Receiving HDTV Signals on Standard TV

[DrewB]

Incredibly basic questions:

1. I have a great (but standard) Sony Wega 32" TV. It has inputs for S-video and component video. Can I use an HDTV set top box with it to receive local channels? (I know, I know--it's not true high-def, but it's gotta be a MAJOR upgrade to crappy analog cable.)

2. Do typical set top boxes even HAVE outputs in S-video and/or component video? If so, I'm assuming that HDTV signals carrying 4:3 material will display as 4:3 on my 4:3 TV set, and any 16:9 stuff will be letterboxed. Correct?

3. What am I missing here? I can spend about $300 for an HDTV set top box, hook it up, and have great local channels. Right? Or am I nuts?

Drew



"There are no stupid questions; only stupid people who ask those questions."

[Ratman]

You're nuts!

Unless your TV is capable of 780P or 1080I, you will not get HDTV.

The only exception is that if your TV's component input does 480P and you find an STB that outputs (downconverts) 480P, you may get a little better picture. But that will depend on the input signal (OTA, Cable, satellite) and a real digital signal.

[DrewB]

I realize that standard TVs don't accept those types of connections, and as you say, cannot receive real high-def reception. But are there any set-top boxes that DO have S-Video and/or component video outputs? Those are all the same, aren't they? I mean, if an HDTV STB has an S-Video output or component video outputs, then why WOULDN'T it work?

I understand that in order to receive 1080i or 780p, you need a real high-def monitor with connections that are specifically designed for HDTV. What I want is a way to receive those digital signals and connect them via standard S-video or component connections.

I know the signal will have been downconverted at that point, but again, it still has to be better than my current crappy cable reception.

Bottom line: My cable company charges me $14 a month for interference-laden analog locals. Since all the stations in my market broadcast in high-def, is there any conceivable way to receive those signals on a standard TV?

Drew

[DrewB]

Here's what I'm talking about:

http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-16332-405-6150468.html?tag=rev-rev

Am I still nuts?

[57U]

OK, here goes.

1. Some set-top boxes will only send out 1080i when they receive HD programming. A non-HDTV will not provide you with a picture from this signal, only HDTV-ready sets will.

2. High definition signals can only be sent by component video cables (or DVI or Firewire), not S-Video, or composite video. There is no "downconversion" to these connections.

3. Some set-top boxes "pass through" the original High Def signal. Fox sends 480P, ABC sends 720P and the rest 1080i. The only signal your set may see under these "rare" circumstances are the 480P.

4. The standard definition set-top boxes usually have S-video outputs. All of the "standard (non-HD)" digital and analogue stations can therefore go from this set-top box to your TV. This may provide you with a better picture than what you are getting now directly into the TV - it could also be worse.

5. The only way to view HDTV is with an HDTV or an HDTV-ready set. Standard Analogue TVs will not display High Definition signals.

6. The component video connection on the TV would be good to use for a DVD player that has component video output. This will maximize the resolution of the DVD player signal.

7. Interestingly, many HD set-top boxes actually give a "worse" signal via the component video cables, than with the S-Video connection when transmitting standard definition signals. This is a known issue and has been discussed in this and other forums.

8. There is not much "special programming" that is only available in High Def. The HD programming is usually also shown on the affiliates' standard definition broadcasts, so you are not missing anything. The only time I've seen a difference was with the Winter olympics, when the HD programming was actually different than the NBC feed, but it was also typically delayed by a day....

No way around it - if you want to see high def, you need a high def set.

[kevinw]

Here is another answer..If the set top box is able to switch to a 480i output then you can receive a digital signal. Yes it would be better than cable. I watch non-HD programming OTA with my STB switched to 480i, The picture is much beter. Since I have cable I do not know how this compares to a signal from Dish or Direct. Personally I think it is a waste of money to buy a STB and not use it for HD reception. I also think it is a waste of money to buy a television that is not HD ready.

[newtohdtv]

PS:

You're still nuts.

hehehehe

Just kidding

n2hdtv

[zarlor]

All I can add to this thread is that I would check to see if there is a STB out there that will send 480p out the component output.

Otherwise I do know that you CAN watch the HD signal from an RCA DTC-100 downconverted to 480i through the S-Video connector. The picture looks fabulous considering it is a downconverted. Definitely first rate and that might be a way to watch some of the HD programming available now, without and HD set. Besides, the STB is cheaper than a full set and could be an acceptable first step towards getting a full-HD setup.

So I don't think he's nuts. ;)

[Ratman]

Thank you...
Now... I would save my $400 plus dollars on an STB, sell my TV privately and take that money and but an HDTV! Done deal!

[ragazzo]

DrewB, I think I do *exactly* what you want to replicate.

My local AT&T Broadband carries local channels 4,5,7,9,11,13 on their assigned channels, even though I'm a mile from either of the two antenna farms these broadcast from, so I get a *horrible* picture on those six channels. AT&T refuse to replace the drop-cable into my apartment with a better shielded cable since they only claim responsibility up to the building drop.

Analog OTA isn't an option because of the horrible multipath distortion.

DBS isn't an option because I have no southeasterly view.

Soo...

I spent 400 bucks on a Samsung SIR-T150.
I downconvert to 480i and feed out over the NTSC Video-out & the Audio-outs to my 300 buck 27" television.

Kinda expensive, but for the first time in the entire time I've lived in this location, I can actually watch my local stations. (KOMO-DT, KING-DT, KIRO-DT, KCTS-DT, KSTW-DT, KCPQ-DT, KONG-DT, KTWB-DT)

Other than the sheer price of the solution, I can't recommend it enough. It was, for me, the perfect solution.

[zarlor]

Absolutely! And I think that is something that is probably too often overlooked in this digital transition. Consider that one of the main reasons for going to cable for many people was because they had so many problems getting any kind of decent picture using an antenna. So cable steps in and gives you a picture based on what that cable company is picking up with their antenna, whcih is probably better than yours. The extra channels was just a plus and you pay them for the priviledge of getting their better reception.

Of course these days many folks have begun to get used to the quality fo DVD on their sets. And compared to that the usually over-compressed signal of not-always-great reception that a local cable company sends out for local channels and most of the time the local stuff looks pretty crappy.

Enter digital tuners and that good old antenna that didn't work all that well when we tried to pick up out local analog channels so very poorly. Now when they broadcast a digital signal to us we either get that signal or we don't. No more ghosting, no more snow, maybe just the occasional digital artifact or breakup when the signal loses streght for some reason. (Although some folks do have some problems with multipathing, but let's NOT go there, shall we?)

Now we have a way of getting those local channels and having them look as good as a any DVD we might watch on our old fashioned analog sets, just through the use of a digital tuner. It IS kind of expensive right now, but FCC mandates will now start phasing those tuners into every set by 2007. As more of these tuners get made the quicker the price will drop.

Sure thepicture is nowhere near as awesome as seeing it in treu HD, but for many folks just getting what they are used to seeing with DVD from their local channels is a MAJOR improvement. It may even get more folks watching their local stations. Time will tell.

[moody]

Will our regular analog tv's become obsolete when they switch over or will they still show a picture.

Reason being. I want a new tv. However, no way am I paying $3000-$5000 for something that will come down in price by 50% over the next 2 years. Plus, minimal HDTV programming is available in my area right now.

So I'm looking at 32"-36" non-hdtv to use now for the next 2 years and then move it to the basement when I decide to go with hdtv as our main set.

My gut feeling tells me that the pricing will come down drastically over the next year and that there are many more advances in features offered to be made in future .

Back to my origianl question. Will a non-hdtv work after the switch in 2006?

[kevinw]

Thats a big if..If they turn the switch then your old TV will need a digital STB to convert the signal to work. Many think the broadcasters will not meet the deadline.

As for prices coming down, I do not think so.
Large screen analog TVs up till last year were averaging the same price HD-ready sets are now.
As analog becomes obsolete the prices dropped.


You can get into a reasonable HD big screen for 1800-2700. Add the set top box later.
I think they are close to the low pricepoint now. They may not increase in price but certainly will not go down. When a product becomes obsolete or technically improved then the older model will cost less. Factor in cost of manufacturing and the addition of new features and the price will not change.

Since you do not tell us where you live I can not tell you what HD programming is available. See this www.titantv.com

ABC.CBS, NBC and WB will all have primetime HD programming.

The bonus is that a HD ready tv really makes a DVD's shine.

[zarlor]

I would definitely have to concur with kevinw, although I think the prices still have a bit further to drop. However I don't expect that drop to happen in the next year because of the FCC tuner requirement ruling.

However, $3,000-$5,000 is quite a bit for a set, unless you are looking at some of the fairly high-end larger screen RPTVs or FPTVs. Check out some of the HDTVs you might be interested in and search the Internet for prices. More than a few local places will actually match an Internet price, giving you local service at a phenominal price. Even Sears will do this for sets they carry. I would suggest you are either looking at prices you may have heard from misinformed reporters (I've seen more than a few such newspaper articles often misquoting HDTV prices these days) or from prices you might remember from a year or two ago for HDTVs. Heck, my stepfather found a sale at one of the local stores and got a 4:3, 50" RCA for around $900, and that was almost a year ago now.

Come on in, the water's fine!

[moody]

Thanks for the quick response! I plan to head out to best buy/circuit city. I live between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. About 60 miles from each. I'm pretty sure our local Youngstown affiliates are not even close to HDTV transmission.

I have seen pricing around 1300-2000 but then add the extra antennas, cables, converters..... and your up to the $3000 mark for true HDTV..right?

Anyways, I like Sony. It matches up well with my other Sony components. Is the 36"XBR their latest and greatest?

[kevinw]

Moody
go here for What stations are in your range
www.antennweb.org

Youngstown should be full Digital by next spring but between Cleveland/Pittsburgh you have at least 8 free digital channels.

Tube TV's are pricier than larger rear projection.

You can be in the HD family for about 2500 total

17-1900 for the TV -widescreen 43-50 inch
regular 4:3 screen for about 1100.00
4-500 for STB -Samsung OTA only
100 for antenna and wire....

Good luck and feel free to come back and askabout what you find.

[moody]

THat antennaweb site is cool. What is the range of these antenna things? You'll have to excuse the dumb questions I'm used to cable on a crappy 27" Zenith.

[kevinw]

I feel your pain, I went from 25inch RCA to a Toshiba 50 inch widescreen:cool:

Not knowing exactly how far you are, I receive nearly perfect signals from Atlanta. I am about 40 air miles from the towers. I use a basic Radio Shack antenna- VU160-big honker on my roof.
less than 100 bucks for the antenna,chimney mount, amplifier and cable.

Go back to antenna Web and click on antenna it will recomend a size...

[moody]

Well. After talking with you guys yesterday I ventured out into the world of stupid salespeople at Circuit City and Best Buy.

None of them think I can do what you claim.
On top of not being able to recieve signals from Pittsburgh or Cleveland, they also claim that Youngstown won't have anything digital High-DEf until 2006, which is not what antennaweb.com claims.

Anyways, I tried to buy the Sony KV32HS500 and they were out of them and on back order for 11 other people. They wanted around $1400 for it.

Driving home I was kind of releived they didn't have it because I wanted to do a little more research.

I'm making this way to difficult.

[kevinw]

I should have told you go to SEARS..they will price match the best price from the internet,they care about your business and they do not even pretend to know anything.

No your not making it difficult. Shop smart look at many different brands untill you feel you have found the 1. It took me a year to jump. Worse part is I never knew anout these forums untill after my purchase. I learned a lot and fortunately for me I did not make any real bad choices. Ask question from people who have been where you are now.

[moody]

I called and spoke to the Terk antenna technical support guys. They said the best their antenna would do was about 40-50 miles which is about 10-20 miles short of waht i probably need for it to work well. The said their #35 antenna was the one to go with if I wanted to try it. So I'm back to shold I just get a regular flat screen non-HD for the time being?

The wife would be really mad if I told her we were moving so that I could get a better HDTV signal.

This sucks.