Argument - Plasma is the Best?

[Poke598]

I'm having a bit of a disagreement with my dad about HDTVs. I am about to leave to buy a Magnavox 51MP392H (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926HDS0010061322&catid=23250) that I have been watching for a month or two. The price just dropped from $1299 to $999 CAD. My dad insists that anything other than a plasma is "crap". I tried to explain to him the disadvantages such as the burn-in, viewing angles, and how the picture slowly degrades until the gases run out, but he doesn't believe anything. He wants it because of how expensive it is (he always wants to buy the most expensive models of everything). He basically thinks because the one I'm buying is only $999, it's far inferior to his $3500 plasma that he intends to buy. He's never even touched a computer in his life, so he knows nothing about technology. I know that the plasma tvs look better at first sight, but I am only interested in an entry level HDTV to start off with. All the TVs in my house are at least 5 years old (1991 32'' RCA, 1996 13'' GE, 1998 28'' RCA, 2 2000 19''s RCAs). Please say your opinions, I am leaving now. Thank you!

[57U]

That TV will be fine, especially once you set it up properly. It may even look better than his plasma, if he hasn't set his up. Read the following HDTV FAQs.

- What you need to do to your new HDTV
- Types of HDTV
- How large an HDTV to buy.
- Burn in (which will also occur on your TV if you don't heed the FAQ)
Etc.

Plasmas and Flat Panel LCDs are expensive because they're thin, because they hang on the wall, and because they're sexy - making the retailers and manufacturers a lot more money than CRTs. It has almost nothing to do with picture quality.

[Kal Rubinson]

I tried to explain to him the disadvantages such as the burn-in, viewing angles, and how the picture slowly degrades until the gases run out, but he doesn't believe anything.

What's best depends on the context, so I won't take sides but your arguments are spurious.

1. Burn-in is manageable unless you are dumb or misuse the plasma.
2. Plasma is better and brighter off angle than any RP I've yet seen.
3. The degradation is so slow that a normally-used plasma will last longer than one's interest in it. (And the gases done run out.)

Of course, your Dad's $$$-based position is equally spurious.

Kal

[Poke598]

Ok, well I purchased the TV. I went to Best Buy and they insisted that they don't have it in stock, but the guy kept contradicting himself, first saying it was not there, then saying it was, then going back to his original story. I checked the store stock before I left, and it said they had it. He went in the back and typed it into the computer. Apparently, they had 3 units "on hand" but only 2 "fresh in box", I guess the display model was the other one on hand. They took me into the warehouse but stopped me as soon as I saw the Xbox 360s that were also in there. The salesman said the would not fit into my extended Venture van as well. At first I assumed they just wanted to make the delivery cost, but I don't think it will fit either. So I went to Future Shop and bought it. it's coming on Wednesday. I got the Rogers HD Starter Kit as well, that should arrive about the same time. I read those FAQs, and now it just amazes me that all these seniors and other untechnological people will buy HDTVs and never tune them. I'm not going to buy that DVD, but I'll do it myself. I also did not buy the warranty. Thanks for your help. Now I must wait. :whistle:

I noticed on Magnavox.com, they have convergence recommendations for this specific model. Do you think it would be wise to follow what that says, or get a professional to do it?

Another thing I just realized, this TV will be in a room with a fireplace, and I also have many smokers in the house. Will this force the mirror to require frequent cleanings? What if I put a fan or air purifier around there for better ventilation?

[57U]

1. When you got the Rogers Starter Kit, did you get the "plain" STB (SA3250HD) or the DVR (SA8300HD). People love their DVRs, even though it's quite a bit more expensive (about $25/mo to rent once your free period is over)

2. With the smokers, the CRTs and the mirror will require periodic cleaning. These need to be cleaned very carefully - the mirror is "first surface", which means you're cleaning the reflecting material, not the glass like a regular mirror.

[Poke598]

1. I chose the standard HD terminal, although I wanted the PVR. I didn't get it because the trial period is only 6 months compared to 12 months for the plain one. My Rogers bill is high enough already, I don't think I could afford $25 per month to rent a box just to record shows. Even to purchase it's $599 compared to $299. What if I bought one on Ebay after the trial period? Could I activate that one?

2. I suppose I'll call someone to clean it periodically.

[57U]

What if I bought one on Ebay after the trial period? Could I activate that one?No, Rogers will only activate STBs purchased from them or their authorized distributors. I believe I've seen them for as low as $499 on sale occasionally. If you want one after your 1 year, keep an eye open - they may be $400 by then, or less.

My time is simply too valuable to watch live TV. I haven't done so in almost 30 years (since the VCR in the 70's. I can either watch 2-3 times as much TV in the same time, or have many hours left over each week.

I gladly pay a couple hundred a year for that. The cost is pennies per hour, and I get paid a lot more than that...

[Poke598]

Ok, I received the TV. I just have a few little problems. I knew before I purchased this that it only had 1 HDTV Input. I have a Rogers 3250HD Digital Box that must be plugged into there, and I also have an Xbox with HDTV cables. I hate the thought of having to climb behind the TV to unplug 6 wires and insert new ones everytime I want to play with the Xbox. Also, I don't get any HD channels except for PBS right now. I guess I will call them. I also noticed that all my standard channels are in the 800's instead of normal two digits. Another thing, the black bars that are seen on the left and right sides when on SD channels, those don't contribute to burn-in, right? In the digital box settings, you can customize the colour of those bars. I currently have it set on black. I also tried to do the convergence, but I can't figure it out. Is it all that necessary, or is it just a convenience? I changed the colour, contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc. to 50, should I be alright there? Thanks!

[57U]

1. See the HDTV FAQ on "Tips for SA STBs". Make sure you set it up properly.

2. The SD channels should be 2-71 or so once you're properly activated. The channels in the 800s should be the analogue equivalents and the channels 2-71 should be clearer.

3. Type "component video switch" into the site's search engine, or your favourite web search engine. You can buy switches from about $20-$200.

4. Black Bars are the worst for burn in. See the HDTV FAQ on "Burn In".

5. Read the other FAQs.

[Poke598]

I checked the signal strength in the digital box, it says -11 on most channels, but I switched to the one HD channel I am receiving, PBS, and it says -12. The S/N is about 26. Obviously that is not normal. Also, according to the Rogers guide that came with the digital box, with the 3250HD, I should be able to pause, rewind live tv, just not record it. How can I go about doing that?

[acslayta]

I just read through the above thread and had just a couple comments...

1) I think you made a great choice by going with a non-plasma model. If it's in your price range then that's what matters most. Plus once you calibrate it properly it'll look great. I have a Sony rear projection and I absolutely love it - it may not be sexy but the picture is superb and that's what matters most. Check out a DVD called Avia Guide to Home Theater to properly calibrate it. You can buy it or 'find' it on the internet.

2) I would really consider the DVR for one main reason: if you ever record a program now you'll have to do so on a lousy VCR which will be look like crap on the TV. You spent a grand to enjoy HD and now you're stuck watching analogue. You can record and watch at your convience - which doesn't sound like a big deal, but if you were to experience it with the DVR you'd be hooked immediately. For example I love a show on TSN called PTI, which starts at 4:30 CST. Sometimes I get home from work in time to watch it live, sometimes I don't. But because of my DVR I never have to worry because I have a series recording set on my box. If I was using a VCR I'd have to set it up every morning to record 'just in case' i don't make it home. With the DVR I never worry!

3) Consider the product service protection plan from future shop. Cleaning of the lenses is included within the plan. First though, I'd just make sure the smoking thing won't be a problem.

Just a bunch of incoherent ramblings. Either way, enjoy that TV. Once you go HD you'll never go back :)

[Poke598]

I can't even connect the Xbox via the High Definition AV Pack. I get a garbled display with every combination of connections. :(

[57U]

1. PBS, and it says -12. The S/N is about 26.
2. Also, according to the Rogers guide that came with the digital box, with the 3250HD, I should be able to pause, rewind live tv, just not record it. 1. The 26 is quite low and the -12 is not very good either. If you have any splitters upstream of the STB, remove them for a better signal. Also have Rogers come out to improve the signal.

2. I have no idea what you're talking about. The SA3250HD is not a DVR and it cannot pause/rewind live TV. Only the SA8X00HD (DVR) can do that. Perhaps they are talking about the Rogers on demand channel?

[Poke598]

I'm still getting those bad numbers, but the picture looks perfectly fine to me. There are no splitters and it is a fairly new installed outlet. I noticed channels like CBS have much better picture quality than say, Raptors TV. But CBS and FOX on the Sunday Ticket channels look perfect to me even with -12, should I still call? Also, is there any other connection I can use such as DVI, Cable, or S-Video that will give me the same picture quality as component, or close to it? This would enable me to leave both the Xbox and the Digital Box plugged in.

[57U]

You could try DVI - See the HDTV FAQ on "DVI/HDMI Information". You can buy a cable for about $1-$20. S-video is not HD - see the HdTV FAQ "Cables & Connections".

If DVI and the X-box are plugged into the same input, then you may not be able to leave them both hooked up since the DVI would "override" the Component video. The SA3250HD signal is "always on", even with the STB turned off.

If the X-box is on a separate input, then you'll be OK.

If you're not having any signal problems, then you may wish not to call Rogers. The -12 is "borderline" and some people have been able to "make do" with say -18 or -19...

[Poke598]

So if I hooked up the Digital Box with the DVI cable and the Xbox with the component cables, on different inputs, I should be alright? Is there any major drawback in picture quality from component to DVI?

[57U]

Inputs - You should be fine.

DVI/CVI - If you're lucky, DVI may even be superior.

[Matt27]

Ok, I received the TV. I just have a few little problems. I knew before I purchased this that it only had 1 HDTV Input. I have a Rogers 3250HD Digital Box that must be plugged into there, and I also have an Xbox with HDTV cables. I hate the thought of having to climb behind the TV to unplug 6 wires and insert new ones everytime I want to play with the Xbox. Also, I don't get any HD channels except for PBS right now. I guess I will call them. I also noticed that all my standard channels are in the 800's instead of normal two digits. Another thing, the black bars that are seen on the left and right sides when on SD channels, those don't contribute to burn-in, right? In the digital box settings, you can customize the colour of those bars. I currently have it set on black. I also tried to do the convergence, but I can't figure it out. Is it all that necessary, or is it just a convenience? I changed the colour, contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc. to 50, should I be alright there? Thanks!

Well as long as your contrast is pretty low the black bars should'nt be an issue, i use 4:3 mode for some games that are not in widescreen since i don't like stretching them and it works fine with me.Well for convergance i'd only adjust that when you see color fringing after a while.As for you picture settings well you can do color by eye as well as contrast,but for brightness you need a calibration disc with a pluge pattern to set it right so you see all the details in dark areas,you don't want it too low or else you won't see detail in dark areas.

for starters you could either leave contrast at 50% like i do,since CRT's look best at that setting, that's why our computer monitors look so crisp they use 50% as well to look best.You could lower it more if you like but i'd say 50% is just fine.a word of advice don't put this any higher than 50% or else you could run the risk of burn-in on the display from static images being displayed aftyer a while like station logos in the corner of the screen.Also too high a contrast setting will cause the whites to bloom and detail will be lost and blurred and smeared.

For color usually you would adjust this untill people and objects don't glow,bloom you want every thing to look natural looking,i would lower color quite a bit to also get rid of red push since many HDTV sets have too much red out of the factory.The picture will be more detailed as well when the color is lowered since other colors will no longer smear over each other revealing itty bitty details you could'nt see before because there was too much color causing colors to bleed. A setting of 42 or less might be right, just do it by eye and adjust untill colors no longer glow or bloom.

for brightness use a pluge pattern with a calibration disc once set you will see lots of shadow detail and the picture will have an almost 3D like depth to it.You can ask other people on this board if you want to know more on how to use a pluge pattern.

Tint i would just leave alone in the middle.

For Color temp use the one that gives you the most neutral white the one that gives you a good white color not bluish white and not redish white, but just white.

Sharpness, for doing this you need a calibration disc with test patterns to see if their is an yringing around the edges.You adjust the sharpness untill the lines dissapear,don't adjust it too low or else the picture may be out of focus, you want to get a good balance,typically this is when the lines just dissapear this is the right setting.Or you could just leave it at 50% if you see no ringing this is good.

Make sure you turn any auto-settings off like "Velocity Scan Modulation" you don't want this on since this will obscure fine detail and ruin tiny objects,and it will give everybody a cookie cutter appearance, it's best left off,edge enhancements mar the image.Auto-color,Auto-contrast stuff like that turn them off.

Your best bet is to get a calibration disc, it will help you put the settiungs where they belong.

Cheers :cheers:

[Poke598]

Thanks for your time and help, everyone. I just checked and there is no DVI input on my TV, what am I thinking? Anyway, would I get the same picture quality if I used the cable connection from the Digital Box?