wojo

I have read thru the forums to get the answer on my own concerning monster cables- haven't been
successful so here's the question: I purchased the Sony DVE-NS725P Progressive Scan CD/DVD Player. The store clerk suggested I look into purchasing monster cables for better picture quality than those supplied with the dvd player. Now that I am ready to purchase the monster cables I find there is a huge assortment to choose from. What should I be looking for? Thanks!
Sony KF-50XBR800

57U

There is simply no need to buy the "Monster" brand. Stores tend to push it because it is a very high margin product (like most accessories). Any good set of component cables will do - like Radio Shack Gold Ends, Acoustic Research, etc.

If you haven't done so already, see the post in the FAQ on Cables and Connections. Near the end "cost of cables" is discussed.

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57U - Toronto, Rogers Cable, SA8300HD, 500GB HDD & Hitachi 61UWX10B HDTV, Yamaha RX-V1 A/V Receiver, Martin Logan Speakers. Photos --> 57U's HT

SA8300HD, 250GB HDD & KDL40W3000 (Upstairs)

Please don't PM me with questions that can (and should) be asked in the forum, thanks. Personal Question? Fire away.

DoubleDAZ

Heh-heh. Make a deal with the clerk that you will buy the Monster cables only if he can show you a discernable difference over a less costly brand. If he can't, then he'll sell you the less costly set for half-price. I'll bet lots that he won't go for the deal and that should tell you which set to buy.

To be fair, there probably is a "technical" difference between Monster and other, less costly cables. But, most folks don't have the equipment or setup to even begin to see or hear such a difference. I suspect you'd need several meters to find the differences and even then they'd only be numbers on a readout.

I bought 2 Monster cables before I found this forum and I still feel embarassed about being so uninformed. I rationalize it by telling myself the TV purchase was a spur-of-the-moment thing, which it was, but that only makes me feel a little better, not wiser.

Cheers,

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Cheers, Dave

Hitachi 65TWX20B | Denon 3803 | SA8300HD | Harmony 688 | SARA 1.89.18.1

wojo

Thanks for your replies! I should have been more detailed in my question about dvd cables. Is there a particular "type" of cable I should be looking for? By type I am referring to the tech. specific details that a progressive dvd player should have.

durl

I also own a Sony progressive-scan DVD player and I wanted to check the difference at home between the supplied cable and Monster Component Video cables. Monster was CLEARLY better. Not by a small margin, but CLEARLY better.

I know there are schools of thought out there that cable is cable and brand doesn't have much to do with clarity (and I don't want to get into that debate), but there ARE differences between grades of cable. The cheaper (not less expensive) you go, the worse the picture.

I suggest making friends with some guys at a local high-end A/V store and see what they recommend that's within your budget. My "resource" carries Transparent brand (which can run $250.00 for a 3 ft S-video cable as well as Monster which is much more reasonable.

Ratman

I will agree that cables that are supplied with most products are of poor quality. Upgrading to a "better" cable will always be an improvement. But, it doesn't require over $30 for the cable.

IMO... upgrading from a $30 cable (A/R, R/S) to a $150 (Monster and the rest) does not justify the perceptible difference (if any).

Not a challenge (or insult), but I need to ask. In regard to the "supplied" cable with the Sony DVD player, was it a component (red, green, blue) cable or an A/V cable (red, white, yellow)?

durl

In my case, the supplied cable that I tested was Component. I've also compared supplied s-video to Monster s-video and there was also marked improvement with that cable as well.

As far as good cables that cost less than Monster, I'm not educated enough in that area to make any recommendations.

Ratman

Thanks for the honesty.

The point is...
We try to direct everyone to not get caught up the the marketing hype. For 'most' applications, moderately priced cable are quite adequate.

The 'better/best' cable debate can go on 'ad nauseum'. And that's okay. But, I believe that the intent of most of us is to provide the best cost effective recommendation. Especially to those that are kind of 'new' to the A/V game.

I guess my logic is...

If one is ready to spend $200 for one cable, why not at least try the $30 cable. If you are happy, you have $170 for beer.

Or... buy both, try 'em out and return the other.

Truthfully... I spent $95 for an MIT(?) S-video cable a few years ago. I also bought a Recoton S-Video for comparison ($15?). Even after the 14 day 'break in' period of the MIT cable (recommended by the retailer), there was still no difference between two.

Please don't get offended or think I'm slagging you! Just a discussion... sometimes typed words don't properly translate intent!

Cheers!

mikehbkwm

I totally agree with Ratman on this issue. I myself was caught up in the cable debate a couple years ago between Monster and A/R or RS goldends. I to this day have AR's, Monster, and Radio Shack on my TV. I have seen no difference between the PQ between any of them. I personally will stick with just AR from now on. Im not dogging people who use Monster or say its better but from a price standpoint Id rather use AR or RS goldends and pay less and get the same PQ then pay for Monster and say hey Ive got a very expensive cable here that gives the same PQ..................

__________________
"I'd pay REAL money if he'd shut up"

BadCamper

The moral of this little fable is:

Try both cables (preferrably from a store/retailer that will allow you to get a full refund). If you see a difference between one and another, pick the cable whose image you prefer. Then return the other.

And speaking on behalf of somebody who does purchase Monster Cables...I do not do it as somebody who is seeking some sort of "status." I am a college student...I buy clothes off the clearance racks, only...I eat Ramen noodles. But messing around with my home theatre is a hobby, one that I'm willing to invest money in.

I have heard/seen a difference with the equipment I have as well as other equipment, and therefore choose to make that investment.

FatDog

Monster is decent quality, but dont buy ANY monster cable unless it says "HD Rated".

(That's a bit of a joke. Monster's literature assumes you are too stupid to know the difference so they dont label any of their cables as being compatible with HD signals.)

The best bang-for-the-buck cables are from the custom cable sites. People who are video professionals/engineers/in-the-business do not buy AR/Monster/Radio Shack. They buy or build these types of cables:

www.bettercables.com
www.bluejeancables.com
www.heartlandcables.com
www.wickedcables.com
www.ebay.com (search for "Canare" to find Cable Solutions)

Starting at about $50 these places will build you professional grade cables that will rival the high-end Monster cable costing $200.

These places also offer links/graphs/tables showing frequency-response charts for their coax. You cannot get this information from Monster/AR/Radio Shack (because they dont want you to compare).

An analogy: Cables are like roads. They are all built from nearly the same stuff, but they are designed for different speeds.

Component Video: 4 Mhz max
Progressive Video: 13 Mhz max
1080 Video: 35 Mhz Max ( 9 times component frequency)

Buying ordinary component cables for Progressive/HD is like driving a Indy stock car on residential surface streets. It will work, but it limits the potential of the car.

57U

I hate to lengthen this thread, but.

"HD component cables" is like talking about CD speakers or DVD speakers - pure marketing hype. especially once you beyond the $2 RCA cables.

Take a look at the wires just inside the connection (on the inside of the TV or the component - like a DVD player). These wires are hair thin.

Saying that a good component video cable, not labelled "HD", cannot carry more than 4 MHz is BS, pure & simple.

I have a feeling that any differences that are seen between the various (good) analogue cables are due to how they interact with the various components, much the same way that people have talked about whether Toslink or S/PDIF is better. The cable is not the major difference, it's the component. (athough that example is digital and doesn't translate directly)

The reasons that professional labs and "professionals" use the best:

1. Typically they aren't paying for them.
2. They want to eliminate any posibility of compromizing their results by using "the Best".

If you can afford "The Best", feel free to buy them. I've seen cables for more than $1k, but I doubt many people would feel "comfortable" buying them.

It comes down to a matter of degree. If the rest of your system costs $25k, then go ahead and spend a few hundred extra and get cables that "make you feel good" - no one is stopping you.

If, however, your system costs significantly less, then you'd be much better off putting that extra money into a better DVD player than into the cables to hook it up. I simply cannot imagine spending $100-200 for a DVD player and then spending $100-200 to connect it it to something.

See the FAQ post on Cables & Connections.

__________________
57U - Toronto, Rogers Cable, SA8300HD, 500GB HDD & Hitachi 61UWX10B HDTV, Yamaha RX-V1 A/V Receiver, Martin Logan Speakers. Photos --> 57U's HT

SA8300HD, 250GB HDD & KDL40W3000 (Upstairs)

Please don't PM me with questions that can (and should) be asked in the forum, thanks. Personal Question? Fire away.

Ratman

Well put 57U! I agree 100%.

And... if I may add more marketing hype.

Digital Ready
Digital Quality
HDTV Antenna
HD cable(s)
Over 200 channels of Digital Quality Satellite/Cable
Make your entire house an antenna!
Terk
And before anyone adds a post... I'm sure Bose will come up also!

Sorry... my sarcastic self got loose again!

spaceman_spiff

57, I agree in totality. Elaborating on what 57 said, If you ever have opened the back end guts of your TV or DVD player, you will see that these RCA Component connections transform into thin wires that end on a wafer thin circuit board which has the processors, these processors (ICs) connections are almost as thin if not thinner than your hair. And they do a perfect job of transferring signal or data.

High price of the cable, thickness of the conductor, its purity etc may not neccesarily be applicable to average budget home theater as 57 has said time and time again. Average RS or AR cables should be fine.

FatDog

I'm afraid you have mis-quoted me. (in several ways)

There ARE many cables that use HD compatible coax. But there are many more that were designed for ordinary component signals.

These cables will appear to work for HD. (hence the number of people with the 'any cable will work' opinions)

The problem is, they will roll off the higher frequency signals. This results in a loss of focus/detail on high-contrast colors with HD video.

Right now, the BEST test pattern you can use to see this effect is the fine-focus test pattern on Avia. Even though it's only 480, the effect on a HD display can be seen by the un-trained eye. It will become more visible when the HD version of Avia comes out.

(I'm afraid these are technological facts, not opinions.)



Once again, you did not read my post or check out the links.

These cables I recommend are cheap. Not as cheap as AR brand (which I do recommend for modest systems), but well below the Monster prices.

Have you ever worked in professional production studios? I have. These places DO NOT BUY EXPENSIVE copper. They buy bulk spools of video cables and custom wire all their equipment. The high-end cable sells for $1.50/foot.

The custom-cables with this HD rated coax and connectors start at about $50. Not expensive compared to retail.

Where did I recommend $1K cables? Where did I recommend "The Best"? Where did I bring in the debate over Toslink vs coaxial-digital? My recomendation stayed on-topic and about cables DESIGNED for the frequencies involved in HD video. It was from a engineering perspective (I do have a EE degree) and I tried to keep it about the technology.

Instead of "opinions" based on "I could not notice any difference", I have tried to give facts about the technology. Instead of "opinions", I tried to respond to the original posters request for what cables to buy including links. (How many other responses stayed on-topic or showed respect to the original poster?)

My response is to be accused of "BS". I expected better from a site that has dedicated fourms for ISF calibration and Avia. And from a moderator no less.

57U

FD, my post was intended to be a general comment. It was not intended to "contradict yours" except for the "HD component" part. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

And yes, I did look at your links and thanks for posting them.

I've done the AVIA test pattern and even short $2 RCA cables go "beyond" 500 lines for me, to the limit of the test pattern. Almost any short cable (3-4') will do with static images like this.

I can't recall for sure, but I think even S-video cable went to the limits of the test pattern. Composite Video, of course, tanked at about 400 lines.

The moving test pattern is the one that shows the difference between component and the lesser connections. There you can see the "colourization" effect like you see on a striped shirt (hockey referee).

__________________
57U - Toronto, Rogers Cable, SA8300HD, 500GB HDD & Hitachi 61UWX10B HDTV, Yamaha RX-V1 A/V Receiver, Martin Logan Speakers. Photos --> 57U's HT

SA8300HD, 250GB HDD & KDL40W3000 (Upstairs)

Please don't PM me with questions that can (and should) be asked in the forum, thanks. Personal Question? Fire away.

FatDog

(sorry, cant resist responding to this one)



Very true. The environment inside the box and outside the box are very different from a noise/RFI perspective.

The trick with a coaxial cable (your video cables are all coaxial cables) is that it encases a 18ga center wire in a mesh 'shield'. This is necessary to protect the line-level, un-amplified signals from being swamped by any nearby power wires (AC power, speaker wires).

Once the wire passes into the box, the metal case of the receiver takes the place of the shield so it just needs the center-conductor wire.

Thats why the wires inside are not shielded. But it's usually needed in the mass of wires behind your rack.

57U

This "inductance" and shielding issue is again mostly hype. If you open your component, many times you'll find those skinny, unshielded cables, not that far from the AC wires and all sorts of other "interference", inside the component. (yes I know about the inverse square rule of distance vs signal)

Yes, it's a good idea to have shielding, yes, it's a good idea to have good cables, but it's simply not necessary to have an extremely expensive cable, except for your ego.

__________________
57U - Toronto, Rogers Cable, SA8300HD, 500GB HDD & Hitachi 61UWX10B HDTV, Yamaha RX-V1 A/V Receiver, Martin Logan Speakers. Photos --> 57U's HT

SA8300HD, 250GB HDD & KDL40W3000 (Upstairs)

Please don't PM me with questions that can (and should) be asked in the forum, thanks. Personal Question? Fire away.

spaceman_spiff

Even a cheapest RG6 cable from home depot does the job in most of our houses, transmitting multiple HD channels.
I am an engineer, I use AR cables. I use it for my home theater, not for Lucasfilm Labs.
Dont want to be impolite, but couldn't resist to post this.
Cheers