View Full Version : 720p or 1080i?
goherd90
01-08-2006, 06:10 PM
I just purchased an HDDVR Direct TV Tivo and it has options to change output i.e, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i. My questin is if I am watching a broadcast NFL HD that is in 720P should I logically have my input at 720p as well or should I put 1080i? What impact would this have on the picture? I tried and cannot really notice one way or the other...thanks
one last note..when I am watching SD I know to change it to s video and 480i....the picture does come in much better that way....should I be doing this as well?
ret369
01-08-2006, 07:16 PM
I have a LCD that is native at 720p, so I set my d*tv box to 1080i and leave it there. I love how the sd looks upconverted. your set may have a different navtive setting have so it may be different than my to set. :smokin:
HDTV-NUT
01-08-2006, 07:30 PM
I would just set it to 1080i.
goherd90
01-08-2006, 10:20 PM
not sure what your referring to in NATIVE? My plasma accepts all HD inputs 720p and 1080i? How do I determine this? By the pixels????
Funny how your sd looks better at 1080i and mine definitely better through s video at 480i???
Can anyone explain why this may be????
I would just set it to 1080i.
Same here. I leave mine set to 1080i for everything including SD. My projector is native 720p and everything except for ABC and ESPN (pretty much) is all 1080i. I let the projector do the downconvert on the 1080i. I feel the projector does a better job of converting that the D* box.
I really can't see any difference.
IF the HD Tivo had 'Native Passthrough' I would set it there but it doesn't :(
Funny how your sd looks better at 1080i and mine definitely better through s video at 480i???
Can anyone explain why this may be????
Probably the quality of the built-in deinterlacer/scaler. The one in the D*box or the TV.
Lee
If you have a display that can do TRUE 720p/60 native display, and you have source
(CATV BOX) that can put out a TRUE 720/P60 HD signal, it really dumb to cross convert to 1080i and then back to 720p because you lose the true 60 frames per second which is the main advantage of 720P format in the first place. 720P is optimized for motion compared to 1980i but you lose that advantage with these format cross conversions.... If your TV is really good at converting true 1080i signals
to 720P for display ( better than the box is) then I would recommend setting the box
for "native out" so the box puts out whatever format is being broadcast...not 720P
all the time or 1080i all the time. Not all boxes have this option unfortunately....
goherd90
01-09-2006, 03:45 PM
pefect....this is what I was thinking...if fox broadcast their football games in 720p....why wouldn't I set my box to match.....but some folks r saying they leave at 1080i
Ratman
01-09-2006, 03:52 PM
There is no right or wrong. Experiment and use what looks best to you.
Ratman is correct, there is no right or wrong.
If you would like to switch the D* box for each input, that is what is good for you.
Personally I would much rather have the Faroudja DCDi in my projector do the deinterlacing/scaling than my D* box. Since most everything I watch is 1080i with very little 720p I just leave the D* box at 1080i.
I've had the FP for 2 years and the HD Tivo over a year. I've tried the component input to the FP and the HDMI/DVI. I've tried both 720p and 1080i and to be quite honest there is not enough difference to get excited about and I am constantly tweaking with things but generally go for what is 'easy'.
Just use what looks best to you and is easiest to use and be happy :) If you like tweaking with things all the time just switch the Tivo for the different inputs and be happy, its just a button push on the remote.
One important thing to consider is 'Family' or 'Spouse' friendly. If you make it too difficult to use and they won't use it. Hard to justify new equipment when the significant other can't see a need. All my family, wife, kids and grandkids, find my system easy to use. No complicated switching schemes and changing formats. Power on, pick DVD or SAT on the Rcvr and the FP tracks the receiver input.
Anyway, I'm drifting off subject a tad. Its all fun, no one can tell you what looks best, you have to determine that yourself. Sometimes you may have to give up a little for convenience. (But don't give up too much ;) )
Unfortunately the HD Tivo doesn't have 'native passthrough' so you have to pick 720p or 1080i. Wish it had native passthrough, as I said earlier that is what I'd use if it had the option.
By the way, I set my DVD player to 480i and let the projector do the deinterlacing and scaling. I've tried several upconverting DVD players and each time I go back to 480i. The latest one I tried was the Samsung 950. My favorite DVD player to use is an old Technics DVD-A10 and it isn't even progressive. This works best for me but probably not for most people.
A good deinterlacer/scaler/enhancer makes all the difference. It may be in the display, DVD player or SAT/Cable Box. There are displays with Faroudja processors, DVD players and now even some receivers with them. Imagine a receiver that upconverts to HD resolution now. Just when you thought it was going to be easy :D
Lee
goherd90
01-10-2006, 09:54 AM
thanks to all who have resonded.......great forum
I forgot to mention, in the onscreen setup for the HD Tivo, you can set the resolutions you can cycle through with the remote. Makes it easier if you will be switching between 720p and 1080i.
I found I did like the HDMI out for sports (crisp) but I like the component for movies (smooth). Really depends on the display I guess. :)
Enjoy,
Lee
goherd90
01-10-2006, 11:22 AM
that's the nice feature I like...i simply cycle thru the various options..i.e. 720p or 1080i to see what looks best to me
goherd90
01-10-2006, 05:17 PM
ok..so to my original question...if foxhd is being broadcast at 720p....u r saying I should have my dtv box at 720p as well and not 1080i?
kevinw
01-10-2006, 05:37 PM
ok..so to my original question...if foxhd is being broadcast at 720p....u r saying I should have my dtv box at 720p as well and not 1080i?
Have your box set to what your tv outputs. If yopur TV displays 720p then set it for 720p if 1080i then 1080i.
goherd90
01-10-2006, 06:16 PM
my tv DISPLAYS 720 and 1080.....,maybe I should of rephrased the question...if a particular broadcast is in 720p I should have my dtv box set to match and likewise if a broadcast is in 1080i I should change the dtv box to match at1080i?.....its only a matter of hitting my up arrow to change outputs so it is not a big deal
Ratman
01-10-2006, 06:26 PM
my tv DISPLAYS 720 and 1080.....,
Your TV natively displays:
1365 X 768 Native Pixel Resolution Plasma TV Display
Everything is displayed at this resolution, no matter the input resolution/format.
Posts 8 and 17 are your best options IMO.
Most TVs seem to "prefer" a 1080i input signal, especially if they don't actually display natively at "exactly" 720P, however, as Ratman says, experiment away.
Most everyone keeps saying when they "experiment" with this setting they see little to no difference in picture quality. If you've done this and agree with the previous statement of mine here, then consider this.
720p 60 or 1080i 30 use the same exact bandwidth. They contain the same data. THEY ARE THE SAME and thus appear to be the same. Ones progressive and ones interlaced and as such CAN NOT "appear" better since there is NO additional data coming to your eyes!
What IS important here is the refresh rate. This IS different. If I had a choice of 720p 60 or 1080i 30 it's clear which would be better. It's 720p 60 for technical reasons alone and it's superior to your eyes. Again... an important fact here, which has been pointed out, is that you get TWICE the refresh rate. Higher rates are better for your eyes and cause less fatigue. :wow:
If your unsure about this play with your PC's monitor setting and choose different refresh rates and you'll fine YOUR threshold where you begin to see flicker or not. The further you're away (towards higher refresh rates) from the point where your eyes can detect flicker the better.
The clear winner here is 720P 60 because of the higher refresh rate. Cutting up an image and displaying it at alternating lines is technically NOT clearer. Don't be fooled into thinking it's better just because it's numbers are higher (720 vs 1080). It's refresh rates that matter most.
Now... if this was not true then why would all the manufacturer be pushing 1080P? Think about it. :hyper:
1080 = 1080 so it's the same for the numbers game here so why is it better then?... well the obvious reason is your getting twice the amount of data (it's progressive!) here as opposed to the SAME amount of data for BOTH 720p and 1080i.
Ratman
01-11-2006, 02:27 PM
All non-CRT displays are progressive anyway. No one's 'pushing' 1080p... that's a marketing technique.
All non-CRT displays are progressive anyway. No one's 'pushing' 1080p... that's a marketing technique.But this is exactly what I mean. The digital Manufacturers are the ones pushing the "new" 1080p format. Maybe I'm missing something. :)
nickyct
01-11-2006, 10:14 PM
MY Sharp 32" LCD is 720p native but I set my set top box to 1080i for the output.
I did not notice the quality in picture between ABC (720p) and CBS (1080I) at all.
But I did notice digital artifacts during fast motion on CBS but not on ABC. To my eyes. Picture on both channel looks stunning.
When all stations broadcast in 1080p then it might solve the problem which one is better.
MY Sharp 32" LCD is 720p native but I set my set top box to 1080i for the output.
I did not notice the quality in picture between ABC (720p) and CBS (1080I) at all.
But I did notice digital artifacts during fast motion on CBS but not on ABC. To my eyes. Picture on both channel looks stunning.
When all stations broadcast in 1080p then it might solve the problem which one is better.
If by 1080P you mean 1080P/60 which would have the higher resoution of 1080i/60
and the 60 progressive frames for smoother fast motion of 720p/60, yes that would be better but dont look for it anytime soon, its not one of the ATSC
standards and would take twice the maximum bandwidth alloted now for broadcasters.
MY Sharp 32" LCD is 720p native but I set my set top box to 1080i for the output.
I did not notice the quality in picture between ABC (720p) and CBS (1080I) at all.
But I did notice digital artifacts during fast motion on CBS but not on ABC. To my eyes. Picture on both channel looks stunning.
When all stations broadcast in 1080p then it might solve the problem which one is better.
Have you tried setting your box for 720P? I dont see how you can say they both look stunning if you are noticing artifacts with CBS, I find artifacts disapppointing, not stunning.....Unless you mean stunned in disbelief and disappointment with CBS. :) I really like CBS 1080i signal, it looks really good to me most of the time, better than NBC in a lot of cases I think...But my set is 1080i native....
nickyct
01-11-2006, 11:28 PM
Have you tried setting your box for 720P? I dont see how you can say they both look stunning if you are noticing artifacts with CBS, I find artifacts disapppointing, not stunning
I did set it to 720p and I didn't notice the difference so I just switch back to 1080i since there's more 1080i channels than 720p.
When there's not too much action pictures looks stunning on both format but I notice digital artifacts on CBS when there's chasing scene on CSI Miami but I don't see any on ABC during the football game.
If CSI Miami is shot on 24 FPS motion picture film its not going to look as good
as a 720P/60 video program on fast motion, even if the 720p/60 gets butchered
via the 720>1080>720 processing youre doing because the resulting signal is essentially 720P/30 with the football game, and the shutter speeds are probably faster too. CSI Miami is filmed isnt it?
MY Sharp 32" LCD is 720p native but I set my set top box to 1080i for the output.
I think if you look at the specs you'll find that the LCD is probably 768P and not 720P. This means that both HD formats are converted and usually HDTVs "prefer" a 1080i signal, especially since most broadcasters use 1080i as you mention.
CSI Miami is filmed isnt it?
Not sure, but even if it's taped, the format is 1080/24P. I think we discussed this a while back.
But if its filmed, which I think it is based on the look of it, the broadcast is shown in 1080i/60 not 1080P/24
jco
Yes, but before broadcast it's telecined to either 1080/24P or 1080/24i tape, probably the former. Either way it ends up on tape first at 24 fps. They don't broadcast films.
57U,
They dont broadcast 1080P/24 or films. My point was that if the show was shot on film, it isnt ever going to have or "show off" the motion smoothness of the true 720P format is cabable of that ABC transmits with sports for example...
