Cheap (and good) conponent cables

[Surf40]

A friend of mine is an Electronics Engineer in the HDTV division of Sony. He turned me on to some good, cheap component cables. He said he had these cables tested in the Sony lab by the RF engineers, and they said these were as good as any $100 cables they had seen. I bought a pair, they work great. They cost me about $15.00 for a 12 ft set of Component and audio (5 cables).

BTW, I do not work at this place, and get no kick back, I just thought I’d pass it along.

http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/componentvideo.htm

Danny

[mikehbkwm]

Surf40 thanks for the info.. any information on a cheaper cable that has good build quality is always a good thing to hear.....

[hawks066]

"Premium Grade 3 RCA (Video) + 2 RCA (Audio), 6 ft "

These are what we Comcast Technicians use for HD Digital Box installs.. They are great cables, and very thick (probably as thick as monster cable sells). I wouldn't touch monster cable when you can get these for 11 bucks.

[leadvocal]

"Premium Grade 3 RCA (Video) + 2 RCA (Audio), 6 ft "
These are what we Comcast Technicians use for HD Digital Box installs..

This isn't what the Comcast Tech used when my box was installed back in March. Maybe they've upgraded since then. You should see the "el cheapos" they used.

[hawks066]

Well we use them in the MA, NH, and ME markets anyway.

[matt8085]

I have comcast digital cable with HD in New Hampshire. Not only did they use premium cables for HD, they ran a new feed into my house from the pole outside, in the pouring rain. So far comcast has been living up to their advertisements. I just wish they had more channels in HD. Like CBS, so I can watch the Patriots. And discovery.

[nuke61]

Cool, that's a great tip for a cable supplier. Thanks, and say thanks to your buddy who works for Sony :)

[paulszpet]

Thank you surf40. I have purchased two pairs of component/audio (combination) cables from this company and am extremely pleased with them. They are every bit as good as the pair of monster video cables that I have as a reference and you certainly can't beat the price. Excellent build quality and very good looking cables.

[mikehbkwm]

bought myself a pair and am also pleased... very good build quality....

[spaceman_spiff]

Originally posted by leadvocal
This isn't what the Comcast Tech used when my box was installed back in March. Maybe they've upgraded since then. You should see the "el cheapos" they used.

My El Cheapos that comcast supplied was comparable or worse than the a/v cables that came with the DVD player, very thin, much like a digital cable.

[IPAonTAP]

Has anyone purchased optical cables from here? If so were they also of good quality?

[hawks066]

spaceist... Are they component cables? red, Green, Blue, Red, and White? Or did the tech actually use RCA cables?

[spaceman_spiff]

They are component video cables, red, blue & green RCA end cables. The tech had different cheap set for analog audio cables.

[SephirothX]

Have you people ever wondered why cheap cables are cheap in the first place? They may look good but they sure don't sound good or produce decent picture. Compare them with other more expensive cables and see for yourself.

[nuke61]

Originally posted by SephirothX
Have you people ever wondered why cheap cables are cheap in the first place? They may look good but they sure don't sound good or produce decent picture. Compare them with other more expensive cables and see for yourself.

Hopefully you're not referring to the cables that Surf40 posted about, since he did say that his friend, who's an EE at Sony tested them tested by other Sony Engineers, and they did as well as any $100 cables they had seen.

[DoubleDAZ]

Originally posted by nuke61
Hopefully you're not referring to the cables that Surf40 posted about, since he did say that his friend, who's an EE at Sony tested them tested by other Sony Engineers, and they did as well as any $100 cables they had seen.
I hope that's a rhetorical question because, if it's not, I'm afraid you may not like the answer. :)

[nuke61]

It's not at all a rhetorical question.

[SephirothX]

What kind of proof is that? Sony claims that their cables are better than other brand cables!? Is he supposed to say that their own cables suck big time?

[DoubleDAZ]

Originally posted by SephirothX
What kind of proof is that? Sony claims that their cables are better than other brand cables!? Is he supposed to say that their own cables suck big time?
nuke61. What did I tell you? :)

[pradike]

We could all debate this for years...but there are a few realities when it comes to cables:

1) What they look like means little.
2) Who the manufacturer is means little (unless you like to pay more because of advertising - like Monster Cable).
3) Cables ARE an important piece of the HDTV and Surround Sound puzzle. Don't underestimate their importance.
4) There are MANY makers of quality cables.

I tended to be one of the un-informed in the past, thinking a cable is a cable, and the cheaper the better. I have since learned that the words cheap and good never belong in the same sentence when it comes to cables.

The bottom line is that you should do some reasonable homework before you buy ANY cables in a Home Theater (including pre-wiring cable). After spending your hard earned $$$ on TV's, projectors, amplifiers, DVD players, and speakers.....it seems pretty lame to connect everything with Radio Shack spool wire.

I share the pain of the idea of spending more than $19.95 at Best Buy for audio or video cables....that said, I have learned there ARE differences in quality and durability, as well as performance. I recently bought some component cables for $120 - yes, that was alot, but darn well worth it in terms of how they're constructed and the audio performance. Trust me, I could have spent 3 to 5 times as much.

My advice - get the best cables you can afford (based on homework, not marketing hype) - it should be the last time you'll have to get them, and they'll give you many years of good performance.

[nuke61]

Originally posted by SephirothX
What kind of proof is that? Sony claims that their cables are better than other brand cables!? Is he supposed to say that their own cables suck big time?

If you think Surf40 is lying and actually DOES work for the company, just come out and say it. Call him a liar.

Pradike, the whole "homework" issue is tough because it seems that everyone who plunks down the money for $100+ cables swears up and down that they can tell the difference, yet I have been able to find even ONE blind test that concludes that high dollar cables provide for more accurate sonic or picture differences, while I've read of several single-blind tests where most people can indeed tell the difference between speaker brands quite easily.

Here's an ABX test that showed no difference between 16ga zip cord and high buck speaker wire:
http://www.pcavtech.com/abx/abx_wire.htm

Another, from Sound & Vision Contractor
http://www.svconline.com/ar/avinstall_designer_cables_critical/

See page 4 of this article:
http://www.aes.org/sections/la/meetingnotices/2001-07.pdf

[pradike]

Nuke61:

Your point about the "blind tests" is well taken. I suspect that the cost to test hundreds of brands of cabling is neither cost-effective nor beneficial to any one manufacturer, so it probably isn't a common thing. That said, I noticed that the studies you cite are from 1998-2001, and very limited in scope.

If you actually SEE and HANDLE various cables, not to mention HEAR them connected to QUALITY audio equipment, you CAN clearly tell the difference. In addition, most of the specialty publications, such as Audiophile, have shown that there are various important difference in cabling. Some of the higher end speaker manufacturers place cautions in their documentation against the use of "inferior" cables.

While cost DOES NOT assure QUALITY (contrary to Monster Cable advertising), cables with quality connectors, well-shielded construction, and solid-core composition for bandwidth tend to show higher performance and durability (and cost more, on the whole).

I recently spent several days with a "audio nut", who has over $50,000 invested in a 2-channel system with tower speakers (hard to believe, but that's what he's seriously into). He played several DVD-Audios SACDs for me, using 4 different cables, and asked me to tell him which ones were the 2 "cheap" ones. They were in not in any order.

The sound was incredible and "live" sounding. To my amazement, I picked the correct 2 "cheap" cables.

Upon physical inspection, he showed them all to me, and I could also SEE the difference in quality - better connectors, better shielding, etc.

He also told me the following:

There are basically 3 tiers of interconnect cabling on the market (his brother has worked for 2 companies in this industry):

1) Cheap stuff - it tends to look like it
2) Mid-range cable ($50 - $150)
3) Top dollar cable ($200 +).

To my surprise, he said while HE could tell the difference of all 3, most people could not tell the difference between the 2nd & 3rd types.

The lesson - don't go cheap, but you don't have to spend an arm & a leg either.

[hawks066]

I have used those rca cables and monster cables from a customer in his home to compare picture quality.. There is no difference that either of us could see. He opted to go with those, and take back the $50 monster cable.

Go see for yourself, take your rip off, priced to high monster cable's and order some of those cables on this thread.. See for yourself, no difference and 50 bucks cheaper. Your buying a name with monster cable.

[nuke61]

I suspect that the cost to test hundreds of brands of cabling is neither cost-effective nor beneficial to any one manufacturer, so it probably isn't a common thing.

It's particularly not beneficial if the blind tests show that there's no difference between SuperDuperSpeakerWire(tm) and 16ga zip cord :)

That said, I noticed that the studies you cite are from 1998-2001, and very limited in scope.

They are limited in scope, yet still relavant, unless our hearing has somehow changed in just a few years :)

There are video tests as well... the link to all the tests is here:
http://www.pcavtech.com/abx/abx_data.htm

As you'll see, there was clearly a difference based on long lengths of cabling, so that's where a better quality/larger gauge cable might actually make a difference.

There was a discussion along these lines on a local HDTV site (www.hdtv.forsandiego.com) a while ago and one of the frequenters is an engineer at a local television station. If I remember correctly, he said they make up all their video cables using quality Belden cable and quality inter-connects. It's not cheap, but not expensive either. Quality cable, quality inter-connects, quality solder joints. Anything more is marketing hype.


Some of the higher end speaker manufacturers place cautions in their documentation against the use of "inferior" cables.

Well sure, but nobody is going to suggest that you use inferior cables. The question is all about the line where it makes no difference.

Although I am of the opinion that for speakers, 16 gauge zip cord is all you need, I am not suggesting that anyone use the cheapest *video* cables that they can get. With the cheapest cables, wire gauge is typically smaller, solder joints are spotty or just down right horrible, the shield is minimal, and the covering is poor.

Upon physical inspection, he showed them all to me, and I could also SEE the difference in quality - better connectors, better shielding, etc.

If you could see a physical difference, it's not surprising you could hear the difference, particularly as the cable length increases. Too bad you couldn't test him on his claim to be able to tell the difference between the mid-priced and high-buck stuff.

As the previous linked articles showed, when Tom Nousaine performed blind tests, the abilities of those with super-hearing would mysteriously fail them :)

[pradike]

[i]Originally posted by nuke61
There was a discussion along these lines on a local HDTV site (www.hdtv.forsandiego.com) a while ago and one of the frequenters is an engineer at a local television station. If I remember correctly, he said they make up all their video cables using quality Belden cable and quality inter-connects. It's not cheap, but not expensive either. Quality cable, quality inter-connects, quality solder joints.

If you could see a physical difference, it's not surprising you could hear the difference, particularly as the cable length increases. Too bad you couldn't test him on his claim to be able to tell the difference between the mid-priced and high-buck stuff.
You clearly missed the whole point about the cable test -- it WAS a BLIND TEST.

If YOU can't hear or see the difference in cabling, I suggest YOU don't spend another dime on anything beyond YOUR "zip wire". If YOU"RE convinced it's fine by YOUR standards - I say go for it. Heck, who needs color TV anyway, when the old B&W does just as well! Hey, somebody's gotta shop at K-mart right?

If you don't see that studies that exclude impedance tests, bandwidth throughput, reflective shielding harmonics, and metallic decomposition are irrelevant, oh well....But for those of us who CAN HEAR and SEE the difference...we'll enjoy the better sound and video by using something a little bit better than coathanger wire.

Hawk066 - I agree with your earlier post that Monster cables are a rip off. You can do much better for the same or less money - most folks in the audio/video business will tell you the same thing. One guy at a local place told me that about 35 cents on the dollar for their products subsidized their marketing.

Surf40 - Thanks for your original thread post, showing that sometimes you can find a moderate-priced product (as opposed to CHEAP) which can satisfy one's needs. Despite others on this board who failed to appreciate your sincere effort to share info, and posted lame comments about your "affilation" with Sony, most of us got past those remarks. Thanks.

[nuke61]

You clearly missed the whole point about the cable test -- it WAS a BLIND TEST.

No, I didn't miss the point about the results of your cable test, or that it was a blind test.

You were able to tell which cable was which (in a blind test) -- however, you also said that there were obvious differences in quality. My point is, given those visible differences, is it suprising that you could tell the difference in a blind test?

Did you miss the part where I talked about using quality cables (Belden) and quality interconnects? You don't find that on $10 cable. Blue Jeans cables and Ram Electronics are among those that sell Belden based cabling. It's not $20, but it's not $250 either.


Hey, somebody's gotta shop at K-mart right?

My, my, did I strike a nerve so deep that you have to resort to the imlied attack that I shop at Kmart ? :D

Gosh, my vision and hearing are so horrible that I should have just skipped purchasing my Denon reciever, Paradigm speakers, Sony RPTV, and not bothered to go into the service menu to fix Red Push using Avia. :)

[pradike]

[i]Originally posted by nuke61
Did you miss the part where I talked about using quality cables (Belden) and quality interconnects? You don't find that on $10 cable. Blue Jeans cables and Ram Electronics are among those that sell Belden based cabling. It's not $20, but it's not $250 either.

Gosh, my vision and hearing are so horrible that I should have just skipped purchasing my Denon reciever, Paradigm speakers, Sony RPTV, and not bothered to go into the service menu to fix Red Push using Avia. :) [/B]
Part 1 - So in the first part you're really saying the same thing I was. OK.

Nice equipment list! I was going to ask you if you knew how to turn on your equipment, but I won't (Meant as a joke!)

Seriously though - You seemed to flame poor Surf40 for making a sincere effort to share useful info (Sony reference) . He had also inquired about how to determine the differences in cabling, not just price differences. Several people tried to respond.

I guess we're on the same page that "buyer beware" is the best advice in buying cables, and don't get hung up on either the Monster Cable-type hype or high-priced salesman hype. I condone neither, and I don't think you do.

I guess what this really shows is that more legitimate data and comparisons need to be published by someone other than magaxzines who thrive on ads from the same folks who make the cables.

[nuke61]

Yes, we really were and are saying the same thing... that's why I found the whole exchange so amusing. It's quite amazing how easy it is to be misunderstood when just using the written word :)

I have a set of Ram Electronics component cables, a pair of PartsExpress component cables, and a pair that were installed by Cox Communications with the HD STB -- the Cox set looks similar to the cable at the Surf40 recommended CableWholesale place, seen here:
http://www.national-tech.com/specs/10v2-02510.htm

About flaming Surf40 - I don't know how you got that impression, but if that's how my replies came across, I screwed up.

On the first page of this thread I said, "Cool, that's a great tip for a cable supplier. Thanks, and say thanks to your buddy who works for Sony :)" and that was sincere. It looked to me like SephirothX was implying that Surf40 was lying, so I suggested that he just come right out and say it if that's what he thought.

That's the bottom line for me on this subject... Surf40 posted what looks like a good source of relatively inexpensive, yet good quality stuff.

You're pretty close about the "turning on the power" joke... I've almost forgotten how to switch my equipment because of the macro's I've programmed into my 8810 remote :)

[pradike]

Glad you caught that....I've got a NASA-calibre remote too...and when I saw your inventory, I knew you had to have a power remote as well to control that arsenal of equipment!

I find it funny sometimes that in some ways, we're all going through the same cycle as when cable TV was new (in the beginning) - complicated connections....OTA antennas, new & complex remotes, marginal support, frustrated users, high costs of hardware. (I can still remember when "cable-ready" TVs were $150 higher in cost than others (the olden days)!

The posts from SephirothX have been a whole other thing....not on the same frequency as the rest of us....

Just for the record...I'm running AudioQuest Type 4 cable in my Theater, with a combination of component cables, including Kimber & Cardas - not the most expensive, but quality stuff. I made the decision that I didn't want to rip out wire in the walls later, nor did I want to sacrifice the most money....seemed like a good compromise.

[Goddahavit]

ok paradike if these cables are not up to specs, where can I find some reviews or comparisons?

I think I may have a problem with the cables I am using, and I am looking to upgrade, any suggestions?

thanks, goddahavit.

[pradike]

Here are some sources for good info on cables:

Home Theater Magazine Cable Guide (http://www.hometheatermag.com/cables/)

Speaker wire and other cable info (http://www.hometheatermag.com/custominstallation/124/)

Cable requirement info (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=246&page_number=1)

[fruno.damage]

Originally posted by hawks066
I have used those rca cables and monster cables from a customer in his home to compare picture quality.. There is no difference that either of us could see. He opted to go with those, and take back the $50 monster cable.

Go see for yourself, take your rip off, priced to high monster cable's and order some of those cables on this thread.. See for yourself, no difference and 50 bucks cheaper. Your buying a name with monster cable.


And so, this is one of THE most important things that I have found when it comes to cables (audio or video):

If you can't see or hear the difference then what is the point of getting the fancy, high-priced cables in the 1st place.