So Many Choices.....

[mquinn25]

Well....I am finally seriously shopping for a 16x9 set. Actually, I have been looking at these sets for 3 years, and I think they have come down to a reasonable price and the technology has improved. There are also a SHOCKING number of sets to choose from. There are an equally shocking number of marketing gimmicks all the manufacturers use for their proprietary scanning, scaling, line doubling, de-interlacing whatever you want to call it mumbo jumbo. The lack of knowledge drom the salespeople and the lack of proper calibration at the stores is unbelieveable. I am surprised some stores would even sell one set!

Here is what I am looking for:

Primary use of the set will be for watching DVD's. Secondary use will be for watching regular Television. So, I definitely would like a set that has a nice zoom mode to change 4:3 to 16:9 and not distort the image by making people look short and fat. Some sets seem to handle this much better than others. I also need a set that will handle anamorphic dvd images like nobodys business :-). Image quality is more important than size, I think a 47" would be acceptable, but a 51, 53, 55 or 57 would be fine, 60+ is too big. I would gladly buy a 51" if I liked the image better than a 57". I do NOT care at all about sound quality...in fact I could care less id it had no speakers....I already have a surround sound system.

Here are the sets I have seriously looked at...

1) Pioneer SD-533HD5 Stunning HDTV, havent seen dvd yet. The 58" counterpart to this set is at a local Costco for only $2,799.99.
How is regular tv and dvd on this set? From what I have seen....only the Sony comes close to as good an image.

2) Sony KP-57HW40 and its 51" counterpart: I like the HDTV and
dvd. How is regular tv? This set has great image quality and IMHO is far superior to the Hitachi model. THis set has no ghosting or artifacting when adjusted. Really impressive.

3) Mitsubishi 55" Platinum Plus: A nice picture with a great 4:3 to 16:9 enhancement mode that really preserves the picture. I think the image quality is just a little inferior to the Pioneer and Sony, but a DEFINITE contender.

4) Hitachi (forgot the model #): I know I know this set is rated very high...I give it a thumbs down. The image quality is just not there. It isnt nearly as refined as the Sony/ image. I think it has artifacting and ghosting and the color seems washed out.

I still want to take a serious look at the Toshibas and Panasonics. I am not to interested in the RCA's or Samsungs.

So help me out here.....what are your recommendations? What have you liked and disliked about these sets? Please help me out.

I appreciate your input!

Regards,

MQ

[tviewer]

Good luck in your search for 'your' correct HDTV. But you did pick the best (in my personal opinion) site for HDTV stuff. I have seen three other sites concerning this material and this one beats them out flat.

I myself am considering a Pioneer (reason for subject title) Plasma. Have seen both the plasma at and spoken with four different hdtv sales outlets and also the Pioneer customer relations dept. (very helpful and responsive) - so far Pioneer is the best.

Keep us informed on this thread about your hdtv choice.

[AUMMitsu]

I went throught this a couple months ago trying to figure out the best set for me, i ended up getting the Mitsubishi 55 inch Platinum Plus, overall it seemed like the best buy for me.

[ZeroDegreeK]

Originally posted by mquinn25
Here is what I am looking for:

Primary use of the set will be for watching DVD's. Secondary use will be for watching regular Television.
MQ

Will you be watching any HD on your HDTV?

I went with the Mitsubishi also. In my opinion, they had the best optics. Seeing the sets in the stores are sometimes decieving. They are almost never calibrated correctly.

You can't go wrong with any of the sets you mentioned for watching DVDs.

Good luck

[AUMMitsu]

Seeing the sets in the stores are sometimes decieving. They are almost never calibrated correctly.

Yup, when I was shopping for a TV, one of the salesman told me that they turn the brightness up to 100% to make the picture look better and if you watch it like that at home you'll get a headache. Also its really hard to get a feel for what the TV will look like in your house compared to when its surrounded by a bunch of other bigscreens.

[Dan]

Don't rush anything and spend a lot of time doing research. That is important because the TV manufacturers like to cheat a lot and call a lot of things HDTV which, in my opinion, are not.

For what it is worth here are a couple of pieces of advice.

1) HDTV is supposed to be 1080i with 1920 horizontal pixels giving the set over 2 million picture elements. It is amazing that most sets sold as HDTVs don't have anywheres near 2 million picture elements because they don't have 1920 horizontal pixels. However, it is hard to find out how many horizontal pixels a TV set has because the manufacturers seldom give the specs. As a general rule, if they don't advertise the horizontal pixels it is because they are giving fewer than 1920 so you might want to consider not buying the set.

2) A lot of sets passed off as HDTV these days have a 4:3 aspect ratio instead of the 16:9 ratio that HDTVs should have. If you buy a 4:3 set you will wind up having any true HDTV signal either distorted to fit the screen, cropped, or displayed letterbox format any one of which is completely unacceptable in my opinion. Sony is one of the worst offenders in this regard so watch out. If they don't clearly state in the specs what the screen dimensions are it means it is probably a 4:3. All of this leads to another point. If you can afford to spend $3,000 or more on a TV than you should be getting a true 16:9 HDTV without worrying about how well it shows analog programs. Just keep your old TV set around to watch those programs and use the HDTV for HDTV programs and DVDs. That may seem like a waste but in reality within 2 or 3 years most TV will have converted to HDTV and you really won't want to be watching it on a 4:3 set. A TV should last you 10 or 15 years so you don't want one that is going to be obsolete in 3 or 4 years. The bottom line - when shopping for a HDTV you should only worry about how well it displays HDTV signals not how it displays analog signals.

3) I am probably going to have a lot of people disagree with this but I would really recommend a Tube TV over a projection TV. I don't believe projections TVs have as good picture nor will they ever. Ultimately tube tvs will be replace by plasmas or some other such technology but for now they are the best thing there is - and when they are replaced it wont be by projections. Also, I realize size is a personal preference but you might want to think twice about getting a really big TV. IMHO, anything over about 42 inches is just too big. Although HDTV is really good it still has a finite number of lines of resolution and if you increase the picture size enough you will start to notice imperfections. For a TV in a regular size room a 30 to 40 inch TV will show a great picture and is still a good size TV.

Good luck
Dan

[sieve11]

Dan hit some great points in his response. Unless you really like the look of a rear projection set, I would strongly suggest a direct view set also.
RPs with HD input can look very good, as long as you have the one seat where your eye level is directly in front of the center of the set. Get off axis and bad things start to happen quickly.
There were pictures posted on another site of a Super Bowl party. He had a metal 4 tier bleacher set up in his family room. Now, it looked cool because it had that stadium feel, but it was also functional because it put the most people possible on center axis. This let more people see the game without the big light falloff you get from the side seating.
My HD set is an RCA 38" direct view, 16x9 integrated model. It does display 2 million pixels, so the HD pictures are very impressive (and much better at home than I saw at any retailer). It may not be the ultimate HD experience, but it ain't bad. I see this eventually being our second, or family room HD set, when prices drop on either plasma or DLP.
I expect a long life from this unit and have already realized a great return on my investment. Sunday nights are family night as we all gather to watch the Disney movie of the week in High Def.
Don't be misled by what you may see of any particular set at only one retailer. View the sets that you are interested in at several different stores. One of them may have it actually set up correctly and, who knows, if you visit enough stores, you may actually find a salesman who really understands this stuff.
Good luck in your search.

[mquinn25]

I appreciate all your input...and I fully agree that the sets are calibrated very poorly in the stores. Yes...the tube sets are definitely better, but I really like the theater feel the larger screens give. MY HT room is very narrow, so off axis wont be too much of an issue, nor will ambient light. Truly, this set will be to play dvd's and HDTV when i decide to get the decoder. If I could get a DLP projector and screen for the same amount, I would consider that route too, but as great as DLP is, there are a few bugs to iron out on the one chip projectors. And i sure dont have $50k to lay out for a 3 chip. :-)



I was at Best Buy today...again crummy set up...but I tell you...That Pioneer set is just unreal...it just looks good. I was also ...believe it or not...impressed by the Samsung....the anti-glare screen is a nice feature for those who have alot of ambient light. This set surprised me. The Sony didnt look that great no matter what I did...then the salesman said..."oh, that one is not hooked up through component video." WHat the hell? Until I can find a halfway decent store to at least view a dvd through component video, an andlog signal and an HD signal...I just wont be able to buy.....maybe I should open a store? :-) I sure as hell woulnt buy a car without driving it....why should i buy a tv without trying it?...especially a $3000 TV. I guess I will have to make a trip down to LA to go to a decent store. Good Guys, Sears, Best Buy and Circuit City just don't get it. :-)

[ZeroDegreeK]

Originally posted by Dan
3) I am probably going to have a lot of people disagree with this but I would really recommend a Tube TV over a projection TV. I don't believe projections TVs have as good picture nor will they ever. Ultimately tube tvs will be replace by plasmas or some other such technology but for now they are the best thing there is - and when they are replaced it wont be by projections. Also, I realize size is a personal preference but you might want to think twice about getting a really big TV. IMHO, anything over about 42 inches is just too big. Although HDTV is really good it still has a finite number of lines of resolution and if you increase the picture size enough you will start to notice imperfections. For a TV in a regular size room a 30 to 40 inch TV will show a great picture and is still a good size TV.

Good luck
Dan

Oh Man!! Count me in on the disagree side. A properly calibrated RPTV can look just as good as a direct view tube tv. The only thing the tubes have going for them is brightness. This is not an issue if you keep ambient light levels low.

Cable and Satellite reception definately look better on a smaller set. There is just not enough picture resolution to blow up to 55+ inches. DVDs make you feel like you are at the movies. A good PS DVD player and a rear projection HDTV look BETTER than direct view televisions. It gives you that projected movie theater feel.

I venture you haven't even seen true HDTV on a 65"+ RPTV. When I watch the olympics and they take a pulled back shot of an arena, I mean where you can see everybody there. I can still read what is on the people's t-shirts. It's like being there. A friend of mine has a 100 inch HDTV projection system set up. And I still don't see any of the imperfections you are talking about. Watching HDTV on that 100 inch is just wierd, and amazing.

[sieve11]

I really, really, really wanted to get the 61" RCA instead of the 38" direct view. But, no matter how hard I tried, I could not convince myself that I would be happy watching that thing unless I sat directly in front of it.

My daughter likes to watch TV while laying on the floor. When she laid down in a store and looked up at the set, there was no picture! Not exactly a rewarding viewing experience.

Plus, our family room is more square than rectangular, so we have a lot of seating at 45 degrees or more from center axis. Do you know of a rear projector that offers an equal viewing experience from those positions that comes anywhere close to what the person sitting center stage gets to see.

Not only that, but every set I looked at seemed very bright in the center, but had quite a bit of fall off in the corners. Now I know that some RPs are better than others, but these looked like general characteristics of all RPs.

So, the issue is not what quality is possible from RPs, but how good is from all viewing angles. Like I said, I really wanted to buy that 61" and impress my friends. However, with the direct view, I can impress more of them, at the same time, with HD pictures and without anyone needing to sit on my lap.

[ZeroDegreeK]

Originally posted by sieve11
So, the issue is not what quality is possible from RPs, but how good is from all viewing angles. Like I said, I really wanted to buy that 61" and impress my friends. However, with the direct view, I can impress more of them, at the same time, with HD pictures and without anyone needing to sit on my lap.

I admit RPTVs have a limited viewing angle, but they are getting better. I really hadn't considered that before because I, and my friends, sit far enough away from the set so viewing angle is never an issue.

But in order to impress my friends, I want them to sit in my lap.:rolleyes:

I do agree with Dan on his first two points, however, RPTVs have come a long way. Given the right source, they can look every bit as good as a direct view, and for some sources, even better.

[barbinmike]

Looking at the phillips...36" what do you all think?
Let me know...
Thanks barbi

[mquinn25]

Originally posted by sieve11
I really, really, really wanted to get the 61" RCA instead of the 38" direct view. But, no matter how hard I tried, I could not convince myself that I would be happy watching that thing unless I sat directly in front of it.

My daughter likes to watch TV while laying on the floor. When she laid down in a store and looked up at the set, there was no picture! Not exactly a rewarding viewing experience.

Plus, our family room is more square than rectangular, so we have a lot of seating at 45 degrees or more from center axis. Do you know of a rear projector that offers an equal viewing experience from those positions that comes anywhere close to what the person sitting center stage gets to see.

Not only that, but every set I looked at seemed very bright in the center, but had quite a bit of fall off in the corners. Now I know that some RPs are better than others, but these looked like general characteristics of all RPs.

So, the issue is not what quality is possible from RPs, but how good is from all viewing angles. Like I said, I really wanted to buy that 61" and impress my friends. However, with the direct view, I can impress more of them, at the same time, with HD pictures and without anyone needing to sit on my lap.

Definitely true to a point. BUT I felt that the Mitsubishi 55" RPTV had extraordinarily good viewing angles even at 45 degrees. Some of the other RPTV's were horrible viewing at an angle.

I think the points everyone bringing up here make it clear that RPTV's are definitely not for everyone. First, you do need to sit back at least 10 feet or you might get seasick (seriously) plus the picture is better from a distance. Not everyone has the space for that. Viewing angles are a concern and so is ambient light. For the most part, this is not an everyday family tv, especially since most shows are not in HDTV format. I mean...think about it...do you need a $3000 TV to watch Friends, Will & Grace or some other dumb show?

I want a RPTV because I want that movie screen feel.....which you definitely get at 10 - 14 feet away. I also can't watch a movie in 4:3...I would rather keep the proper aspect ratio and sit on top of my 27" Toshiba then to put a 2.35:1 picture into 4:3.

I will have this set in a dedicated HT/Game room with controlled lighting and seating. THis is where I will watch movies and special events in HDTV. I may never watch regular TV on this set......I will continue to use my 27" Toshiba for that...which does a fine job.

The point is.....we all have different needs...:-)....A tube set is a good solution in many instances....a RPTV in others. Research and watch before you buy!!!! :-)

[barbinmike]

You made lots of good points....Thanks for the other view to think about...We have a small room and we have satillate, and we have a wege 36 inch tv right now, not in hdtv monitor, but we do want to change, there is why too many choices...Way too many,
its not like the old days, when you bought an rca or sony, you knew you got the best, but nowadays everyone is selling hdtv, and it hurts my brain to figure out which way to go..Thanks again for you imput..Have a great day..

[mquinn25]

...but to be honest, I don't know much about the Phillips...I am not sure what model you are looking at either. I have never owned a Phillips product. I do know that they have a reputation for coming out with things first (at least bringing it to mainstream market)...but I think other companies perfect the technology and do a better job with it....I always though Sony's had the best picture even though they cost more as far as good old regular tv's go....but dor HD Tube sets...I really don't know...try looking at www.audioreview.com under tv's and see if you can find a review on it. Good Luck in your search and let us all know what you decide!

:-)

[harmer]

Searching for a new set can be exciting, interesting , and very tiring. Glad my search ended last year. No matter what you end up with, you will enjoy it when you get it home. I bought a 61" Toshiba RPTV over a 36" Sony Vega and was very worried it would be too big. People who had a large RPTV said I would never go back to regular set and they were right. I love my set, and smile at the great picture and effect when watching sports, especially Olympics and outdoor/live programs. I used to hear that companies like RCA made sets that were on the red/orange warm colour side, while Mits. made sets that were green/blue or cool colouring. Don't know if that still applies, but you should go with what your gut tells you is the one that looks the best to you.
It's fun now reading stories of those trying to make the right decision.
Soon you will be on this side of the fence.
Good luck.

[kevinw]

Here is my 2 cents..a tube tv does give a better picture but it is a small screen, Hard to have a cinematic experience. Wide screen is best for Dvds and HD viewing. If you are not going to do much of this save the money and buy a 4:3. The number 1 reason for bigscreen return other than mechanical defect is " it's to big for my living room".

A 50 inch widescreen is best viewed at 6-8 feet
a 65 at 11-15 feet. The bigger the screen the worse stretched 4:3 material looks. Try this function too because some convert much better than others Toshiba WS 1 setting is one of the best.

Measure your room. Look at the size of cabinets. try out the remote controls, turn down the contrast and brightness at the store and see what looks best to your eye. Get at eye level most important because Hd tvs off center will dim.(One reason places like "Worst Buy" crank the brightness and contrast up)

Take this for what its worth I searched for over 2 years waiting for the right tv at the right price and ended up with a Toshiba 50h81 from Sears.

[barbinmike]

You guys are sooooooooo COOOOOLLL!!
I really really apprc. all the great feedback it is helping us, quite a bit....Need to get rid of the sony first then we can get a hdtv..I have BEEN saving forever...It seems like, just wish i could pack you all up in a box and take ya to the store w/me!! LOL, wouldnt that be star trecky of me....Anyways, thanks again for all the great info...Printer working ot...Have a great week..
Dont forget...Wed 02/20/02 at 20:02 pm...
bye bye