Newbee

[klkyte]

Purchased my 32xbr450 last month based on fact that Comcast Cable was offering HD signal to customers in Trenton, NJ area. Just had their HD box (Motorola HDD-200) intalled on 2/13. Interested in comparing experiences, problems & solutions others are having with similar setups and HD signal providers.

Very pleased with overall performance of the xbr. Picture quality is good on analog and HD feeds.

According to Comcast installer, I'm the eighth subscriber in the Trn area for HD cable. Installation was a learning experience for everybody, but persistance eventually won out and I have access to HD broadcasts for ABC, NBC & HBO channels.

I have a lot of questions regarding broadcast formats. My video display varies from full screen (4:3) to centered screen (4:3) with the black borders all four sides. I view 16:9 using the "enhance" option on the xbr, but only seem to have full width on 'movie' sources. Regular TV programming and most commercials are cropped 'letterbox' with borders all around.

It seems my control options (xbr & hd-200) are limited in dealing with the multiple broadcast formats being offered. My personal best fit is to be able to view all HD programming in a 'full width' letterbox display which provides 'proportioned' images on a 4:3 screen.

Any similar experiences ???

[Dan]

Hi.

My boss bought the same TV and has it hooked up to Direct TV. He is having the same problem - none of the formats use the entire screen. He always has letter boxes of various sizes. A tech is coming out this weekend to look at it. I will let you know what I find out from my boss and if they were able to fix it.

BTW, why did you buy a 4:3 HDTV when HDTV is supposed to be 16:9. IMO, if you can you should return it and get a widescreen.

Dan

[Jon J]

Originally posted by Dan
why did you buy a 4:3 HDTV when HDTV is supposed to be 16:9.

Probably because the amount of 16:9 programming is miniscule compared to 4:3. Would you rather see black borders some or most of the time?

[Dan]

If you are watching 4:3 you are watching analog and for that you should just keep your old analog TV around. In 3 or 4 years most shows will be in HDTV 16:9 and then your 4:3 HDTV will be clearly inferior. A TV should last at least 10 or 15 years so a 4:3 HDTV will be inferior and obsolete for most of the time that you own it.

[Jon J]

Originally posted by Dan
If you are watching 4:3 you are watching analog...

You just destroyed any credibility you may wish you had.

[Dan]

Really, there is a network that broadcasts a HDTV signal in a 4:3 format? What network is that? All HDTV signals that I know of a broadcast in 16:9. Now if you are trying to watch a HDTV signal on a 4:3 set (which is a mistake in my opinion for the previously stated reasons) that is possible - but that is not the way the signal is broadcast.

Dan

[thoennes]

Originally posted by klkyte

I have a lot of questions regarding broadcast formats. My video display varies from full screen (4:3) to centered screen (4:3) with the black borders all four sides. I view 16:9 using the "enhance" option on the xbr, but only seem to have full width on 'movie' sources. Regular TV programming and most commercials are cropped 'letterbox' with borders all around.


Any similar experiences ???

I have this TV and I am considering the comcast HDTV option for my area (they just started offering it). Interesting to read your experience with this.

Question for you:

Take any HDTV sitcom on ABC/NBC: are they broadcast in 1080i? At what ratio? My understanding is the signal is completely independent of the aspect ratio (meaning: 1080i can be 4:3, 2.35:1, 16:9 (approx. 1.78:1), etc....) HDTV isn't a specification for aspect ratio but for resolution of the picture itself.

When I bought this TV, I viewed an HDTV source - 1080i - going into it. The show was formatted 16:9 (1.78:1) and it looked simply stunning.

[Dan]

The aspect ratio is NOT independent of the resolution. The FCC has specified that the HDTV formats of 1080i and 720p are to be broadcast with a 16:9 aspect ratio. Only with the 480p resolution, which is not HDTV, is there a choice of 4:3 or 16:9.

That is why if you buy a 4:3 HDTV capable set you are going to lose out. To show an HDTV sitcom from ABC, as in your example, it will have to either cut off 1/3 of the image, distort the image by compressing it, or show it letterbox with black borders on top and bottom. Any of these three alternatives pretty much defeats the purpose of spending $3,000 to watch great HDTV.

Another poster stated that people buy these 4:3 HDTVs so that non-HDTV shows look good on them. But for that you could just keep your old TV around for a few years until things have been transitioned.

BTW, if you want to see all of the new TV standards and what resolutions and apect ratios they imply there are several web sites that do that. The PBS website is one.

Dan

[thoennes]

The source I viewed in the store showed a letterbox image (bars on top and bottom) @1080i that was fine. I have no problems with black bars at the top and bottom. Even Widescreen TV's have them with DVD's over 1.78:1.

I'm curious as to why the original poster sees bars all around the image. This can be quite confusing.

I thought the Sony TV enhanced mode would detect the proper aspect ratio and do the appropriate vertical compression. Must not be understanding something here.

[thoennes]

Originally posted by klkyte

I have a lot of questions regarding broadcast formats. My video display varies from full screen (4:3) to centered screen (4:3) with the black borders all four sides. I view 16:9 using the "enhance" option on the xbr, but only seem to have full width on 'movie' sources. Regular TV programming and most commercials are cropped 'letterbox' with borders all around.

Any similar experiences ???

So how does a show broadcast in 1080i look like on the set? Can you turn on enhanced mode and have it fill the screen horizontally but obviously not vertically?

[klkyte]

Theonnes --

It appears we have exactly the same setup based on your message in the Cinemotion thread ---- 32xbr450, Sony 700np DVD and Comcast. Will be very interested in your experiences. Some of mine ---

1. Comcast's hdd-200 sidecar has 4 output options to your XBR. (ie. 1080i, 720p, 480p and 'native') After some experimenting, setting the switch to 1080i appears to me to be the best choice.

The XBR does not display 720p resolution, so ABC goes to snow on the 720p and 'native' settings. And --- who wants 480p.

2. With the hdd-200 setting at 1080i, i have a display for ABC, NBC and HBO of only letterbox (both full width and cropped). Full width ltbx is bars top and bottom, cropped ltbx is bars all around.
(I don't subscribe to Showtime)

3. Full width vs. Cropped ltbx is a function of programming. As far as I can tell the resolutions on each channel remain constant (ie -- ABC 720p, NBC 1080i and HBO 1080i). I am not sure what the HDD-200 does with the ABC 720P input --- somehow it outputs in in a hybrid 1080i mode.

Depending on the program, I get either full width or cropped letterbox display. It appears to me that most 'movie' programming is full width, while network programming and commercials are predominantly cropped ltbx.

4. The 'enhance' function is unavailable in the above configuration for cable input. Only when I use the DVD in progressive mode does the 'enhance' function become active. It is used to adust the automatic "stretch" function of the XBR back to a 16:9 aspect ratio (Ie -- Letterbox)

5. Others have asked why I got the 4:3 HDTV --- lot of guesses at my thought process, but the all missed the real reason ---- my $1500. entertainment center only had room for the 32" 4:3 set!!!!



As you might deduce, I'm not up on all the technics, rather a trial and error approach. Again real interested in your successs & failures as something I don't have to repeat.

Ken

PS --- Have you been following the DVI/HDCP issue ???

[thoennes]

Thanks. After a few hours of searching, I came up with just about the same info.

I may hold off a little on the HDTV comcast option. I'm not interested in the movie stations, and ABC/NBC have only a few shows in HI-def.

Tell me something: how is all of this hooked up?

Meaning: I assume you have a digital receiver for the digital cable which must output to the HD receiver which then outputs to the TV via component?

Or do you have both the digital receiver AND the HD receiver hooked up to the TV?

if the former, I would assume a non-hd signal would be passed through the HD receiver to the TV and you'd be watching 4:3 with no cropping.

--

I bought a 4:3 HiDef set because most of the affordable widescreen sets were RPTV - which is just too sensitive to burn-in. My kids would kill an RPTV set as well as certain stations with their stationaty logo or scrolling marquee. In fact, about every RPTV set I looked at in the various stores had some kind of burn-in.

The sony 16:9 tube set - VERY NICE - was $4K - about 2K too much.

I love the 32XBR450 - with a good signal, it's just a beautiful picture (once you do all the fine adjustments through the service menu with good test patterns - like Video Essentials).

Thanks.

[sieve11]

First of all, don't pay too much attention to the doomsayers. They may never find the "right time" to get involved with HD. I'm still waiting to hear which HD set Dan has to go with all his opinions.

One point in favor of a 4x3 HD set is the ability to get digital 4x3 signals. On my set, the OTA 4x3s look great, even though I have a 16x9 set. We chose the RCA 38310, which is 38" diagonal, 16x9. It was only $2100 and could be had online for much less (retail cost is around $1750).

As far as burn-in, well, it's a direct view, so I don't worry as much about burn-in as I would with a RP. Plus, my 8 year old daughter "prefers" to watch her shows in expanded mode, which works just fine for animated shows and xbox.

We too had considered trying to get an HD set to fit in our entertainment center, but the one we were looking at was the RCA 36" 4x3, which did fit in the same space as the 32" Sony that we still have there. But, it was $1500 without the DTC100 and the DirecTV receivers that are built into the 38310. So, when the wife said we could re-decorate the family room, it was a done deal.

While I am a strong advocate of HD NOW, I think you made a great choice, for now. When there are plasma and front projection sets available at a lower cost, you can add one and be a 2 HDTV family.

Good viewing!

[Dan]

I am not getting anything until the summer because Time Warner cable put me on the waiting list for a HDTV converter until the summer.

I would go with the RCA 38" TV with everything built in because I think it is the best value out there. Unfortunately, living in NYC sattelite isn't an option because my line of sight to the sattelites is obstructed by other buildings.

So I think I have it narrowed down to the Sampo 16:9 set or the Panasonic 34" 16:9 set. The Sampo seems a little better in terms of the specs but it is really an unproven company so I am a little wary of that.

BTW, I don't mean to be critical of people who buy 4:3 HDTV sets. If it is what you want or what is best for you than by all means get it. The only thing that concerns me is that I think some people, like my boss, who get 4:3 sets didn't really realize what their options were or what the details of HDTV are. When that happens and people are unhappy with their expensive new TV (as my boss is) it just gives the whole concept of HDTV a bad name and slows down its adoption.

Anyways, best wishes to everyone with whatever set they get and I will let you now when my long yearning for HDTV comes to fruition in a set of my own.

Dan