View Full Version : Stretch modes revisited.
Hippie
11-15-2003, 11:32 PM
I know we have been down this path many times.
I have read all the FAQ's, been to a dozen web sites but still am having a bit of trouble on correct stretch mode settings when it comes to SD television programs and the HD compatible STB.
I know, anamorphic DVD's = FULL
SD TV programs noramally = TheaterWide 1
BUT: what if the STB does stretching itself?
I will elaborate:
1080i is HD... There is no picture zooming, stretching etc... because by definition HDTV is 1.78:1 (16x9)
SO.. for HD channels (HBOHD, SHOHD, MSGHD, FSNYHD, CBSHD, ThirteenHD..) (FoxD is left out because it ain't HD)
Set the cable box on 1080i... TV stretch means nothing, cable box stretch means nothing.... Simple..
NOW.. for Standard Def channels (SD) under the cable box quick setting menu.
If we set the box to 480p WIDE setting and Picture Size to STRETCH the picture fills the screen. (This stretch I assume is an Anamorphic Stretch correct?)
If yes.. Then I would think that the TV's Theater Mode should be set to FULL...
Reason being, if it was an anamorphic DVD you set it to FULL because the stretching has been done already.
Now back to SD program viewing, by having the 480p WIDE / STRETCH setting on the cable box, the signal going TO the TV would be the same as if it were coming from an anamorphic DVD right? Therefore my thought that the TV should be always left on FULL unless you are viewing a NON-anamorphic DVD..
Sorry 'bout the long post, but then again, I am learning from the best!!!!!
(AIN'T THAT RIGHT LEE :D )
1. There's no such thing as an anamorphic stretch. There are "enhanced for widescreen" (anamorphic) DVDs, which need to be stretched using "full".
2. There are unenhanced DVDs or widescreen SD programmes which need to be stretched by a factor of 1.33 horizontally and 1.33 vertically (whatever that stretch is called on your TV - TW2 I think) to "fill" a 16:9 TV.
3. If your STB stretches a 4:3 SD image (horizontally), would you not leave your TV in "natural" so that no further stretching is done by the TV?
Do an experiment, if you set your STB to stretch the 4:3 image, by changing between "natural" and "full" does the full do a further stretch, making everyone fat and losing the sides of the picture?
Some STBs do not have stretch modes, so others reading this thread may still need to use TW1 or 3 for 4:3 programming. Also, the stretch done by the STB may not be as good as TW1 or 3, since it may simply be a linear horizontal stretch - can you confirm whether this last remark is correct?.
Hippie
11-16-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by 57U
it may simply be a linear horizontal stretch - can you confirm whether this last remark is correct?.
It appears to me that the STB stretch is just that, a horizontal stretch, and zoom does both horizontal and Vertical.
Below is what i get... I guess just call me dense...
TV Normal, STB 480pWide/Normal = Tall thin people,double SIDE bars inside dark grey (from STB), Outer Light grey (from TV) , top and bottom are not cropped...
TV Normal, STB 480pWide/Stretch = Inner side bars gone/outer sidebars still there. Top & bottom not cropped
TV Normal, STB 480pWide/Zoom = Inner side bars gone / outer’s still there, top & bottom IS cropped
TV Full, STB 480pWide/Normal = Side bars (from STB) , Top & bottom not cropped
TV Full, STB 480pWide/Stretch = fills screen / no side bars, top & bottom not cropped
TV Full, STB 480pWide/Zoom = fills screen / no side bars, Top & bottom cropped.
TV TW1, STB 480pWide/Normal = Side bars (from STB),Top & Bottom slightly cropped (not as much as above)
TV TW1, STB 480pWide/Stretch = No side bars / top & bottom slightly cropped
TV TW1, STB 480pWide/Stretch = No side bars, Top & bottom cropped more than any TW1 combo
Which is why I was thinking TV Full / STB 480pWide/Stretch was the right way to go..
Oh well.. I give up... Didn't think watching TV should be such hard work....:rolleyes:
Can you go through that again for the 480i setting?;)
I believe what you've said above, I find it "odd" that the STB does a "sqeeeze" of 4:3 material (on STB normal") and then you have to stretch it again with the TV.
Hippie
11-16-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by 57U
Can you go through that again for the 480i setting?;)
Sure.. coming right up....
NOT!
I honestly do wonder whether you'd have the same outcome at 480i. You could just check the one setting (both TV & STB normal) to see if you still get the double bars and squeezed people.
Hippie
11-16-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by 57U
I honestly do wonder whether you'd have the same outcome at 480i. You could just check the one setting (both TV & STB normal) to see if you still get the double bars and squeezed people.
Thought you were busting my chops....
at 480i.. it is all the same except the picture looks a bit noisy to me...
There is also a 480p/STD setting.. do I need to go through those too?
during the setup of the box (the one cablevision doesn't tell you about) I had to specify my tv as 16:9 or 4:3...
This is why I originally thought the picture was being compensated somehow... The user manuals tell you nothing about this stuff... I have already checked a dozen times.
Hippie
11-16-2003, 01:19 AM
Well here it is:
TV NORMAL, STB 480pSTD/Normal, stretch and zoom all the same side bars only.. (STB's norm, stretch, zoom have no effect)
TV Normal = Side Bars.
Full = fills screen
TW1 = fills screen but seems to chop the top and bottom a bit.
Ah, that's why you get the squeeze. If you had left it at 4:3, then you wouldn't need the "double stretch". I think you should consider putting it back and do a single stretch (TV or STB)... You may have better PQ.
(unless that screws you up elsewhere)
(AIN'T THAT RIGHT LEE :) )
Nothing wrong with long posts! :rolleyes:
57U is the King of Stretch, I wouldn't dream of jumping into the middle of that. I get a headache just thinking about it. :)
Lee
Hippie
11-16-2003, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by LeeS
Nothing wrong with long posts! :rolleyes:
I get a headache just thinking about it. :)
Lee
I'll second that....
I see you have a Tosh. TV... what do you do with your stretch modes in combo w/ your STB?
I see you have a Tosh. TV... what do you do with your stretch modes in combo w/ your STB?
Anamorphic DVD = Full; non-anamorphic DVD = TW2; all my SD viewing = TW1.
I don't have a sat HD box yet, just standard Dish SD box. I let the TV do the stretching.
My OTA box is set to 16:9 also and set to let the TV do the stretching. I don't watch any non-HD on the OTA box so stretching is not a factor. WHEN we finally get our new Dish HD boxes I will be able to comment more.
Starting to get that headache :)
Lee
Hippie
11-16-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by LeeS
Starting to get that headache :)
Lee
Hey.. it's 2am here in N.J... wonder what other things I could mess around w/ on the TV while viewing the normal barrage of late night infomercials..
Suzanne Sommers Thigh master in stunning DTS surround!
Here that WOOSH!!! WOOSH!! w/ each crunch she does...
TVHead
11-22-2003, 06:34 PM
Hello Guys,
I am brand new to this site and would like to Thank you all for your great information that you have shared. I have a similar question to "Hippie". I just got Cablevision's IO/Silver installed today on my Toshiba 57HDX82 . While I am blown away by HDTV (spent the better part of gorgeous weather today watching the PBS HD loop) I am slightly disappointed that I can no longer control my stretch modes, which my TV did very well. I know the SA 4200 can handle it (I just went through the setup) but I would much rather control it myself through the TV.
If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it.
Thank You again, hope to hear from someone.
If you want to use the TV's stretch modes for SD channels, you can connect an S-video cable to another input. I believe yours is also one of the few TVs that can stretch HD signals via Component Video Cables, but they have to be 1080i, not 720P.
See the FAQ on "Cables & Connections".
Hippie
11-23-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by TVHead
Hello Guys,
I know the SA 4200 can handle it (I just went through the setup) but I would much rather control it myself through the TV.
If anyone has any suggestions I would really appreciate it.
Thank You again, hope to hear from someone.
Hi TV....
Welcome to the forum... Lot of good info here.
I am still playing around with what looks best stretch wise with the SA4200HD box and my Tosh. 16:9 set.....
57U had a suggestion which I have been playing around with.
I went back into the setup wizard and entered in that I have a 4:3 tv instead a 16:9 one...
HD (1080i) will always fill the screen.
SD programming you will be able to use your TV's stretch modes. (pic. size TW1)
FOX Widesceen (pic. size FULL)
You will still have to go into the cable setup to choose 1080i, 480i/p STD or for FOX 480i/p WIDE.
Will keep ya posted if I ever figure this out..
TVHead
11-23-2003, 10:43 PM
Thanks Hippie,
That seems to work for me, I can live with that. I now can control SD programs with my Toshiba remote. Again, another beautiful day in NJ and I was glued to the TV. Football in HD is really awesome.
Thank You again for your help.
TVHead
TVHead
11-25-2003, 07:48 PM
Thanks to you, also 57U. Your suggestions were excellent.
