AtHomeBoy_2000

I dont know a lot about Tivo, so I need some help with something. I am interested in getting a used Tivo off Ebay, but i am not sure if I have to subscribe to Tivo's service once I get one. Basically, I want to get a DVR as a replacement for my VCR in my room. But, i dont want to pay the $10+ a month for their service. I just want to be able to program it like you would a VCR and let it record. Is that possible?

summerfun

I don't know if it works without the service or not, but you will find that the service that they provide is well worth the money. Just using a TIVO as a replacement VCR is missing out on most of the benefits. Their service provides all the menus and programming abilities.

You shift from just programming a certain channel and a certain time and start programming to record certain shows, no matter when they are on. Once you try it, you won’t want to go without.

__________________
SET 1 (HD) Sony 60" LCD HD KF-60WE610 / SA 8300HD DVR TWC / RCA Progressive Scan DVD / Onkyo TX-SR501E Receiver / X-Box HD - Main Room
SET 2 (HD) Sony 30" CRT HD KV-30HS420 - Master Bedroom
SET 3 (SD) Hitachi 48" Ultravision Rear Pojection CRT - Game Room
SET 4 (SD) RCA 24" CRT - Kids room
SET 5 (SD) Sony 19" CRT - Kids room

AtHomeBoy_2000

oh believe me, I know. But I just dont have the money to pay $13+ a month. I need to save up for a a new car and a wedding

DoubleDAZ

Summerfun,

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that not everyone thinks TiVo service is worth the kind of money they demand (high cost of box and then monthly service fee plus more costs to expand the recording capacity). Not everyone needs or wants to pay for the kind of capabilty they offer. Not everyone needs or wants anything more than a HDD-based VCR, regardless of how easy and capable TiVo is. Many still watch live TV and only record when necessary even though TiVo allows one to record based upon a whole variety of paramaters.

I'm quite confident TiVo is everything it's said to be, but that does not make it a panacea for everyone's recording needs. Approximately 1M of the 12M DirecTV subs have TiVo, how many will opt for the more expensive TiVO-HD is anyone's guess. But, I suspect that number would be considerably higher if TiVo were nothing more than a HDD-based VCR that could be controlled by something no more intelligent than S-A's VCR Commander. It should not cost $650-$900 for a box and then another $12.95/mo to simply control a DVR.

Unfortunately, TiVo's success has prompted others to enter the pay-for-recording market. Now, instead of a free VCR Commander to essentially control a digital VCR, you get the joy of paying for a service that should be much closer to free (the SA8000HD service will cost ~ $10/mo, depending on cableco, and that is also ridiculously high). If you do the math ($12.95 X 1M), do you actually think everyone is getting their money's worth? The problem is that it's not that expensive for each individual, but collectively TiVo is making a killing and no one seems to care. I realize not everyone pays $12.95, but even if it were $5/mo, that's $60M/year, isn't it? And that doesn't even count to profit onthe box. Does it cost anywhere near that to develop and maintain their database and software or have been lulled into thinking we are getting a deal because it's only $10/mo? IMHO, things like XM radio, On-Star, photo cell phones, etc., fall into the same category. We are a society willing to pay for convenience no matter how out of whack the price really is, capitalism at it's finest I guess. I wonder why no one makes an inexpensive HDD-based DVR that could be controlled just like today's VCR, with a VCR Commander? I just want to get rid of my VCR.

Geez, I can't believe I just wrote all this.

__________________
Cheers, Dave

Hitachi 65TWX20B | Denon 3803 | SA8300HD | Harmony 688 | SARA 1.89.18.1

57U

Rogers charges C$2/mo for the DVR service. The STB rental is C$20 for the SA8000 (non HD). Rumours have the SA8000HD at C$25/mo - it should be available in June.

I believe there are websites that you can connect to, that will act as IPG for TiVo and I don't think you need to pay... Since TiVo service is not available in Canada, that's what a lot of Canadians do, but it requires a fair bit of computer knowledge I would suppose....

__________________
57U - Toronto, Rogers Cable, SA8300HD, 500GB HDD & Hitachi 61UWX10B HDTV, Yamaha RX-V1 A/V Receiver, Martin Logan Speakers. Photos --> 57U's HT

SA8300HD, 250GB HDD & KDL40W3000 (Upstairs)

Please don't PM me with questions that can (and should) be asked in the forum, thanks. Personal Question? Fire away.

mjtate

You can use TIVO without the service. You would lose the TIVO channel guide, season pass, search, and wish list features, but it still would be a pretty kick ass digital recorder with pause ability.

I love my TIVO, and am very sad that I will have to use the SA8000 DVR when it come out because of it's HD recording capability. I wish TIVO had a box to do that (I'm not ready to spend $1,000 on the DTV one yet)

DoubleDAZ

They do (as you noted) and that's what it will cost you to get one. Actually, I've seen folks that were able to get the TiVo-HD for $650 after Ultimate Electronics and DirecTV discounts/incentives. That's still a lot to pay though and I'm sure you have to use the service to get some/all of those discounts. But, why can't you keep your TiVo as you have it now and use it for SD recording while you use the 8000HD for HD recording?

__________________
Cheers, Dave

Hitachi 65TWX20B | Denon 3803 | SA8300HD | Harmony 688 | SARA 1.89.18.1

summerfun

Unfortunately TIVO has become the common name for DVR. There are actually many DVR (digital video recorders) on the market without paying any monthly fee. They will work just like a VCR, plus they allow live TV "time slip" viewing.

Because "AtHomeBoy_2000" was asking about a real used "TIVO" for sale on eBay, I did not know if he can use real "TIVO" hardware without the monthly fee.

As far as cost, I think TIVO is relatively expensive compared to what I pay for my DVR from my cable company. I have no up front purchase and DVR service only cost me $5 per month. I think TIVO as a company will feel the pain of competition as SAT and cable companies start providing their own DVR products and may lower their price, especially now with a TIVO HD DVR costing $1000 up front. I will have no up front cost for the cable company HD DVR. They will most likely have to partner with the Sat and cable companies to survive. They already have with at least one Sat company.

However, I stand by my comment. Once you have any DVR service, you will never want to go without. It changes the way you watch TV.

__________________
SET 1 (HD) Sony 60" LCD HD KF-60WE610 / SA 8300HD DVR TWC / RCA Progressive Scan DVD / Onkyo TX-SR501E Receiver / X-Box HD - Main Room
SET 2 (HD) Sony 30" CRT HD KV-30HS420 - Master Bedroom
SET 3 (SD) Hitachi 48" Ultravision Rear Pojection CRT - Game Room
SET 4 (SD) RCA 24" CRT - Kids room
SET 5 (SD) Sony 19" CRT - Kids room

DoubleDAZ

I agree with that 100%. I'm just not sold on TiVo, what I consider to be an expensive hardware/service combination, though it certainly works out for a lot of folks. You are also right that TiVo has become a de facto term for DVR and that got me on my soapbox, sorry.

Hopefully, all the DVRs that are coming to market will drive prices for everything down. You are fortunate that you pay only $5/mo for your DVR service, but I assume that is only SD at the moment, correct? If it's HD, then you are even more fortunate. After I start payng $10/mo for the 8000HD service, I might reconsider my stance on TiVo service costs. I know TiVo is a lot more feature-rich at the moment and time will tell how much that will change. The high up-front cost is still a big turn-off though.

__________________
Cheers, Dave

Hitachi 65TWX20B | Denon 3803 | SA8300HD | Harmony 688 | SARA 1.89.18.1

summerfun

You are correct, it is the SD DVR for now, but the HD DVR is coming next month (I hope) and the price has not been announced, but they are "saying" it still will be the same $5. Even if they raise it a couple of bucks, I am ok with that as I still don't have to pay the $1000 like the TIVO customers have to pay. It is also a dual tuner, which I think is a huge advantage over the stand alone single tuner TIVO.

Many people don't understand the benifits of a dual tuner if they never had one. My parents don't have DVR available from their cable company yet so I bought them a TIVO. It is only a single tuner and it drives me crazy when I visit, but they think it is ok becasue they have never had anything else.

__________________
SET 1 (HD) Sony 60" LCD HD KF-60WE610 / SA 8300HD DVR TWC / RCA Progressive Scan DVD / Onkyo TX-SR501E Receiver / X-Box HD - Main Room
SET 2 (HD) Sony 30" CRT HD KV-30HS420 - Master Bedroom
SET 3 (SD) Hitachi 48" Ultravision Rear Pojection CRT - Game Room
SET 4 (SD) RCA 24" CRT - Kids room
SET 5 (SD) Sony 19" CRT - Kids room

DoubleDAZ

I guess for your parents with cable, the TiVo works pretty much the same as a VCR does, you manually program it to record, etc., without the TiVo service (or monthly fee). That sounds like what AtHomeBoy wants to be able to do with one he can get on eBay. I'm sure there will be quite a few SD TiVo's for sale on eBay now that the HD TiVo is available. Sounds like that might actually be a pretty good deal for anyone wanting to replace a VCR with something digital and better quality than tape. I wonder how much they are going for?

__________________
Cheers, Dave

Hitachi 65TWX20B | Denon 3803 | SA8300HD | Harmony 688 | SARA 1.89.18.1

AtHomeBoy_2000

Do you have any other brand suggestions? I am always open to new ideas. I just was looking at a Tivo because it is "the name" everyone talks about. If there is a better or cheaper brand out there. Let me know,

57U

A lot of people use their computers to record TV. Look on this site, AVSForum and the web for HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer).

__________________
57U - Toronto, Rogers Cable, SA8300HD, 500GB HDD & Hitachi 61UWX10B HDTV, Yamaha RX-V1 A/V Receiver, Martin Logan Speakers. Photos --> 57U's HT

SA8300HD, 250GB HDD & KDL40W3000 (Upstairs)

Please don't PM me with questions that can (and should) be asked in the forum, thanks. Personal Question? Fire away.

summerfun

Sorry, didn't mean to give that impression. My parents DO use the TIVO service. I bought them the box and a year’s subscription. They love the service. I think they will switch to their cable company DVR when the year is up however now that the cable company has come out with their own DVR. It will be easier to have one box. It will have two tuners and it will cost less per month. We were using TIVO as a stop gap until their cable company had a DVR option.

My point is that with stand alone TIVO system, you only have one tuner (the cable box). With my cable company DVR, the cable box is the DVR and it has two tuners so I can watch one program and record another at the same time. I can actually be recording two programs and be watching a recorded third program at the same time. It may sound like that would be rare, but you would be surprised.

To the original question of using a TIVO without the service, I don't know if you can or cannot. But Sony, Panny and just about everyone else sells stand alone DVRs that work like VCRs with no service. But, like I said before, without the service, I think you are missing the best part.

__________________
SET 1 (HD) Sony 60" LCD HD KF-60WE610 / SA 8300HD DVR TWC / RCA Progressive Scan DVD / Onkyo TX-SR501E Receiver / X-Box HD - Main Room
SET 2 (HD) Sony 30" CRT HD KV-30HS420 - Master Bedroom
SET 3 (SD) Hitachi 48" Ultravision Rear Pojection CRT - Game Room
SET 4 (SD) RCA 24" CRT - Kids room
SET 5 (SD) Sony 19" CRT - Kids room

DoubleDAZ

I think it's been posted that you can use a TiVo without the service and program it much like a VCR, but I don't know for sure either. I agree that 'a' service is desirable because recording is automatic and interfaces with whatever on-screen guide your cableco uses. I wouldn't get a stand-alone TiVo (DVR) unless it could be controlled by something like S-A's VCR Commander. I believe there are a number of items on the market to automate stuff like this, but by the time you buy all of them, you are probably better off just getting whatever DVR your cableco offers and pay the monthly fee for the service.

AtHomeBoy, as far as options, do a google search on Digital Video Recorders and see where that takes you.

__________________
Cheers, Dave

Hitachi 65TWX20B | Denon 3803 | SA8300HD | Harmony 688 | SARA 1.89.18.1

Blizaine

I have the DVR TW offers (with 2 tuners) and it is WELL worth the $5/month (with no up front costs).

I know it doesn't have all the feature of Tivo but the only thing I do is tell it to record all the episodes of my favorite shows (like survivor and friends at the same time)

It's awesome technology. Can't wait for the SA8000-HD to be available in my area this summer!