View Full Version : Progressive scan from DVD or use TV's?
ygboi
01-26-2004, 12:27 PM
Hey everyone...
I just setup my new Panasonic home-theater-in-a-box system last night. (model SCHT900) My question is, should turn on it's prog. scan or use my Sony 51ws510's prog. scan? Or will one disable the other if it detects a component connection? I would just like to know which is better to use for DVD's? Thanks much in advance!
Goddahavit
01-26-2004, 01:50 PM
well, it depends on the player and the tv,
try both, and see whitch looks better to you,
I have a panasonic burner, and it looks better interlased and let my tv upconvert to 480p, but I also have a xp30, whitch looks pretty good 480P to the tv, so its really what looks better to your eyes, not a set rule.
just mho
Now as you might have heard on this forum before, if you have a Sony HDTV or monitor take off progressive on the DVD player and use cineimotion on your DRC settings. Once I did this, there was no doubt that my picture cleared up big time! Here I was ditching the old 360D for this new model DVP-NS725P so I could get progressive scan and it looks worse! Now I will say that it is a bit clearer then the old model without progressive on, but as far as I am concerned it makes me feel like the whole progressive scan is a scam.
I am concerned it makes me feel like the whole progressive scan is a scam. EDTV (480p) is definitely better than SDTV (480i). Its all in how you get there.
I've gone to sending 480i to my display and letting it do the deinterlacing (Faroudja in the projector). On my RPTV I did just the opposite and let the DVD player do it (felt that the deinterlacer in the DVD was better).
well, it depends on the player and the tv,
I'd have to agree completely. :)
Lee
I did mention he had a Sony... out of experience they seem to do better with pro scan off and using the DRC. This is not just something I came up with, it's pretty well documented. Not everyone has the Faroudja chip. Those players are still pretty high up in price for somewhat outdated technology. Once the blue lasers come into play all our players will be outdated. I will be glad I spent 120.00 and not 500.00 on my player. :D
kevinw
01-28-2004, 08:19 PM
but as far as I am concerned it makes me feel like the whole progressive scan is a scam.
I am in agreement here, I can't count how many times people have complained about a el cheapo PS player not giving the picture the old non-PS did.
I am not even sure my Panasonic with faroudja is any better than my old Phillips player. I can not even see any real advantage flipping PS off and on with the Panasonic and letting the TV do the line doubling.
But what the heck I am not going to admit that maybe MY DVD player is not the best or even matter because the tv is so bad.:whistle:
mikehbkwm
01-28-2004, 09:12 PM
ive noticed a big difference between flipping from P to I with my DVD player... just to test it i had my wife compare who doesnt give a crap about HDTV and anything HT for that matter and even she said the image looked better with Prog scan active on the player itself just my 2 cents...
Scott5626
01-28-2004, 10:06 PM
Im not sure what Im understanding what Im reading please excuse me Im new here.I just bought a Hitachi 43F300 I have Toshiba SD-3900 should I leave pro on the DVD on or turn it off?
mikehbkwm
01-28-2004, 10:15 PM
its all up to you switch back between both of them and whatever looks best to you leave the setting at that...
ygboi
01-29-2004, 09:16 AM
Wow, thanks for the input guys! Well, after posting, I decided to use the progressive scan on from my Panasonic. But that's only because I haven't had any time to switch and compare. It does make sense though, that since my HTIB was only $500, I should go with the DRC in the Sony. I mean, $500 for 5.1 and a 5 disc DVD changer is probably a good indication that not much was put into the DVD player. My question now is, do I simply disable progressive scan to my TV and assume the TV is taking the 480i and taking it to 480p? I have 3 options: interlaced, (or this deinterlaced, i can't remember) progressive and Cinemotion. Which should I choose? Again thanks.
Originally posted by ygboi
Wow, thanks for the input guys! Well, after posting, I decided to use the progressive scan on from my Panasonic. But that's only because I haven't had any time to switch and compare. It does make sense though, that since my HTIB was only $500, I should go with the DRC in the Sony. I mean, $500 for 5.1 and a 5 disc DVD changer is probably a good indication that not much was put into the DVD player. My question now is, do I simply disable progressive scan to my TV and assume the TV is taking the 480i and taking it to 480p? I have 3 options: interlaced, (or this deinterlaced, i can't remember) progressive and Cinemotion. Which should I choose? Again thanks.
Here is the deal. If you have progressive on, on your DVD player it will grey out the DRC settings on your SONY anyways. So what you need to do is try the progressive button on your player and see if that looks better then with it off and using cineimotion on your DRC. Please let me know if that makes sense.
I also wanted to mention that the Faroudja chip is supposed to get rid of the "Chroma Bug" in progressive scan players. Does anyone have this chip and know about the bug? If you do not know about the bug I would suggest that you don't read up on it or learn what it is. I now know and can see it every stinkin time LOL! That is another reason why I took progressive off.
Here is a link that has excellent information about it. Again it's not a big deal, but for people that are perfectionists with a good eye, you will see it every time.
Chroma Bug Link (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html)
ygboi
01-29-2004, 11:37 AM
A million thanks, and yes, it makes much sense and I'm anxious to try the Cinemotion feature this afternoon. Will reply with results. I'm also currently doing searches on the DRC in general.
Goddahavit
01-29-2004, 11:38 AM
To my linited knowlage the Faroudja is not the fix for the chroma bug,
I forget the link exactly but homtheaterhifi or something like that has a shootout and recomends players the results will tell you whitch players tested have the bug and whitch do not,
I do believe some of the Faroudja Players can have the chroma bug....
I am sure a search will give you the link, or some kind sole will post the link..
just my .02
If you look at that link I posted it has a couple players that aren't effected by the bug.
ygboi
01-30-2004, 10:55 AM
Just wanted to extend my thanks to everyone once again. I went home and turned off the progressive scan on my panasonic dvd player. I then was able to use Sony's DRC. Popped in Finding Nemo, LOTR, etc. and I can see a VERY noticeable improvement in overall picture quality! Current settings are Pro mode and Cinemotion. No clue how to configure Pro mode as I have no calibration disks or any knowledge of do's or don'ts as far as color sat., brightness, picture, hue, etc. I have it set at "neutral" temp and everything basically default Pro mode. Any suggestions? The pic looks wonderful as is, but just wondering if it could be improved. Absolute pitch black viewing environment.
Hello,
I am glad I could help with that! Use your pro mode and cineimotion. THey are the best. Also another thing that can help you and is a cheap way to get a half way decent calibration is to use the THX optomizer on movies like Star Wars attack of the clones, or the Indiana Jones DVD's have them too. They work pretty well if you don't have a calibration disk. Good luck!
ygboi
01-30-2004, 11:19 AM
From your help and advice Mech, I'm loving my TV more and more every day I watch. Now I look forward to stopping by my house even for 10 min. just to do some minor adjustments. The best part is, THEY WORK! Never a step backwards, always an improvement. Pro and Cinemotion is the winning combo. Just placed an order for AVIA disk. Can't wait!
ygboi:
Since you are in the "Elite" Sony club I want to give you this link. It is the definitive Sony Site and I have learned more about my tv there then you can imagine. Just as this site is the ultimate site for HDTV, agoraquest is excellent for all Sony products.
agoraquest (http://www.agoraquest.com/)
ygboi
01-30-2004, 02:19 PM
WOW! that's all...WOW!
D-Rock0030
01-30-2004, 03:45 PM
I have a Panasonic DVD player, model DRD25 I think, and a Panasonic CT-32HXC43 TV. I don't think my TV has any deinterlacer as I have read the manual front to back and havent heard or read anything about that. But the DVD player is progressive scan and I can tell a huge difference when I set it for 480P vs 480i. The picture looks great in 480P. I havent noticed the Chroma Bug at all. I read the article that somebody above put in their post. I did notice that the article specifically says that MEI (Panasonic) got it right in their players so maybe thats why I havent noticed it at all. My player was only like 89.95 at circuit city durning christmas time but it plays all my DVD-R's that I have copied and they look great so I guess I cant complain. But I have never really looked hard to see the Chroma Bug so I'll look hard tonight to see if I can tell.
Hello,
Yes I do beleive you are correct that your tv does not have a deinterlacer. That is probably why it looks quite a bit better with pro scan on. By the way don't look for the Chroma bug, do yourself a favor and enjoy what you got going on now. It's one of those once you spot it, you always see it type of deals.
D-Rock0030
01-30-2004, 04:04 PM
Yeah I can see why after reading that article you put a link to. I read it and looked at the examples and some are very bad. But I am curious as to if my cheapy dvd player has them or not. I just looked on their website its the DVDS25S and its now only 79.95.
The salesman told my my tv has 3:2 pulldown, but as I go through the menus I dont see anyway to turn it on or off. I don't know if it actually has it. Would anybody here know??
ygboi
01-30-2004, 04:21 PM
Hey Mech, got another quick question for you. I read about the secret service menu for my 51ws510, and was just wondering if you've gone into that and changed anything. I understand that if I do, I should write down all of it's settings so that if I mess up, I can revert back to defaults. Can I use this menu to boost PQ quality in any way? Is it "red push" that I'm looking for and can adjust? I don't notice too much red now, is that normal? Is that even what "red push" is?
ygboi:
In easy terms red push is basically a red saturation. Some people think that many of the newer tv's can have a hair too much red. So as you mentioned in Sony's and in other brands you can change this in the service menu. If you want to go off good clean advice, stay out of the service menu until you get really familar with your tv and have brushed up a hair more. You can really screw things up if you don't know what you are doing. But yes your are correct that once you are ready, make sure and write everything down. If you don't see a problem I would not mess with the service menu at all.
ygboi
01-30-2004, 05:27 PM
Advice well taken...I won't mess with what I can't see as a problem. Wouldn't want to become a "videophile" and start picking my TV apart, lol. Would like to enjoy my movies, and not analyze anything but the storyline. Thanks Mech, ur awesome.
No problem at all. I can tell by your interest that you are hooked and soon you will be up and running and sharing experiences and advice with others. ENJOY........ :cool:
Scott5626
02-01-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by mech
ygboi:
Since you are in the "Elite" Sony club I want to give you this link. It is the definitive Sony Site and I have learned more about my tv there then you can imagine. Just as this site is the ultimate site for HDTV, agoraquest is excellent for all Sony products.
agoraquest (http://www.agoraquest.com/) Anyone know of any good Hitachi sites to learn from?:afro: :afro: :bow:
Scott5626:
I do not know of any that are as big or have the type of following that Agoraquest does for Sony stuff, but I am sure there are a few out there. Maybe some of the other Hatachi owners on here like Kevin would have a better idea on where to go. I will suggest to look around the internet because you can really learn a ton about your TV.
I feel like I have free tech support from that site from experts that really know their stuff. It has made a big difference on my latest purchases because I also get some pretty indepth reviews along with great tips.
kevinw
02-03-2004, 02:59 PM
I am Toshiba Guy..
kevinw
02-03-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by kevinw
I am in agreement here, I can't count how many times people have complained about a el cheapo PS player not giving the picture the old non-PS did.
I am not even sure my Panasonic with faroudja is any better than my old Phillips player. I can not even see any real advantage flipping PS off and on with the Panasonic and letting the TV do the line doubling.
But what the heck I am not going to admit that maybe MY DVD player is not the best or even matter because the tv is so bad.:whistle:
Well a new test and PS from the DVD player is better. Specifically with credits ..better detail..
Kevin,
Does your TV have something like a DRC setting where it does the scanning? If not I have noticed that exact same thing as you posted in most cases. The p scan setting on the player is best most of the time on those tv's without the line doubler or scanning modes.
summerfun
02-05-2004, 01:30 PM
I have been reading this string with great interest. I too have a Sony and a progressive scan DVD player hooked to the component/HD inputs.
If I am going to switch the DVD player to interlaced, should I connect to the TV via the s-video rather than the component/HD input?
It would be nice to open up one of the component/HD inputs because I would like to hook up my X-Box HD. But, I don't want to do it at the cost of lowering my viewing quality of DVD. That is a lot more important to me than the X-box.
I do have the option of putting the HD Cable box on the DVI/HD input and opening up that component/HD input for the X-box, but I would need to buy and expensive DVI cable.
Any thoughts?
summerfun:
No don't use the s-video, keep them hooked up with the component cables. Just set you DRC on your tv to cinemotion and take of progressive on your DVD player. It is usually a botton located on the front or the back of the player. Now if your progressive is on, on your DVD player your DRC settings on your tv won't work. It automatically shuts off when you have a progressive signal running to your tv. So my point is to try it with it on and off and see what you like best.
I would also suggest that if you can afford it buy the DVI cable. That would free up your componet input. Also if you have a AV receiver there a quite a few more options with hooking things up there too. Just my experience and I am sure there are people that will argue this, but I think you should run your video straight to your TV if you have the inputs to do so. I think it looks cleaner.
First, I need some answers from Mech and other Sony owners: In 480i, you need to set the DRC on your Sony tv to Cinemotion to activate the reverse 3-2 pull-down, does the TV also do PS in this setting? Now, in 480p and up, DRC is disabled. What about reverse 3-2 pull-down? Is it disabled or will sony TV do it when neded?
Here is my thinking. In general, DVD's PS will do a better job than TV's but some of them don't do 3-2. Now, if the cinemotion will do both PS and 3-2 and TV's 3-2 is disabled at 480p, then for those DVD the Cinemotion should be better. On the other hand, if a DVD can do both PS and 3-2, then let it do the job. Now if Sony' TV also do 3-2 in 480p, then it will depend on which can do a better job on PS. What do you think?
Wux:
I think I understand what you are saying, but let me help clarify this for you. Think of the DRC aka 3-2 reverse pull-down as your tv's version of PS. So cinemotion will only kick on if there is no PS source coming to it. I realize what you are saying and yes indeed that would be cool if you could have a PS source and use DRC at the same time, but that's not the case. Hence the reason for my tip. Again let me say this is not always for everyone, but I have found as many others that the DRC does a better job then the PS on my player. Trust me I did not want to beleive this since I went out and bought a new PS player, but I had to test it for myself. I really wanted to think my picture was better with PS on my DVD player, but it wasn't.
I also wanted to mention the way I tested it, first I had the movie on with my player set to PS then I had my wife aka (guinny pig) hit the button on and off while I was watching from the optimal viewing distance. I am one of those people who can see stuff that most can't (I can spot fly shat in pepper!) Then I had my wife who lets be honest (god bless her little heart) has no idea what DRC or PS is and I had her look with both settings. Sure enough we both agreed, and I also asked her before I let her know my opinion to be fair.
I hope this helps..... Test it and let me know what you find.........
Scott5626
02-05-2004, 07:06 PM
Does anyone know if there will ever be HDTV prgramming in a 4:3 aspect ratio? I have a 4:3 HDTV and I wonder if down the road Im going to regret not seeing football or the late show without those wonderful black bars.:rolleyes:
I doubt that will ever happen. I would enjoy all of the programing that you have now. For instance I have HD cable and still watch 90% of programing in 4:3
Scott5626
02-05-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by mech
I doubt that will ever happen. I would enjoy all of the programing that you have now. For instance I have HD cable and still watch 90% of programing in 4:3
So do think its worth signing a 12 month contract for $10 extra, do you get HDTV just to show it off, or are there actually decent programs that are on?:rolleyes:
mech;
I agree that the best way is to try it out. However, without knowing what exactly the DRC is doing in different settings, it will be hard to generalize. It will depend on DVD player, TV, or even the DVD itself. The DRC can be better since it not only doubles scanning line but also doubles the number of pixels per line. However, even my free (=cheap) DVD player's PS seems doing a better job than my ws550's DRC (but I have not done extensive testing yet).
PS and 3-2 are two diferent technologies but I don't know if they in general go together. 57U, Kevinw, and other moderators: Do DVD players do 3-2 reverse pull-down? Is there a way to check it out? When I called Samsung I was told that most PS DVD players today do 3-2 pull-down and that is why one of their top RPHDTV does not even have 3-2 reverse pull-down. Can that be right?
Anyway, I'm trying to understand what DRC is doing in differnt settings but Sony provides no help at all. I will start a new topic in SonySet see if I can get some help here.
Thanks.
Wux:
1.) I did not say that it is better to use DRC in every single case.
2.) I think you are trying to mix apples and oranges with PS and DRC. I think they are two different functions that have some similar qualities.
3.) I will post this link one more time. agoraquest (www.agoraquest.com) I am sure you will get you question answered. The SONY support like I have mentioned before is top- notch on this site.
4.) Have you read your manual on your tv? It clearly explains what each DRC function is best suited for. Progressive = still pictures, Cinemotion = movies or sports, and interlace = I think we all ready know.
Originally posted by Scott5626
So do think its worth signing a 12 month contract for $10 extra, do you get HDTV just to show it off, or are there actually decent programs that are on?:rolleyes:
There is no doubt about it! First off I am getting more and more programing by the month. I love to watch shows like CSI, in HD too. I also would have paid 10 bucks alone to have the SuperBowl in HD. Also just to ease your mind about the black bars it's only the small black bars not the huge ones like you are thinking.
Scott5626
02-06-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by mech
There is no doubt about it! First off I am getting more and more programing by the month. I love to watch shows like CSI, in HD too. I also would have paid 10 bucks alone to have the SuperBowl in HD. Also just to ease your mind about the black bars it's only the small black bars not the huge ones like you are thinking. Thanks for the input. Im exited.:cool:
Scott5626
Enjoy dude! I used to get the old, "oh I doubt there is much difference between HD and digital cable" line and then people come over to the house and shat their pants every time. Guess who hosted the Super Bowl this year? LOL......
