steve

Just read this.

HomeTheaterHiFi.com has an excellent article up on current HDTV standards,
formats, and copy protection systems. According to the article, new copy
protection standards will make all HDTV systems currently on the market
(including TV's sold in the last few years) incompatible with future
standards and obsolete. The reason? Copy protection.

Under the current system (DTCP), decoding of the digital signal takes place
via a set-top box. Because of bandwidth limitations, current HDTV's are
limited to a display quality equal to that of a DVD--480p.

Under the new system (HDCP), HDTV will be capable of a much higher display
quality, but there's a catch: The new standard requires that all the signal
decoding be done by the television itself--not by the set-top box. Because
older HDTV's are limited to using a set-top box, by definition, they are
unable to to use the new system or enjoy the higher quality display.

This is ridiculous. For years, HDTV has promised a much, much better visual
experience and early adopters have paid through the nose for the technology.
Now, these same adopters are being utterly screwed. Remember, their TV's
themselves are perfectly capable of the higher resolutions. The problem is,
the bandwidth hasn't been available to carry the higher signal.

Now the MPAA (a major backer of this system) has found a way to deliver
higher bandwidth but, because of copy protection concerns, is unwilling to
allow for set-top box decoding. This means that the brand-new HDTV sitting
in Best Buy or Circuit City today is already obsolete--it won't be able to
display true HDTV standards.

If I owned an HDTV I'd be on the phone with a lawyer already. While its a
fact that being an early adopter carries an innate risk (adopters of
LaserDisc technology paid high premiums for movies for years and suffered
from some title selection without ever seeing the technology take off) the
industry as a whole has been promising HDTV for years, selling the units,
and now visciously welshing on its own promise. Buying into a technology
that doesn't catch on is one thing--but buying into a technology and then
being deliberately left behind because the MPAA is afraid that people might
use the set-top box standard to steal movie content is quite another.

Dan

Steve

I am not familiar with the website that you are refering to but nothing of this seems true. Current HDTVs only show a 480p signal? That is not true - they show up to 1080i - which is what the best HDTV is. Also, bandwidth hasn't been limited - all OTA broadcasters were given a second 6MHz channel to broadcast full HDTV and that is all true HDTV needs.

I wouldn't worrry - I think you have read an article that is way off base. The current HDTV sets will be working fine for the next 15 or 20 years at least.

Dan

Harvey S

I've read the article and it is a good one. The main point concerns the future HDTV signal, not the capabilities of present sets. The MPAA and various other groups, incl;uding SONY are pushing a form of encrypted 1080i signal that provides for copy protection. By forcing deencryption to occur inside the TV (or DVD burner, tape recorder, TIVO, whatever) they can gain control over who can copy what. The plan is that the 1080i signal will only be provided in encrypted form and access to the deencrption engine will be through the DVI connector, only. SONY announced last week that next year's models will all include this connector ands the deencryption engine. Owners of previous models, inclucing the 36XBR450 I bought last week will not be able to display the 1080i signal but will be limited to 480p at best. That is certainly not what I expected when I paid for my XBR450 and I will be furious if this happens to me.

Here is what you can do about this:

send a message similar to the one below to the following, and to any other party you think may have influence over these standards:

Digital Transmission Licensing Administrator (creators of DTCP):
http://www.dtcp.com/
Contact: mailto:info-request@dtcp.com?subject=DTCP and it's
implications to consumers

Digital Content Protection LLC (creators of HDCP):
http://www.digital-cp.com/
Contact: mailto:info@digital-cp.com?subject=HDCP and it's implications to consumers

Motion Pictures Association of America (MPAA): http://www.mpaa.org/
Contact: hotline@mpaa.org

MY message:

I am outraged that DTLA and the MPAA would create a standard that makes my brand new HDTV outdated and incompatible with the highest resolution signal for HDTV. Unless you adopt the solution described below, you should be arrested !

Consumers are not a credible piracy threat yet your efforts to
reduce digital theft will cause consumers undue financial hardship. The MPAA knew full well that they were creating standards that would be incompatible with the current installed base of HDTV, representing millions of consumer dollars, and yet intentionally perpetrated this outrage out of panic and sheer greed.

Solution:

1. The DTCP standard should be modified to allow full HDTV
resolution on analog outputs for 15 years. This will allow the current crop of consumer equipment to be used to end of life with digital compatibility.

2. The HDCP should be amended to allow for equipment to decode from DVI to full resolution HDTV on analog outputs for 15 years.

stovetop

Couldn't this in the very least be considered illegal? I really can't see this coming into the light of day. If people are aware of this, and still selling TV's as HD-READY or HD-CAPABLE, then this is 100% illegal, and there is no way in hell this could go through. If anything will kill HDTV, it'll be this. .. Maybe that's what the Studios are after in the long run anyway...

Harvey S

planned obsolesence isn't illegal but the economic damage they are about to cause to those of us whose equipment will be outdated might be grounds for a class action lawsuit.

Dan

This still makes no sense to me and doesn't sound right. For this to be true the actual signal being broadcast by TV stations would have to be changed. Given that what they are broadcasting are agreed upon standards set by the FCC they can't change them without the FCC setting a new standard. I don't see the FCC doing that. In fact a couple years ago some TV stations in Baltimore wanted the modulation scheme for HDTV to be changed because they said there were reception problems with the current system in urban areas - but the FCC refused.

Maybe this encryption is stuff that applies to recording and playback devices like the next generation HD-DVD. But I still don't see any credible way it is applying to actual transmissions.

Dan

klkyte

If you want company in being outraged about the copy protection DVI Firewire set of issues, try looking at this site:

WWW.avsforum.com

RickNeff

It doesn't affect over the air broadcasts. The DVI issue is for pay-per-view and subscriptions services like HBO HD & Showtime HD. That's why I think the issue is a bit of an overreaction just a bit. For starters, the success of DVI isn't absolute -- Manufacturers aren't stupid however, they have a lot to lose if existing customers were to seriously start bringing complaints, and more importantly, class-action lawsuits. But, at the same time, they are going to want to ensure that new sets can handle any new standards that come down the line.

Personally, if DVI is required for me to get either pay-per-view or HBO/Showtime HD, I simply won't get either. My concern is really with HD DVD when it eventually makes its way out. However, I'm certainly not that bothered by it since my set does a wonderful job with what I have now, both HD broadcasts and DVD. I think those of us who have sets shouldn't spend too much time worrying about this issue since there isn't any certainty as to how the whole DVI thing will even end up (it could end up like DIVX and Betamax for all we know.)

If I were looking at BUYING a new set, then it probably would concern me a bit. I don't know if I'd worry about it enough to keep from buying what I wanted, but if HDTV was the onlything I was really wanting from the set (as opposed to DVD viewing which is my primary concern) then I'd probably wait a bit longer.

__________________
Richard Neff
Proud Toshiba 56x81 owner!

Harvey S

The main issue that has me outraged is not about DVD or OTA HDTV. It is that the set top boxes for cable and satellite will supposedly only provide 1080i to the dvi interface. Yes I will still get the best out of my DVD player, at least until they come out with HDTV DVD players, and yes I will still get over the air HDTV signals from at least a few stations but dammit I bought the set in the belief that it will also work with the HDTV cable STB that Time Warner is testing in Columbus. Right now it would but if the DVI interface becomes the standard I will be SOL unless SONY provides an upgrade path for my XBR450.

RickNeff

I do agree, but only to a point about being outraged about cable/sat. providers moving to DVI. First, what HD channels do either offer now that you can't get OTA? Pay-per-view, HBO/Showtime HD, and "demo" channels (and HDNet for DirectTV.) These are the main broadcasts targeted for DVI copy protection.

Personally, I would find it hard to believe that either sat or cable providers would seriously shoot themselves in the foot over this. HDTV is already suffering from some pretty serious adoption issues without this new wrinkle. However, I certainly have seen both do some rather strange and seemingly stupid things before, so it's not out of the question. But, complaints, cancellations, and certainly a few class-action lawsuits against manufacturers and content providers will no doubt be taken seriously.

The point is that all of this DVI stuff is merely speculation at this stage. It certainly wouldn't keep me from complaining to the appropriate people, but at the same time, I'm not losing sleep worrying about the set I do have. If someone is in the market for buying a set or recently purchased a set, I imagine it would be a concern -- enough to wait (of course, that brings up the question of how long one is willing to wait for it to be "sorted out") or returning the set if possible.

__________________
Richard Neff
Proud Toshiba 56x81 owner!

DLeMore

I just read a letter that says the copy protection that Eisner and others were concerned about has been resolved. They have agreed that copying content is ok for the home but said would like to see something done about copying content to the internet. Sony is the only manufacturer that is starting to put copy protection in to their hdtvs. If I were in the market to buy a hdtv
my advice would be to stay away from New Sony products as I think other hi tech companies will disband the idea of copy protection in tvs, the process will only add to the cost of the tv and I might add the dvi process is something that might not ever be used. Congress would have to approve mandate of such a system and I doubt they would because there are too many people that would be against such a system. Sony has only decided to put this system into their tvs as a precaution and to jumpstart the sale of hdtvs because of all the rumors circulating about copy protection. I further feel that most of what has been said would probably involve future DVD recording devices, that would only apply to the internet and computers that could spread motion picture content.

__________________
DLeMore1@Netscape.net

DLeMore

I can tell you one thing......the HD feed of the Olympics could not have been any better. I can justify that the picture I got was true 1080I. I would take this article of HOME Theatre Hi-fi magazine with a grain of salt. Any future copyprotection will have to be compatible with todays HD tvs and cable systems. The new Hd digital system receivers were mandated to be compatible with yesterdays tv and so will tomorrows copy protection systems. The writers of HOMETheatre magazine are writing articles based on PURE SPECULATION to help sell a dying magazine. Over two million HD tvs have already been sold and I can not imagine how many were cut-****** lawyers who are just waiting for an excuse to sue somebody, maybe even the MPAA.

__________________
DLeMore1@Netscape.net

hjriver

That's the way I watched the olympics, true HD 1081I OTA from my local NBC station. Picture was actually better than HDNET on Directv. Don't know the reason for that. We are watch OTA more now than Directv.

I wondered why RCA decoding is all internal with no output jacks. You can't use a vcr or tivo with it but they do have the ability to upgrade the software which they have done once since I got it in December.

surroundidea

If you absolutely need a TV now to replace a broken TV, buying an inexpensive digital TV set may be a viable option. For most people who just want to upgrade their current systems, I strongly suggest you wait before you buy.

When DirecTV/DishNet/Cable/Movie Studios endorsed the DVI/HDCP scheme in July last year, I have been telling people to wait unless he/she has to buy a TV immediately. What is more interesting is that part of my business is to sell TV. I am a home theater consultant/installer in Southern California, and I have been discouraging my customers to buy a new HDTV. I sure don't mind the income but I don't want some angry customers came to me 6 months down the road for what Hollywood has done to mess up the consumer electronics business.

DVI/HDCP will prevail regardless it is good for the consumers. The Hollywood excuse for not enough HD programs is a lack of copy protection schemes. They are content providers and would care less whether you have to upgrade your TV every 9 months.

Technically, the addition of DVI input to a display device is relatively inexpensive, because it is an uncompressed signal from the STB to the TV. No decompression is needed at the TV DVI input, so most manufacturers don't mind adding such an input. For most TV manufacturers, the plan was to delay the support of DVI until after the great Christmas shopping season last year. It was important to move inventory last Christmas, especially with a weak economy.

From what I gathered in CES this year, you will see many TV's with DVI input by this summer/fall with no price increase. The current non-DVI HDTV will go on sale and there will always be people who just want a bargain. As far as current HDTV owners go, be preapre to answer this question:

Will 480P be acceptable to you for some HD programs?

The DVI issue will not be settled soon, since it requires the content provider, the STB manufacturer and the TV manufacturer to work together with no mistakes. (yes, really!) Adding DVI input to a HDTV is the easiest part of the equation.

Thanks to the efforts of Hollywood studios, the cable industry and the satellite industry, we are again behind schedule on HDTV development.

__________________
Howard Lum
Home Theater Designer and Installer
Southern California, U.S.A.

www.surroundidea.com

petarjure

I have already made up my mind about what I'm going to do if the industry makes my set obsolete. Nothing. I won't write. I won't complain and I won't sue. What I will do is cancel my DishNetwork subscription. Add an antenna to my home and watch free television for the rest of my life. When my hdtv?? breaks down I will buy the cheapest set available. If this industry becomes that crooked then I will never give them another opportunity to steal from me.

For those people who make light of the situation and say that that's just the way technology is. That obsolesence is the risk you take. I just want them to think of it another way. A good refrigerator will set you back maybe a little over $1000. Now if somebody came along a year later and told you that your refrigerator was obsolete you would probably call every consumer protection organization you can think of. Then why would you just accept the stituation here just because the manufacturer said "oh well" when the item cost you 3 or 4 times more. We are not talking about a small entertainment device which you can replace for very little money.

telsmith

In this USA Today article what does this mean in the 3rd paragraph?
I might just be reading into nothing or I dont know what I'm talking about, right. Please set me on the right path on this topic.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...satoday/4077770