there???? If you really analyze it, not many. This is a technology aimed at the early adopters of HDTV. And everyone with HDTV is still an early adopter, just by sheer numbers. Heck, most of the TV manufacturers are still touting the HD big time this year. HD numbers are starting to increase slightly faster as prices are starting to come down for basic HD sets, and most of the manufacturers are turning up the HD heat.

This war is far from over.....heck it could last 2 or 3 years. Look at SACD vs. DVD-A......both floundering.....DVD-A the only one making a move to tempt consumers to buy (DualDiscs play in DVD-A players, non DVD-A players, and have a standard CD audio side) and no one cares yet. For the remainder of this year, i really don't see the general consuming public caring about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD, since a majority still don't have HDTV's.

Sony is staking the fate of Blu-Ray on PS3 plain and simple. They have to be thinking that the consumer will pick PS3 because (A) Playstation's legacy of being a great game console with a great array of titles (B) PS3 following the Playstation tradition of being multipurpose....DVD's CD's, games.....all now next gen formats of Blu Ray, SACD/DVD-A/Dual Disc (C) and that consumers look at both formats and say....HD-DVD is giving me a DVD player for $500; Sony has PS3 for $500 that plays games and DVD's of basically the same quality as HD-DVD?

It doesn't really stop there......but I don't see the end of the war as you seem to already see. Blu-Ray will have some counters......and they are banking a lot on the success of PS3. But for a format to succeed or fail, there has to be a willingness to adopt the format. Right now there aren't enough HDTV's in homes to say there will be a willingness to adopt. This could be why Sony was fairly mum on PS3 today. Make it a separate PR atomic bomb to come in next month......and tout it's "futuristic" specs and features that they claim to make PS3 the ultimate preparation for digital theatre compenents you haven't even bought yet.

But I could be wrong!

[AV_Integrated]

3. You're incompatible with existing standards.
? - Not sure what that statement means. HD-DVD isn't compatible with my existing DVD player is it? How is it compatible with existing standards? Just a bit confused on that.

Good to see a price competitive model being announced from HD-DVD though. Should make this an interesting scenario.

Important: HDMI only for HD is listed in the article.

[EDD]

If all reports/rumors/speculation are true, the PS3 will be around the same price point. Sony is still keeping their cards close to their chest with PS3. HD-DVD was very shrewd to unleash the $500 player. But at the Playstation Conference to be held in February, odds are definitive launch details of PS3 will emerge. Most smart betters are saying May on PS3. So then we'll see what Sony's strategy will be.

Now, I will say this....at this point, it may look crappy for Blu-Ray. Sony seems to be taking the Betamax stance yet again....better quality, higher capacity blah blah blah. Your average consumer doesn't care. They care about player price/value and number of titles. HD-DVD got a notch today, but PS3 is expected to match that notch.I think it's silly to bring the PS3 into any discussion revolving around BR vs HDDVD. The PS3's objective is the copy protection for their games... not to play movies.

NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY A PLAYSATION TO PLAY HD MOVIES! If so this surely is a nitch market only.

Here is a question for you... what is less expensive... a full blown PS3 that will play BR movies (if in fact there will be any) or an external independent player? I think the player will be.

Sorry to break the news and destroy your theory about how the Sony or the PS3 is magically going to save BR, but Microsoft will be providing a HD-DVD player add on for the Xbox just to play HD-DVD movies.

No price has been announced but I'm willing to bet with full confidence that it will be substantially lower than the cost of the PS3. In fact it will most likely be *much lower* than the $499 Toshiba player.

Seriously.... BR has no chance in all of this. They have nothing in their hand and are just bluffing. HD-DVD holds all the Aces and have not even play their second card. If they have to it will be the final blow to BR/Sony and all it's diminishing supporters.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=xbox+360+hd-dvd

[puck71]

Looks like HD-DVDs will be 720p\1080i. Not that its all that much of a shock. Will these first players be incapable of playing 1080p discs? The HD-DVD spec does allow for 1080p.

[EDD]

? - Not sure what that statement means. HD-DVD isn't compatible with my existing DVD player is it? How is it compatible with existing standards? Just a bit confused on that.

Good to see a price competitive model being announced from HD-DVD though. Should make this an interesting scenario.

Important: HDMI only for HD is listed in the article.Yes this was vague. Sorry. Basically this... DVD players today are compatible with the hardware spec used for PC's. DVD disc manufacturing process used today will make HD-DVD discs down the same production line will some small amount of retooling and are thus inexpensive to manufacturer.

BR processes is unique requiring NEW specialty equipment and production lines and the nature of the process all makes BR(whatever) expensive due to proprietary specs.

You will never see BR compatible drives in PC's... only HD-DVD will be supported. This is big and more important than you can ever imagine!

[Digital Doug]

I think it's silly to bring the PS3 into any discussion revolving around BR vs HDDVD. The PS3's objective is the copy protection for their games... not to play movies.

NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY A PLAYSATION TO PLAY HD MOVIES! If so this surely is a nitch market only.

Here is a question for you... what is less expensive... a full blown PS3 that will play BR movies (if in fact there will be any) or an external independent player? I think the player will be.

Sorry to break the news and destroy your theory about how the Sony or the PS3 is magically going to save BR, but Microsoft will be providing a HD-DVD player add on for the Xbox just to play HD-DVD movies.

No price has been announced but I'm willing to bet with full confidence that it will be substantially lower than the cost of the PS3. In fact it will most likely be *much lower* than the $499 Toshiba player.

Seriously.... BR has no chance in all of this. They have nothing in their hand and are just bluffing. HD-DVD holds all the Aces and have not even play their second card. If they have to it will be the final blow to BR/Sony and all it's diminishing supporters.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=xbox+360+hd-dvd

Not going to get in a "who's right match", but I'm not saying that Blu-Ray is going to win......nor am I saying that HD-DVD has it locked up. I, for one, will get a PS3, and will watch Blu-Ray discs on it. But I am not going to rush out and replace my whole collection yet.

This "myth" of copy protection for their games has to end. It was addressed by Sony months ago. But that's neither here nor there.

And what are all their Aces? I really don't see much of a difference between the two formats, except for disc capacity and slight copy protection differences. Can you enlighten me since you seem so sure of BD's demise?

Let's keep this out of the forums....just PM me.

As far as the "bluff" statement goes......20 or so manufacturers and all of the major studios, many of which are on HD-DVD's side as well, are supporting BD. It is going to happen.......titles have been announced. That many companies buying into a "bluff"? Nah.....I think they believe in their product. It's not the Poker Showdown. It's dollars and cents.

And what I tried to convey in my post is........their won't be enough of either player sold to win the war for a LONG time. The adoption rate of either format is going to be SLOW! There aren't enough people with HDTV's out there that are going to spring $500 on HD or BD, especially when they also have to start replacing their current DVD collections. Not going to happen.

----edited to add something

[hammie]

The Toshiba is backwards compatible so you will not have to replace your entire collection.

People will replace their discs no differently than they do today when a movie is re-released with a better soundtrack (DTS-ES or Dolby-EX) or better mastering, or a new Superbit release or something along those lines.

Will there be early adopters? Sure. Will the war be long? Most likely. Who will win? Nobody really knows. Maybe both. There are still DVD-A and SACD. That war is still going on.

In the end, only time will tell.

Personally, I plan on waiting until the prices drop. Maybe another 18 months or so. I would prefer to wait until Blockbuster or Netflix offers them as rentals first.

-Lou

[wifeB8]

Not the type of news that early Blu-ray adopters want to hear. You can only hype your product so much before you need to deliver in a reasonable time. How many BR early adapters are going to buy a player knowing that it’s not being fully implemented making quite possibly obsolete when full implementation of BR Java is realized. Just too many unresolved issues coming to the surface late in the game. So far the saving grace for BR has been the inability of AACS to get finalized preventing HD-DVD to get off and running.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/06/1g_blu-ray_may_omit_features/

[DVdude]

With big players investing so much time, energy and money into these 2 competing technologies, I don't think either one will go away quickly. Most likely, there will be hardware and media/movies to play on both formats for the foreseeable future. Sort of like the way Microsoft Windows OS and Apple Mac OS have both been competitors for the most part and still each has survived and both have most of the major apps written for them.

Of course holographic storage may pass both of these 2 HD technologies by and make them virtually useless and the squabbles over a few gigabytes of storage will be meaningless when it comes to terabytes of storage.

Here's the latest Fujifilm news from CES...

FUJIFILM BLU-RAY, HD DVD MEDIA AVAILABLE SUMMER 2006; COMPANY CONTINUES STUDY OF FUTURE HOLOGRAPHIC TECHNOLOGIES

CES 2006, Las Vegas, January 4, 2006 - Fuji Photo Film U.S.A., Inc., a subsidiary of the leading global imaging and information technologies company, today announced that Fujifilm-branded Blu-ray and HD DVD media will be available mid 2006. Prototypes of the new Fujifilm HD DVD and Blu-ray media will be on display at the Fujifilm booth at CES 2006 (Central Hall, N101/102).

The company also continues to conduct significant research and development in the area of holographic storage technologies that will bring future generation, multiple terabyte optical storage capacity to consumer, entertainment and commercial applications. A single terabyte of holographic disc storage is roughly the equivalent of 16 days of continuously running DVD movies, or 8,000 times more data than a human brain retains in a lifetime.

"Consumers are driving demand for interactive gaming and entertainment applications that require enormous storage capacity," noted Steve Solomon, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Recording Media Division, Fuji Photo Film U.S.A. "Fujifilm coating technology will ensure the precision and quality of signal strength in these new media formats. The success of new recording technologies depends on the availability of affordable, reliable media and our scientists are already working to perfect next-generation storage solutions, long before they hit the market."

With mainstream adoption of high definition (HD) content, television sets and recording devices, consumers and retailers will need new storage technologies to handle ever-expanding digitized files. For example, a two-hour program in HD creates a digital file roughly 15-25 Gigabytes in size, or the equivalent of more than 13 hours of standard-definition TV...

Full Press Release: http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/PRNewsDetail.jsp?DBID=NEWS_842829

[AV_Integrated]

You will never see BR compatible drives in PC's... only HD-DVD will be supported. This is big and more important than you can ever imagine!
Once again I'm confused...

Are you saying this doesn't actually exist?

Pioneer & Philips Blu-Ray PC Drives (http://forums.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=1204)

EDD - You have this game called and the players aren't even out of the field yet. You are dismissive of factors that matter, such as PS3, and you cling to lies and repeat them over and over even after being told that what you are saying is incorrect.

I'm not saying Blu-Ray will win, but picking an inferior technology, based entirely on price, is not what I would call a flawless method of doing things. I mean, based on your statements, there is no question at all - the Game Cube absolutely must be the top selling game system on the market.

But - it isn't.

Likewise, if (big IF) PS3 hits at 500 bucks and plays back Blu-Ray with no problem, then we will see Blu-Ray in 100,000 homes overnight. Whether it is gaming or movies, the bottom line is that Blu-Ray will likely have a ten-fold consumer advantage over HD-DVD which is bound to affect development and public opinon.

I don't consider price something to dismiss either, but I don't think a top of the line Pioneer Elite ($1,800) should be compared to a non-remote having brick player from Toshiba ($500). Perhaps the $1,000 model (Samsung) to the $800.00 model (Toshiba) is more accurate. Still 200 bucks though. Yet, is there some other player we will hear from other than Toshiba? And what about from the Blu-Ray camp?

I don't think all the cards are out yet and this 'battle' such as it is has barely begun. At most, they are just beginning to see each other on the horizon and are just making out the first troops. Not a single shot has been fired that I consider a direct hit.

[EDD]

Once again I'm confused...

Are you saying this doesn't actually exist?

Pioneer & Philips Blu-Ray PC Drives (http://forums.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=1204)
NO, not exactly the way you put it... I'm saying It does not matter if they exist! Their price is outrageous to buy!!! Who, with a heart beat, is going to buy that for their PC? Once again, more proof by your own submission, that BR CAN'T manufacturer a competitive product! This will never change because BR is what it is. It's Proprietary and MUCH more expensive and difficult to manufacturer. Low production yeals will most likely never go away. It's a dumb spec. IMHO.

Now the above statements are just ONE of the TWO part problems we have here facing BR.... Microsoft has said they *MIGHT* choose to add support for BR and *MAYBE* sometime in a future version of Vista. So given these two facts as they exist today and for the foreseeable near future, I rest by my original statements that you will never see BR in PC's. There are always exceptions to the rule, so I'm sure you'll be going out and getting one of these babies. :boo2:


EDD - You have this game called and the players aren't even out of the field yet. You are dismissive of factors that matter, such as PS3, and you cling to lies and repeat them over and over even after being told that what you are saying is incorrect.You're free to prove me wrong (links please!) I've read your link above and this only supports my thoughts and opinions.

Your right about "not in the field yet". It does not matter really. Who cares anyway? I'm looking at the facts as they NOW exist... *REAL* HD-DVD drives will be coming in March for $499, BR drives announced at near $2000 (outrageous prices) and to be released.... well.... we think, maybe 2nd quarter, or maybe.... who knows anyway. BR does not even know for sure! Maybe never! Which BTW would be best for consumers. I've read a vast array of guessing about when BR is REALLY coming, so to me there is plenty of information out there now to "call the game" as you say.

I'm not saying Blu-Ray will win, but picking an inferior technology, based entirely on price, is not what I would call a flawless method of doing things. I mean, based on your statements, there is no question at all - the Game Cube absolutely must be the top selling game system on the market. "Game Cube" What on earth are you talking about? Did you really say this!!!

Come on, get real. Now your suggesting that HD-DVD is "inferior" :rmoon2: Ding, ding ding... wrong statement!!! The Toshiba, as announced, IS a quality machine. LOOK AT THE SPECS! It's got all the bases (high ends specs) covered NOW. Show me ONE link of proof where something says that BR is the *SUPERIOR* technology in the areas THAT MATTER? Please don't let me down on this one. I want to read about this fantasy!

This really is laughable. Your every word in these posts makes you sound like a true, brain washed, Sony brand loyalist! I'm sure you must believe if it's not Sony it's "inferior". Good grief. Sorry to be so blunt. It's really that obvious my friend. I find that kind of statement above total rubbish. The specs that matter (Picture Quality and Sound Quality) for both machines are identical. The HD standards and governing bodies specification sees to that. After all HD is about these two things, right? Please... give me a link which backs your statements if it even exists.


Likewise, if (big IF) PS3 hits at 500 bucks and plays back Blu-Ray with no problem, then we will see Blu-Ray in 100,000 homes overnight. Whether it is gaming or movies, the bottom line is that Blu-Ray will likely have a ten-fold consumer advantage over HD-DVD which is bound to affect development and public opinon. Rubbish! The PS3 game machine will NOT SAVE the BR Movie camp. BR will die like Beta did and for all the same reasons. Sony has not learned their lesson yet! Besides Microsoft have announced a HD-DVD player (a simple external add on) for their xBox 360. I'm sure it will be priced much lower than a PS3 and/or even lower than the 499 Toshiba. I would not hang my hopes on the PS3 saving the day for BR.


I don't consider price something to dismiss either, but I don't think a top of the line Pioneer Elite ($1,800) should be compared to a non-remote having brick player from Toshiba ($500). Perhaps the $1,000 model (Samsung) to the $800.00 model (Toshiba) is more accurate. Still 200 bucks though. Yet, is there some other player we will hear from other than Toshiba? And what about from the Blu-Ray camp? You have got to get yourself out of that mindset that the higher the cost of the device is, the higher the quality it will be. If you really believe this, you have been brainwashed by Sony (and others) that promote that concept. You are being victimized into paying much higher prices for products.

Ultimately the consumer will determine this outcome based on price alone. So which format is the consumer going to go for? Think about announced prices before you give an answer. I hope you understand what the future holds. It's very clear to me.

You must also come to understand that Toshiba and HD-DVD players can be had for under $200 IF Toshiba chooses to release the spec to China, which in fact they have said is indeed possible, they by doing so will lung their dagger right through the heart of BR. BR has no chance to defend or retaliate this move. Toshiba is prepared to do this if for some unknow reason they feel they will have to play that card. BR really is doomed to fail in light of all of this.


I don't think all the cards are out yet and this 'battle' such as it is has barely begun. At most, they are just beginning to see each other on the horizon and are just making out the first troops. Not a single shot has been fired that I consider a direct hit.The obvious and extraordinary price game/battle is like this. A nuclear bomb has been dropped on top of the BR camp any they have only sling shots to shoot back. That's how big a difference currently exists with these recent announcements. Prices have been announced, don't forget, and the difference is huge!

No, I beg to differ with your above comment.... THE BATTLE HAS INDEED ALREADY BEGUN! The opening cards have been played. There IS a *clear* winner here thus far. It's real easy to see if you can just pull your eyes off that Sony logo for a moment. :)

[AV_Integrated]

EDD - You continue to say things over and over again that ignore facts.

$800 Toshiba = no 1080p comparible to? - Not the $1,800 Pioneer, but the $1,000 Samsung.

That's 200 bucks, not $1,300.00. Yes, they have a bargain priced one already listed, but was this the one we were going to see BEFORE Christmas of last year finally? I don't know, but it seems to me that comparing the cheapest model to the best model is not exactly accurate.

Inferior? Well, less storage space (matters in PC land and for longer movies) lower transfer rates (lower quality HD compression), less studio support (fewer movies), fewer manufacturers (less hardware variety). But, the hard specs and a lower list of announced available titles despite a earlier launch date seems to indicate a lack of industry support.

The clear winner? For what? If 1080p matters to someone there is only one clear winner - Blu-Ray and the Pioneer Elite which includes it. If content matters, once again, Blu-Ray has announced more titles. Price? HD-DVD, which could be shot down by one of any number of manufacturers in the next month or two - and especially by PS3. Any external HD-DVD drive add-on is a joke. No add on accessories even matter in video game land unless they dramatically inprove the player (ethernet). If X-Box 360 started with HD-DVD, then my opinion would be different, but saying that 100,000 Blu-Ray players in consumers homes doesn't matter... WOW! That truly seems to be a bold statement.

I admit at least that the price point for HD-DVD makes it very attractive right now. Seems you don't care about anything other than price and think it is the end-all, be-all even when you question the sales of Game Cube.

Did you really say that HD-DVD is a *clear* winner? What on earth are you talking about? Did you really say this?

Your use of arguements that have no support and continued pointing to pricing when it takes more than that to make a product valuable are laughable sole statements. Your dismissal of PS3 is short-sighted and shows a lack of understanding of what the potential for PS3 is. Your insistence that the ONLY Blu-Ray player that has been announced is an $1,800 unit is flat out wrong when a $1,000 unit has also been announced and more are sure to follow.

Yes, China will be necessary as Toshiba seems to be the only company making any hardware at all for HD-DVD. Talk about eggs in a basket.

Time will tell on this, but it most definitely is not as clear cut as you try to make it out to be and just because you ignore and actually call things that matter a great deal 'RUBBISH' does not make them so.

[EDD]

There is nothing much new in your last post AV so please re-read my previous post again. Your missing all sorts of points and failing to provide the links to support your other arguments. You're just introducing more fluf-fluf and failing on the proof side.

Again... the promised PS3 or the real existing Xbox means little to NOTHING to the HD-DVD / BlurRay format war. It's interesting to note how Sony has once again been late to market, missed the Christmas rush and has lost tremendous market share but this is another topic. We're not talking about games here. The connection to games and the movie format wars is only just coincidental. This is about the Movie formats and about HD Players, not games.
EDD - You continue to say things over and over again that ignore facts.

$800 Toshiba = no 1080p comparible to? - Not the $1,800 Pioneer, but the $1,000 Samsung.

That's 200 bucks, not $1,300.00. Yes, they have a bargain priced one already listed, but was this the one we were going to see BEFORE Christmas of last year finally? I don't know, but it seems to me that comparing the cheapest model to the best model is not exactly accurate. Interesting how you don't want to compare the $499 Toshiba model. Why? My math tells me the least expensive $1,000 BR Samsung is still twice the price of Toshiba's $499 HD-DVD unit. Advantage HD-DVD by your own submission.

Also, I'm not aware of ANY TV with 1080P inputs right now. Move vaporware! This is not to say that they will not appear some day and be mainstream but for today gennerally it does not exist. So your 1080P advantage your trying to claim for BR is lame to non existant. Advantage HD-DVD All HD sets will up convert to 1080i or run native 720P. Go back and read the part about "technology in the areas THAT MATTER" In the total consumer point of view 1080P is for the nitch 1% or less of the buying public. Very few 1080P TV's are out there and non have 1080P inputs. Where's your proof for your claims? Here's mine.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/1080pdisplaysformats.php

Inferior? Well, less storage space (matters in PC land and for longer movies) lower transfer rates (lower quality HD compression), less studio support (fewer movies), fewer manufacturers (less hardware variety). But, the hard specs and a lower list of announced available titles despite a earlier launch date seems to indicate a lack of industry support.30Gb of space for HD-DVD still leaves you with waisted space on the disc. Why is MORE waisted space better? In the end all movies studios will support both formats IF BR even survives long enough. This remains to be seen.

The clear winner? For what? If 1080p matters to someone there is only one clear winner - Blu-Ray and the Pioneer Elite which includes it. If content matters, once again, Blu-Ray has announced more titles. Price? HD-DVD, which could be shot down by one of any number of manufacturers in the next month or two - and especially by PS3. Any external HD-DVD drive add-on is a joke. No add on accessories even matter in video game land unless they dramatically inprove the player (ethernet). If X-Box 360 started with HD-DVD, then my opinion would be different, but saying that 100,000 Blu-Ray players in consumers homes doesn't matter... WOW! That truly seems to be a bold statement. 1080P? see above. Clear Winner? see above. PS3? see above. Game machines? see above.

I admit at least that the price point for HD-DVD makes it very attractive right now. Seems you don't care about anything other than price and think it is the end-all, be-all even when you question the sales of Game Cube. YES! price matter! Thank You. Game Cube? see above.

Did you really say that HD-DVD is a *clear* winner? What on earth are you talking about? Did you really say this? YES! see above.

Your use of arguements that have no support and continued pointing to pricing when it takes more than that to make a product valuable are laughable sole statements. Your dismissal of PS3 is short-sighted and shows a lack of understanding of what the potential for PS3 is. Your insistence that the ONLY Blu-Ray player that has been announced is an $1,800 unit is flat out wrong when a $1,000 unit has also been announced and more are sure to follow. Make up your mind... you just said price matters above and now your saying "it takes more than that". I'm saying BR will never have a reasonably priced produce when compared to HD-DVD. Your best example is still twice the price. PS3? see above.


Yes, China will be necessary as Toshiba seems to be the only company making any hardware at all for HD-DVD. Talk about eggs in a basket.Go back and re-read original post. I NEVER said "China *will* be necessary. I now suspect your not understand half of what's been written already here.

Time will tell on this, but it most definitely is not as clear cut as you try to make it out to be and just because you ignore and actually call things that matter a great deal 'RUBBISH' does not make them so. YES! time will tell. HD-DVD IS a clear cut winner where it matters. If your still talking about your PS3 as something that matters.... well..... see above.

Why don't we just agree to disagree. Your never going to change the way I view the facts at this point with all these recent announcements. It will be an interesting year. :)

[Ratman]

Guys... let's end it and agree to disagree.

Time will tell as to which format survives. Let it go...

[jj9126]

Obviously I wasn't at the CES this week, but the Editor of "The Digital Bits" came back with the below report. It's interesting that the Blu-Ray folks seem to have captured the "word of mouth"...

"MY TWO CENTS - 1/8/06 - by Digital Bits editor Bill Hunt

Okay... I'm back from CES, I've had some time to rest and recover, and now I've got lots of stuff to start sharing with all of you. A full report on the show is coming, along with lots of pictures and even an interview. I'm going to start with the pictures first. I've begun formatting them all and I expect to start posting them later this afternoon. Some good stuff - lots of hardware, final HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc packaging, and plenty of shots from the show floor. Check back in a couple hours for those.

I'll have lots more to say later this evening and tomorrow, but let me just tell you this much now: the buzz at CES 2006 was all about Blu-ray Disc. For virtually everyone I spoke with, from hardware reps to studio execs to random, run-of-the-mill attendees on the convention floor, Blu-ray had people talking. I have to tell you this as well: Having seen all the displays, talked the tech and kicked the tires a little bit, Blu-ray Disc has me genuinely excited again - more than I've been in a long while, since back in the early days of DVD, when Divx finally threw in the towel and our current favorite home video format really took off. That was when we first started to see the first of those really great, in-depth DVD special editions, when all of the studios were targeting their releases towards serious film enthusiasts, and so were going out of their way to make each of their discs special. Now of course, most of the discs we get are cookie-cutter, marketing committee produced editions, designed to maximize profit and minimize the fun.

Well... I'm betting that Blu-ray Disc is going to bring a little of that fun back again."

[AV_Integrated]

One of the guys writing for AudioHolics:

"Hello all
Just arrived back home from a 4-hour drive and am a little tired but will try to answer some questions.
#1 HD DVD vs. Blue Ray. This is short and sweet and early but I will make the prediction that Blue Ray will be the successful format unless something changes. After seeing both It should be. HD DVD is limited to 720p or 1080i how they are calling that HD DVD I have no idea.

Blue Ray on the other hand is 1080p. at least that is what we were told at all of the demos The only saving grace I see for HD DVD is that the players are cheap and it still has Microsoft’s backing I guess when you have that company behind you your not dead yet."

[Ratman]

Why is HD-DVD limited?
720p/1080i is HD by definition.

1080p is better (if you have a set that accepts a 1080p input signal), but "at least that is what we were told at all of the demos " is not convincing IMO. Marketing hype...

Neither is 'dead'. Neither is leading the race. The timing, availability and the consumer will dictate the demise.

[EDD]

Samsung prepares Blu-ray, HD DVD combo drive. Hmmm one player that plays both. No price announced. Remember that DVD-R and DVD+R crap? :boo2: Most all DVD drives now play both easily.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28855

Now you have a choice of three drives. I'll have the combo please.... Oh... could you super size that? :whistle:

[AV_Integrated]

I know I speak strongly for Blu-Ray, but the bottom line is that I have no intention of buying a stand-alone player from either camp. I will definitely get a PS3 just because I like gaming sometimes. Without getting into PS3 vs. 360 I think sales will be comparible which means that within the first year, PS3 sales may be in the 5 million home range.

What impact this actually has on the entire Blu-Ray HD-DVD format war I can't be sure of - but that's a lot of available players.

[jj9126]

That's my exact feeling. Both Blu Ray and HD DVD can (for lack of a better term) bite me.

I'll be purchasing a PS3 for gaming and MAYBE for a couple of Blu Ray titles - but there's no way I'll purchase a standalone player for either format until the dust settles.

[AV_Integrated]

...and I guess that's it. If the PS3 performs well for HD playback, then I will get several Blu-Ray titles and will be rooting for Blu-Ray. But, unless one format proves a clear winner, I won't be buying a stand alone player... maybe that Samsung dual format player down the road. Maybe.

[LeeS]

Don't hold you breath waiting for a dual player:

http://news.com.com/A+DVD+combo+Dont+hold+your+breath/2100-1041_3-6024875.html?tag=nefd.lede

Too bad, it would be nice....

Lee

[Fastlane247]

Also, I'm not aware of ANY TV with 1080P inputs right now. Move vaporware! This is not to say that they will not appear some day and be mainstream but for today gennerally it does not exist. So your 1080P advantage your trying to claim for BR is lame to non existant. Advantage HD-DVD All HD sets will up convert to 1080i or run native 720P. Go back and read the part about "technology in the areas THAT MATTER" In the total consumer point of view 1080P is for the nitch 1% or less of the buying public. Very few 1080P TV's are out there and non have 1080P inputs. Where's your proof for your claims? Here's mine.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/1080pdisplaysformats.php


Yes there is

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/457263614

[EDD]

Yes there is

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/457263614
No there isn't.

This and many other 1080P HDTV's don't have 1080p INPUTS. Follow my link above. Without the inputs and 1080p source material, it's all just marketing hype!

This technology is a moving target.

The point is for NOW (this point in time) the 1080p argument for BluRay is lame especially if you don't have *THAT* TV NOW. So 99.9999% of today's TV's in peoples homes are NOT 1080p.

What percentage of the public is going to be able to afford them? Speaking of affording stuff... what percentage of the public is going to buy/afford BluRay? I have a good idea and it should be obvious. As previously stated, ADVANTAGE HD-DVD!

I still don't see this as an advantage for BR. Let's chat again a year from now about 1080p and we'll have a idea on how widespread they will be then. I suspect then there will still be generally a very low percentage of HD TV's with native 1080p :sherlok: Besides, if it's worth it, HD-DVD could add it in a heartbeat.

[Ratman]

No there isn't..

A-hem...
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=876&page_number=2

[Digital Doug]

EDD is pretty much correct here on the 1080p issue

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11246_7-6388574-1.html

there are only a handful that accept 1080p inputs. a couple via a computer input, and a couple via HDMI.

at this point, there are a handful of players set to come out. HD-DVD has one "low" cost player. The others, and all of BD's current line up are more expensive and aimed at the small percentage of automatic adopters that are tech heads and gear geeks.

in the end, your run of the mill consumers want a cheap player, a full slate of movies to buy, and more bang for the buck from the software.
see http://news.com.com/5208-1041-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=10077&messageID=74106&start=-1

as of today:
1. HD-DVD has a slight edge in the player price category. they don't win yet, as there are only a small handful of players out there, and a BD player could come in as low as the $499 Toshiba. I think most people were surprised by the Toshiba price......I can imagine someone out there in BD land is working on it.

2. Blu-Ray has more access to more movies. Sony has MGM and Columbia's whole back catalog and they are BluRay ONLY. All but one (Universal) of the studios supporting HD DVD have committed to Blu-Ray as well. This gives BD a slight edge here.......the HD/BD guys could offer less movies on BD to give HD a chance.

3. Blu-Ray has more potential for perceived value in the market due to the larger capacity of the discs. Not all of the disc will be used for the movies....so what goes on there? Slight advantage BD.

Overall, I think it's even at this point TODAY. Blu-Ray has access to more titles.....that is an undisputable fact. That helps them. Blu-Ray has larger capacity......that COULD help them if they start elaborating on what else is going to be on the discs. HD DVD has cracked a certain low price cherry. That brings them even for now. Blu-Ray's current lack of an "affordable" player does hurt them in the propaganda war. But it is far from over.

An overwhelming majority of Americans and Canadians STILL haven't adopted HDTV. Not enough to decide a winner. Why this is different from VHS v. Beta is this fact. Back then, you didn't have to buy a whole new TV to really reap the benefits of the new technology.....

and when Joe Bob can go into walmart and get an SD DVD player for under $50 (in many cases), why should he spend $500 on a new fangled one?

[AV_Integrated]

and when Joe Bob can go into walmart and get an SD DVD player for under $50 (in many cases), why should he spend $500 on a new fangled one?
Bingo!

Except of course Joe Bob's kids will get a PS3.

5 million PS3s are the forecast I am hearing for first year PS3 sales. I have no idea how this will compare to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray stand alone player sales, but when the camps are trying to 'woo' studios and hardware vendors, they may be saying next year: "We currently have 5.1 million Blu-Ray players in homes compared to HD-DVD which only has 1/4 million."

I think that matters so much it is just unfathomable how major it is.

As for 1080p displays - I think the same people buying a $1,800 Blu-Ray 1080p player will also be the ones looking for 1080p compatibe displays. i know the new Pioneer Elites at CES (1080p plasma) were accepting 1080p input from their Blu-Ray players. Yeah - not sure how much of an impact 1080p will have.

I think the biggest thing Blu-Ray has going for it is the format war. That is, if people know about both formats, they won't buy either. Then combine that with PS3 sales and the player may end up selling even when people don't intend to take sides.

What accepts 1080p? I know the HP does, also I believe all the Optoma (or InFocus?) projectors do as well. I'm not sure what else really - I'm not shopping for a new display at this time.

[Ratman]

OTOH...
PS3 will sell because of the gaming, not HD.

I can't believe that a gaming system will drive the movie industry.

I also don't believe that 1080p TV's will have any impact on standalone players. Early adopters will buy for their existing TV's.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with the "gaming" aspect as being the 'brute force' to sway the technology.

Show me the <$500 player today and some software, and I'll have one in my home tonight. Either format...

[AV_Integrated]

I can't believe that a gaming system will drive the movie industry.
:) That's okay - I believe enough for both of us. ;) I also haven't heard a explanation that refutes the numbers I am giving or the reality that people may steer clear... except for the PS3 already in their homes.
I also don't believe that 1080p TV's will have any impact on standalone players. Early adopters will buy for their existing TV's.
I don't either - I'm just saying that more and more 1080p displays will be sold with full 1080p connectivity. Especially from the players supporting Blu-Ray. Especailly with so many 1080p displays being available.

Show me the <$500 player today and some software, and I'll have one in my home tonight. Either format...
I don't think if you show the world that player and go "But - it may be obsolete in a year or two." they would be buying with you.

In the end, this is conjecture for at least one more year... or more.

[Ratman]

IMO... a 'fanboy' of gaming. PS3 will sell no doubt. For gamers... not Home Theater buffs. When it's available...

Obviously more and more 1080p TV's will sell... when they become more available... (more choices, less price)

Either format could be obsolete in a year or two. But... PS3 will survive for Sony and gamers. The only 'saving grace' to possibly keep BRD from becoming another white elephant.

[Digital Doug]

IMO... a 'fanboy' of gaming. PS3 will sell no doubt. For gamers... not Home Theater buffs. When it's available...

Obviously more and more 1080p TV's will sell... when they become more available... (more choices, less price)

Either format could be obsolete in a year or two. But... PS3 will survive for Sony and gamers. The only 'saving grace' to possibly keep BRD from becoming another white elephant.

I am not sold on the PS3 being the saving grace for Blu-Ray either. In reality, with the rumored costs, it only levels them with Toshiba's low cost player. Of course, you do get more non-gaming aspects from the PS3, as it supports DVD-A and SACD, but I am the only one I know that cares about this fact.

When we see players break the $300 level, and if one format has a wealth of titles over another, it will sort itself out.

Anyways, with the gaming power of PS3, Joe Bob's kids are going to want to play Final Fantasy for days at a time, and you won't have time to watch a movie because you're too busy fighting for control! :)

[EDD]

This has probably been discussed before, but the HVD or holographic video disc could outdo both currently competing formats
The problem with this besides what's already been mention is that there is only one standard. The consumer will never see this until there are at least two competing standards. :nono2:

[wifeB8]

and did you hear about Netflix? They will only carry BLu-ray rentals...

good...it's because I rent from Netflix....hah



Quote:
A Netflix spokesman said his company could not comment on specific plans, but would carry whatever consumers demand.

"Ultimately there will be a standard," Netflix spokesman Steven Swasey said. "It would be good to get there earlier rather than later, rather than having it fractionalised."


Do you have a link?

I could only find this (http://www.cnet.com.au/desktops/dvdburners/print.htm?TYPE=story&AT=40055860-39029405t-10000078c) from July 12/05

No big surprise. Until the dust settles expect to see the top rental places carry both formats. That should take a bit out of the sting of having to pay a premium price to view HD movies.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8FB39AO6.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&chan=db

[DVdude]

Blu-Ray Proposes Region Codes For Future HD Titles

The Blu-Ray Disc Association has reportedly decided to adopt region codes for the forthcoming High Definition movie releases, while the rival HD DVD camp has not yet come up with a final decision on the same issue.

Citing latest talks among the AACS LA members (Advanced Access Content System) that belong to the Blu-ray Disc Association, the Japanese publication IT media reports that the Blu-Ray camp has proposed to adopt regional coding for the HD movies stored on BD-ROM media. "Region 1" would cover North and South America, and East Asia excluding China. Europe and Africa would cover "Region 2," and China, Russia, and other countries would constitute "Region 3." On the other hand, the HD DVD camp may not be used in HD DVD.

According to the same report, Warner Bros. representatives supported the abolishment of any region codes, claiming that they have been proven ineffective in the past. However, some AACS LA members were seeing a possible scenario where East Asian pirate videos could flow into European and North American markets, since they would be regionally compatible.

Source: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=15856

---

Retailers: DVD Format War 'Stupid,' Harmful

LAS VEGAS*—*Consumers, confused over the brewing battle between next-generation DVD technologies, are not alone: Top U.S. electronics retailers at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas called the war "nightmarishly unfriendly" and "stupid."

Stores like Best Buy (BBY), Circuit City (CC) and closely held CompUSA may sell millions of devices, either HD DVD or its rival, Blu-ray, and some day one version could be obsolete, drawing the ire of their customers. What's more, many will chose not to buy any device, instead waiting for one format to win...

Full Story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,181095,00.html

[jj9126]

Those Blu-Ray region codes are fine by me. Most of the imports I watch are from Japan and South Korea, so I'll be covered.

[DVdude]

NETFLIX WILL SUPPORT HIGH-DEF DVD AT LAUNCH

LOS GATOS, Calif. - January 24, 2006 - Netflix Inc. (Nasdaq: NFLX), the world's largest online movie rental service, today announced it will carry the first movies available in HD DVD when the new high-definition format launches in late March, according to plans recently outlined by several major movie studios, and said it will similarly offer titles in the Blu-ray format when that product launches, expected to be later this year...

Full Press Release: http://www.netflix.com/PressRoom?id=5312

[AV_Integrated]

There are many companies that are showing up fairly format neutral...

Netflix will carry both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, Warner, if it releases a HD version of a movie will do so in both formats as well.

Wish we could see that Samsung dual format player.

[wifeB8]

A heads up move form Netflix and Warner being that both formats will reach the consumer. In the end the consumer will decide which format will win as it should be. Tired of companies trying to sell a format based on speculation and vaporware. “Show me the money”.
Digitalbits is reporting that Warner has announced a price point for HDDVD’s although I did not see that in Warner’s press release. Digital bits is known to exaggerate or embellish their commentary.

http://thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

[wifeB8]

And the beat goes on!..........or should I say it looks like it’s going in to life support at this point................Is this format ever going to launch? :(

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/69559

[wifeB8]

AACS finally finalized…….. :thankyou3 Anyone have a complete list of the tour cities that Toshiba plans on visiting? I can’t imagine only one place in Southern California having this demo.

Wondering if Toshiba will leave demo units on display beyond the tour date leading up to the product launch.

http://www.engadget.com,%20www.engadget.com/2006/02/17/aacs-finalized-blu-ray-and-hd-dvd-game-on/

http://sev.prnewswire.com/consumer-electronics/20060216/NETH02616022006-1.html

Found a more complete list Toshiba HD-DVD’s tour. Hope you’re close to a tour city.
From what I’m hearing these events are being plan as all day public events but you might what to check with the particular store.

http://www.dvdtown.com/media/pdf/hddvd_tour.pdf

[DVdude]

AACS finally finalized
Just curious as to where you heard this, as the latest I heard is that HD-DVD and BRD are both delayed again due to AACS issues.

HD DVD and Blu-ray delayed again, as AACS is pushed back
2/14/2006 8:16:57 PM, by Ken "Caesar" Fisher

Remember all of the positioning about which next-generation optical format would hit the market first? Forget about it. It now appears that both formats will hit the market at the same time, because delays in the security specification that they both share have left everyone—device manufacturers, movie studios, and the leaders of the respective formats—in a holding pattern. The final specification of the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) has been delayed again, meaning that the final specifications needed to produce HD DVD and Blu-ray products still sits off in the undetermined future...

Full Story: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060214%2D6182.html

[wifeB8]

DVdude,

Finalized to the point were the committee felt that interim keys would be made available and future ones would be firmware upgradable. By no means is this the final version.

http://www.aacsla.com/press/

[DVdude]

The AACS spec is unfortunate for those with older HDTV's that only have component input...

Early HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules
Tuesday, February 21, 2006

If you're one of the first adopters who mortgaged the house to buy the earliest HDTV displays, don't expect to get full HD resolution when you take out a second mortgage for a high-def disc player when they come out later this year. Today the copy-protection rules for Blu-ray or HD DVD — the two formats competing to be the standard for HD discs — are being unveiled. Called Advanced Access Content System (AACS), the rules clearly show the major movie studios are determined to stymie potential piracy, but their efforts may short-change people with older HDTVs. AACS says the new players won't output a full-HD signal from their component-video connections, since those jacks are analog instead of digital and thus have no copy protection. The "down-rezzed" signals will be limited to a resolution of 960 x 540 pixels — exactly one-quarter the 1,920 x 1,080 pixels that you'll get through the copy-protected digital connectors on the players. The potentially huge problem with this strategy is that the only HD inputs on a lot of older HDTVs are component video. Estimates vary, but it's believed 3 to 6.6 million such displays are in U.S. households. And the sun will set on analog video for good after Dec. 31, 2013, when AACS-licensed players can't be made or sold with any analog video outputs, including the familiar yellow composite-video jack.

In addition to the "image constraint" issue, AACS has a few unresolved points, so the first players that are due to come out this spring won't have all the features promised by HD DVD and Blu-ray. For one thing, you won't be able to copy material from a disc to, say, your PC via the "managed copying" function. On the vaguely less depressing side, you should be able to upgrade hardware when these features get finalized — so all you'd have to do is get an upgrade disc or download the upgrade from the manufacturer. Looking for someone to blame for all this? Pick your target: AACS was jointly developed by Disney, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba, and Warner.

Source: http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/early_hdtv_adopters_screwed_by_hddisc_rules.html#more

[DVdude]

Sony PS3 launch could be delayed
Monday, February 20, 2006

TOKYO, Japan (Reuters) -- Sony Corp.'s launch of its next-generation PlayStation 3 video game console could be delayed if industry specifications for some of its technology are not finalized soon, although it is still aiming for a spring rollout, it said on Monday.

The launch of PlayStation 3 (PS3) has been the subject of heavy speculation in the industry as expectations are high for the powerful machine, which will feature cutting-edge technology in its DVD player, processors and graphics.

PS3 will be competing with Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360, which went on sale last November, and Nintendo Co. Ltd.'s Revolution, which is expected later this year.

"We're aiming for spring, but we haven't announced specific regions," a spokeswoman for Sony Computer Entertainment said, adding that it was waiting for the final specifications on some of the technology it is using in the PS3, such as that related to the Blu-ray DVD drive and to input and output video and sound...

Full Story: http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/fun.games/02/20/sony.playstation.reut/index.html

[wifeB8]

Targeted Blu-ray launch date set for May 23rd

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-27-2006/0004307028&EDATE=

[wifeB8]

Oh!............. It is now Sony’s turn to play there “Art of War” card: “ Hold Your Friends Close and Your Enemies Closer”

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/27/sony_hddvd/

[DVdude]

TDK BEGINS SHIPPING ITS HIGHLY ANTICIPATED BLU-RAY DISC 25GB RECORDABLE AND REWRITABLE MEDIA

– Exclusive Material Formulations and Manufacturing Processes Deliver
Bit-Perfect Recording and Playback –

GARDEN CITY, NY, April 10, 2006 – TDK, a world leader in digital recording solutions, today announced that it has begun shipping 25GB recordable and rewritable Blu-ray Disc media to retailers nationwide. A pioneer of blue laser recording technology and founding member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, TDK is the first to market with bare Blu-ray Disc media. Retail pricing is set at $19.99 for a 25GB BD-R (recordable) and $24.99 for a 25GB BD-RE (rewritable). In addition, TDK will ship 50GB Blu-ray Disc media later this year with retail pricing set at $47.99 for a 50GB BD-R (recordable) and $59.99 for a 50GB BD-RE (rewritable).

The revolutionary single-sided discs are bare, cartridge-free media. The 25GB products are single layer whereas the 50GB products have a dual layer recording material structure. TDK first shipped mass production samples in December 2005, and with the subsequent issuance of the relevant license, the company immediately commenced full force manufacturing.

"TDK is pleased to be the first to market with bare Blu-ray Disc media, which can be counted among the most significant product introductions in the company’s distinguished 70 year history," noted Bruce Youmans, TDK Vice President of Marketing. "TDK has been involved in the development of blue laser recording technology since 1998, and TDK innovations such as hard coating and our inorganic dye formulation have played an essential role in making this revolutionary new format a reality. From backing up today’s large capacity hard drives and servers to authoring and recording high definition video and sharing high resolution digital image collections, TDK Blu-ray Discs set new standards in recording and playback by offering unprecedented capacities, fast transfer rates and revolutionary durability."

Full Press Release: http://www.tdk.com/procommon/press/article.asp?site=corp&recid=115

---

Pricing observations... The storage capacity is great, but those prices really hurt!

I can currently buy 50-packs of DVD-R media (4.7GB) for under $25.00, just about anywhere... that's $0.50 cents or less per DVD-R and only about $0.10 cents per GB.

On the other hand, with the initial Blu-Ray Disc price of around $25.00 for a 25GB BR disc and $50.00 for a 50 GB BR disc means that a 50-pack of 25 GB discs would cost $1,250 and a 50-pack of 50 GB discs would cost $2,500 (100 x the cost of DVD-R 50-packs). Hopefully the bulk pricing will be cheaper than that, and as users adapt to the new technology those media prices should drop along with the hardware prices.

Nevertheless, with all the new hardware and software upgrades required, it will initially be an expensive proposition for the early adapters.

[MikeA]

I get press releases from this company at work. Interesting reading:

Round One in the High Definition DVD Format Fight

Oyster Bay, NY - April 19, 2006 - Toshiba's HD DVD player started shipping to US retailers this week, four months ahead of Sony's scheduled release of its Blu-ray format players. North America represents by far the most important market for the new high-definition formats, accounting for more than 60% of all HDTVs that ABI Research expects will be shipped during 2006.

What does this mean for the prospects of the rival formats? Will HD DVD's earlier entry to the market and substantially lower price tag give it the edge over Blu-ray? The answer is "yes" in the short term, but as time passes, complicating factors may shift the balance.

By the end of 2006, according to the latest update to the firm's Consumer Electronics Research Service, Blu-ray players alone will account for only about 30% of the global high-definition DVD player market, but there is a catch: PlayStation 3. Sony's next-generation game console will play Blu-ray discs, and when it is launched, its large expected sales figures could change the market dominance picture dramatically.

According to ABI Research's Vamsi Sistla, Director, Broadband and Multimedia Research, Sony has another card up its sleeve: its strong relationships with the movie studios. "However," he cautions, "the studios' support is not carved in stone, but is based on the perceived size of the market for a particular technology. If studios see that HD DVD has a higher market share, or continues to increase its penetration, they could support it instead of—or as well as—Blu-ray. They don't really care what technology is used as long as it meets their copyright protection needs and enjoys support from the vendor community."

For example Netflix, the leading online movie retailer, has announced that it will support both formats.

But who will bear the brunt of the extra costs needed to support two standards? Initially, it will probably be shared between content owners and consumers. Releasing titles on two formats simultaneously means that content owners will be less able to benefit from economies of scale. A further consequence of an ongoing "battle of the brands" is that the prices of both players and discs are likely to remain at relatively high levels longer than if there were a single standard.

Does anyone win in such an equation? "Yes," says Sistla. "Retailers such as Amazon, Best Buy and Wal-Mart, who will carry whatever sells."