NOW I feel screwed!

[neuronbob]

I was watching HDNet this morning and they showed the CEA "Super Panel" meeting from 3/10/03, in which Jack Valenti (CEO of MPAA), Robert Sachs (NCTA), Gary Shapiro (CEA), and Jon Healey (LA Times). What I saw was very disturbing.

Valenti specifically discussed HDCP and is insisting on "closing the analog loophole" by using a broadcast flag. In other words, screwing the buyers of 5 million HD-compatible sets of the ability to watch anything other than pre-recorded material and broadcast TV, and basic cable/satellite.

When asked why the consumer electronics industry was continuing to sell analog HD-compatible sets, Shapiro said that his industry was selling the sets that people want. I just want a set that will be able to show HD programs in 5 years. Shapiro says later in the discussion that "analog set will be working for a very long time with a VCR, DVD, and video game, with prerecorded products." Yeah, but what about PPV?

Jack Valenti seems to say that the electronics manufacturers have known that HDCP was coming and was likely going to be approved for some time and should not have led consumers to buy analog sets. The industry, OTOH, seems content to screw buyers without warning us that the TVs we buy are going to be obsolete shortly.

I'm sure all this has been discussed before, but hearing this is very frustrating. I just spent $900 on a TV that will, if the MPAA gets its way, will be obsolete shortly. Further, the CEA (electronics manufacturers) don't give a s*** that there are a lot of us who spent money without knowing until after their purchase that this debate was going on. Perhaps there is a way to upgrade my analog Samsung set to accept a DVI card? I hope I'm not overreacting, but I was totally unaware of this debate until after I bought the TV.

Here's (www.ce.org/events/event_info/downloads.asp?eventID=HDTV03) the pertinent link to find the transcript. Click on "Transcript of the Industry Insider Panel" to download the .pdf of the panel discussion for your own perusal.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[57U]

Originally posted by neuronbob I hope I'm not overreacting, but I was totally unaware of this debate until after I bought the TV. 1. Anyone buying an HDTV should have been aware of this situation, as it has been known for about 18 months or more.

2. A lot of people paid a lot more than you for their HDTV.

3. This situation is not cast in stone and the outcome is not yet known. There has been a lot of conjecture on this issue, however, that's all it is - conjecture.

4. Sit back and enjoy your set. It will surely serve you well for many years to come.

5. Those 5 million other buyers will not let this situation get out of hand. As a minimum, this large a market will be a good market for someone with a "workaround" (even an illegal one).

6. The MPAA is much more concerned with recording of HD signals than they are with viewing them and that's where most of the discussion has been.

[neuronbob]

I was really unaware of the debate until after I bought the set and started looking around at home theatre sites (especially this one, which has been a great resource!! :) ). The great mass of the public is totally unaware of the issue. Salespeople just want to move TV sets and won't address the issue unless it is discussed. Believe me, my buddies who are looking to upgrade will know now, from me!

And I really feel sorry for folks who spent 1000s on their plasma....

[isando]

I just recently purchased a Hitachi 46F500. I would not have purchased it had it not had DVI/HDCP. Thanks to great message boards such as this one and a few others, I had the information necessary to make an informed decision. Joe Six-Lenses will not likely have a clue about DVI. Even today if you go into Sears, Tweeter, Best Buy or Circuit City, many of the hdtvs still do not have DVI. I dont see how the MPAA thinks it can get away with this. Hopefully it cant. But just in case, I got DVI. Wont it be delicious irony if DVI loses out to Firewire?

[akthor]

DVI? Is this the DVI connector on the back of the set that you hook a HDTV receiver to?

[57U]

Yes. (akthor, were you trying to be funny?)

[akthor]

No not at all. So if I have a DVI connector on the back of my TV I should be all set for the future?

[57U]

There are no guarantees, but you'll be more "set for the future" than those of us with component video inputs only...

There has been some discussion about DVI with HDCP & Firewire, but, let's see how this shakes out before worrying about it, now that we have our TVs.

[neuronbob]

Originally posted by isando
I just recently purchased a Hitachi 46F500. I would not have purchased it had it not had DVI/HDCP. Thanks to great message boards such as this one and a few others, I had the information necessary to make an informed decision. Joe Six-Lenses will not likely have a clue about DVI. Even today if you go into Sears, Tweeter, Best Buy or Circuit City, many of the hdtvs still do not have DVI. I dont see how the MPAA thinks it can get away with this. Hopefully it cant. But just in case, I got DVI. Wont it be delicious irony if DVI loses out to Firewire?

I am hoping the MPAA doesn't get away with this. However, as you read the transcript from the meeting, Valenti feels that the lack of "protection" will limit the amount of TV available in HD.

Sounds like the same issues people had with VCRs, and that certainly didn't lead to a decrease in sales...

And akthor, you should be set for the immediate future with your DVI port, as long as it supports HDMI (some don't if my readings are correct).

[akthor]

Thanks guys.

[mhdiab]

So do you guys think that this is why Toshiba is selling theirs DVI compatible, but actually not able to provide the DVI "adapter". What I am saying is they know that it isn't needed yet and haven't fully closed the design on the DVI "adapter" (correct term?) because they don't know how it will be finalized?

If this is the case then that is great and a good move by Toshiba not to produce something and then 2 years down the road be like - sorry you bought the wrong one

Or will the Toshiba as well be screwed if it goes with HDCP & Firewire????

Thanks

[57U]

This is the reason that Mits developed the "promise module" and Toshiba the "DVI compatible/upgradable" sets.

[neuronbob]

Originally posted by 57U
This is the reason that Mits developed the "promise module" and Toshiba the "DVI compatible/upgradable" sets.

Would've been nice if all the manufacturers would've done that. As you can tell, I ended up with a Samsung, primarily because of the picture quality and nearly perfect size for my living space. They are releasing DVI-compatible TVs this summer. It is doubtful they have allowed for upgradeability in their current TV line--you get what you pay for, I guess! (Lesson learned)

[57U]

Originally posted by neuronbob ...you get what you pay for, I guess! Exactly, but hey, a "promise module" costs more than your entire TV. Enjoy your TV - it'll be fine for years to come and you can buy a plasma with the money you saved in 5 years...

[neuronbob]

Originally posted by 57U
Enjoy your TV - it'll be fine for years to come and you can buy a plasma with the money you saved in 5 years...

:) I'm already enjoying the TV--it's a load of fun trying to find HD programming, actually! And you're absolutely right. I'll be able to buy a plasma with Firewire and HDCP in 5 years, I'm sure.

[mhdiab]

When I was looking for my TV I went to Sears to see what they were offering and what they said - the sales guy in there was like " you won't need DVI for at least 8-10 years so don't worry about it for either your TV or DVD" - Now would have been fun to see if he would have given me that in writing....:)

I went with DVI compatible, didn't realize that the technology isn't worked out and all and guess it might be a lucky move, but if not then probably won't notice for a long time. There is no way the consumer groups will allow for all the people that bought HD tv's to be screwed within a 5 year time frame. The thing is that people have bought tv's that are HD ready without knowing it or intending to use it, but in 2 years the headline in the media would be
"15 million consumers robbed on their investment"
It doesnt' matter if that is how it happened or not, the outcry at that point when HD is getting normal will force the cable networks and broadcasters to a gradual transition. Again my opinion based on how the market usually works.