FCC "flag"-- do we have to buy new int. TVs?

[feverish]

Now that the FCC has legislated the broadcast flag, do those of us with integrated tuners have to buy new TVs now?

I found very little technical info in the news articles, of course.

Leave it to the FCC to make the adoption of digital television more difficult and confusing than it already is!

[satanami69]

No, you won't have to buy a new TV. All the FCC mandates is that in 2005, any new STB, VCR, or TV Tuner must recognize and suppress the content by following what the broadcast flags says is allowable to copy. The flag is:
000 Total Freedom
001 1 week
010 2 Days
011 1 Day
100 12 Hours
101 6 Hours
110 3 Hours
111 90 Minutes

The flag is not part of the digital content. If a stb, much like the one you have now, chooses to ignore the flag, then the content will still be able to play, be recorded, etc. The FCC is making it a law that any new box must follow what the MPAA sets, and then apply DRM to it.

So, how will normal consumers react? We'll see. I think that if people are not going to have the same freedoms to copy broadcasts sent over the air(again this doesn't affect cable or sat), then they won't bother spending money to adopt a digital standard.

How hard will it be to ignore this? Well, DVD players in America are only supposed to play region 1 DVDs. Are there region free DVD player for sale, sure are.

The FCC is making it illegal for corporations to essentially make a region free Digital STB.

It's easy to not get angry about this, when you remember that the push to all digital broadcast was not meant to give me a cleaner, clearer picutre. It was meant so the FCC could sell the analog spectrum to wireless carriers and make hundreds of billions of dollars. I just happen to get MNF in HD

[namechamps]

The FCC has proposed ruling available:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf

Essentially OTA will never been encrypted, scrambled or protected by broadcast flag. Since your internal tuner is likely an OTA tuner you are ok. As is anyone using an external OTA.

FCC proposal gives content providers (cable + sat) right to encrypt and protect any non broadcast channel (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, WB, UPN).

FCC proposal gives content providers right to disabled compromised systems.

FCC proposal gives content providers right to downgrade analog out. Many people believe this won't happen but read section #60

[quote]As to the issue of analog outputs, we anticipate that alternative mechanisms such as retirement and the potential use of down-resolution could more effectively address content providers’ concerns without entirely foreclosing functionalities available to early adopters.[quote]

REMEMBER OTA WILL ALWAYS BE PROTECTED FROM ENCRYPTION, BROADCAST FLAGS, AND DOWNGRADING.

Likely these changes will occur without your notice or consent. One day you turn on your STB box and it recieves a firmware update from your provider (cable or sat). Then BLAMO analog output is downgraded to 480p and DVI connection will be only true HD.

Two points to anyone planning on buying or upgrading HD system.

1) BUY TV with DVI connection. In future it is likely that analog will be downgraded because it can't be protected.

2) BUY STB wtih DVI + firewire. (Haven't seen any yet) but most likely you will need DVI for point #1. You will likely need firewire for HD PVR.

[sillygoose]

The problem with the broadcast flag is not the flag itself or any effect it will have on tuners (mostly none). It is the insidious effect it will have on all of you existing electronics. For instance if you buy a DVD recorder in 2005 any content it records that had a broadcast flag will be unplayable on all existing DVD players. So if you buy any new recording devices after 2005 plan on replacing all playback devices as well or they won't work.

[namechamps]

My interpertation is that broadcast flag and encryption is only for HD signal. No current DVD recorder/player can play back a 720p or 1080i format stream.

Current DVD recorder/players hold aprox 4700MB of storage. Since HD is aprox 9MB/sec that means a normal DVD-R can hold about 8 min of HD programming. So even if a DVD player could play HD it could only hold 8min of content..

Any future HD-DVD player would likely use another medium (blue light recording most likely). So broadcast flag or not you wont be able to play HD-DVD (or whatever they call it) in a DVD player. Just like you cant play a DVD in a CD player.

[sillygoose]

The FCC doesn't really have any direct control of HD specifically because their mandates have only dictated a requirement for a digital signal not an HD signal (not to say they can't dictate anything about HD just that they haven't chosen to yet). While today's DVD format isn't HD I can record HD programs today and downconvert them to widescreen 480i and replay that on any player out there. Or I can record a HD program as plain data spanned across several DVDs or any large storage device and play that back on any computer I take it to. None of this will work after 2005 without replacing all the hardware and software involved. Worse the choice of hardware and software to replace it with will be limited.

[namechamps]

Originally posted by sillygoose
[B]While today's DVD format isn't HD I can record HD programs today and downconvert them to widescreen 480i and replay that on any player out there.

You can still do that in 2005. Use analog connection (component, or S video) which will be downconverted to 480i or 480p. FCC has ruled analog outputs will NOT be blocked so you can still record with a conventional DVD player (although it won't be HD).

Or I can record a HD program as plain data spanned across several DVDs or any large storage device and play that back on any computer I take it to.
Only way I know to do this right now is with a PCI OTA reciever. OTA will not be protected by flags so it will work fine in 2005 and 2025.

None of this will work after 2005 without replacing all the hardware and software involved. Worse the choice of hardware and software to replace it with will be limited.

Can you name the model# of the hardware you have NOW that can record cable or sat HD and won't be able to in 2005? All D-VHS decks connected by firewire should work fine in 2005. HD downconverted to 480i/p to a DVD-R should work fine. Even OTA PCI card recording to a computer hard drive should work fine.

If anything the problem is ReplayTV HD, standalone TivoHD, HD-DVD, blueray HD, and other devices will likely be delayed until the broadcast protection system is finalized and implemented to ensure compatibility.

[sillygoose]

Originally posted by namechamps
You can still do that in 2005. Use analog connection (component, or S video) which will be downconverted to 480i or 480p. FCC has ruled analog outputs will NOT be blocked so you can still record with a conventional DVD player (although it won't be HD).

Why would I want to use an analog connection. I know that existing devices will still work in the future. The problem is the new devices aren't going to work with any existing ones. If I wait and get some kind of disk burner in the future it will not be allowed to make DVDs. I'm sure it will make wonderful HD disks that will play on HD disk players but shouldn't I also be able to make DVD-video disks just like many DVD burners today also make CDs.


Only way I know to do this right now is with a PCI OTA reciever. OTA will not be protected by flags so it will work fine in 2005 and 2025.

Right and that is as far a PCI recording devices will be able to go until they device a way to lock the user's out of their own computers.

If anything the problem is ReplayTV HD, standalone TivoHD, HD-DVD, blueray HD, and other devices will likely be delayed until the broadcast protection system is finalized and implemented to ensure compatibility.

Yep and I'm sure they'll come up with a nice little consortium of companies that can make these devices.