OTA digital channels - frequency assignments?

[jco]

Anybody know where I can find a list that shows the frequency assignments of the OTA Digital TV channels?

For example, my TV states that OTA channel 4.1 is 521 MHZ which is
UHF right? I would have thought it was in VHF band like ANALOG channel
4, but apparently not.

Anyway, in order to get the right type of antenna and antenna setup I would
think the frequencies matter and I need to know what they are so any help
on this would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
JCO

[fredinva]

Most, but not all digital/HD is on UHF.

go to antennaweb.org for your location and assignments

fred

[Ratman]

Check www.antennaweb.org

That will provide you with the actual channel and the PSIP channel.

Channels 2-13 are VHF, 14-69 are UHF.

[jco]

Originally Posted by Ratman

Channels 2-13 are VHF, 14-69 are UHF.

this is correct for the analog channels but the digital
channels are all different. Digital channel 4.1 for example
is UHF while analog channel 4 is VHF.

FWIW, I went to the antennaweb site which is useful, thanks, but there
frequency data is not clear, they dont list the actual channel frequencies
there but they do list whether a UHF or VHF antenna is needed. They do
have some frequency information there but it makes no sense and it isnt
explained. the frequencies listed are not correct if they are Mhz so there must
be some conversion table I cant find...
jco

[Ratman]

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/catv-ch.html
http://www.qsl.net/atn/library/Broadcast_freqs.htm
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cable-tv2.htm
http://www.panix.com/~clay/scanning/...o/tvchfreq.txt
http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html

As for UHF digital channels showing up as "4.1" that's a 'virtual channel' or re-mapped channel, which is a one of the functions of "PSIP".
http://www.sarnoff.com/products_serv...rial/index.asp

[jco]

Thanks for the lists but these have nothing on the frequency assignments of the digital ATSC channels. these are all the old analog channels, both OTA and cable. I did a google but still havent found anything yet.....all I know so far is that ATSC 4.1 is 521 Mhz which is in the UHF band....

[fredinva]

Geeeez, just plop your zip code in antennaweb.org

[Ratman]

Originally Posted by jco

Thanks for the lists but these have nothing on the frequency assignments of the digital ATSC channels. these are all the old analog channels, both OTA and cable. I did a google but still havent found anything yet.....all I know so far is that ATSC 4.1 is 521 Mhz which is in the UHF band....

Is the toast burning?

All digital and analog channels use the frequency allocations permitted by the FCC (for OTA)! Doesn't matter if it's NTSC or ATSC.

For example:

Station WPVI (ABC) in Philadelphia
Analog channel 6 (VHF)
Digital channel. 64 (UHF)
PSIP remaps to 6.1

As usual... you are making something quite simple into a technical mountain unecessarily.

BTW... I didn't see any 521MHz allocations in any of the tables, but the closest is UHF channel 22.

Antennaweb.org gives you all the info you need.

[kevinw]

Originally Posted by jco

Thanks for the lists but these have nothing on the frequency assignments of the digital ATSC channels. these are all the old analog channels, both OTA and cable. I did a google but still havent found anything yet.....all I know so far is that ATSC 4.1 is 521 Mhz which is in the UHF band....

Yes this does
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/catv-ch.html
BUT it just doesnt say DIGITAL.. because it doesnt matter . A channel frequency is the same wether broadcasted digitaly or analog.

[jco]

Originally Posted by kevinw

Yes this does
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/catv-ch.html
BUT it just doesnt say DIGITAL.. because it doesnt matter . A channel frequency is the same wether broadcasted digitaly or analog.

you dont understand the question. When they list channel 4 frequency for example they are listing the ANALOG channel four frequency. DIGITAL CHANNEL 4.1, 4.2 etc, are not even close to the ANALOG channel 4 frequency. So when I said all these pages dont list the frequency assignments of the DIGITAL CHANNELS I meant it and it means something.
DIGTAL CHANNEL assignments are not the same as the old analog ones.
Yes, whether a channel is analog or digital doesnt matter if its assigned a frequency but the new digital (ATSC) channel freq. assignments are what I am looking for, not these old ANALOG channel assignments...

When I say channel frequency assignments I have to ask or find out because
its not like FM radio where 101.5 is the frequency assignment and there arent any "channel numbers". with digital TV there are channel numbers, just like the old analog TV scheme but I cant seem to find out what the actual frequencies are for the new digital channel numbers....

[mjones73]

Originally Posted by jco

you dont understand the question. When they list channel 4 frequency for example they are listing the ANALOG channel four frequency. DIGITAL CHANNEL 4.1, 4.2 etc, are not even close to the ANALOG channel 4 frequency. So when I said all these pages dont list the frequency assignments of the DIGITAL CHANNELS I meant it and it means something.
DIGTAL CHANNEL assignments are not the same as the old analog ones.
Yes, whether a channel is analog or digital doesnt matter if its assigned a frequency but the new digital (ATSC) channel freq. assignments are what I am looking for, not these old ANALOG channel assignments...

When I say channel frequency assignments I have to ask or find out because
its not like FM radio where 101.5 is the frequency assignment and there arent any "channel numbers". with digital TV there are channel numbers, just like the old analog TV scheme but I cant seem to find out what the actual frequencies are for the new digital channel numbers....

You don't understand that the digital channels are just broadcast on the same frequencies as regular VHF and UHF channels apparently, if your 4.1 for example is actually UHF channel 39, look up the frequency for channel 39 and you'll have your answer....

[kevinw]

Originally Posted by jco

you dont understand the question. When they list channel 4 frequency for example they are listing the ANALOG channel four frequency. DIGITAL CHANNEL 4.1, 4.2 etc, are not even close to the ANALOG channel 4 frequency. So when I said all these pages dont list the frequency assignments of the DIGITAL CHANNELS I meant it and it means something.
DIGTAL CHANNEL assignments are not the same as the old analog ones.
Yes, whether a channel is analog or digital doesnt matter if its assigned a frequency but the new digital (ATSC) channel freq. assignments are what I am looking for, not these old ANALOG channel assignments...

When I say channel frequency assignments I have to ask or find out because
its not like FM radio where 101.5 is the frequency assignment and there arent any "channel numbers". with digital TV there are channel numbers, just like the old analog TV scheme but I cant seem to find out what the actual frequencies are for the new digital channel numbers....

No kidding it is not the same as FM.. BUT you don't understand. Digital can broadcast multpile channels on the same frequency. We understand what you want, you just don't know what your are asking for.

IT DOESN"T MATTER if it is ANALOG or DIGITAL the frequencies remain the same. They did not invent new ones. Wheter brodcast digitally or analog the the frequency is the same . Ch 62 is always the same frequency regardless of how broadcast...

[Ratman]

Originally Posted by jco

you dont understand the question. ....

The question is understood... you don't understand the answers.

Did you read the link in regard to PSIP... how it re-maps to a "virtual channel"?

Channel 62 analog or channel 62 digital... it uses the same broadcast frequency. It just uses a different 'modulation'.

[fredinva]

JCO,

Since it appears all your DT stations are UHF, simply get a CM 4228 preferrably with pre-amp. And you have different azimuths so get a rotor as well.

fred

[mjones73]

To add to this, each digital channel has 19.2 MBs per second of bandwidth at their given frequency, when you have a channel broadcasting multiple subchannels such as the 4.1 and 4.2 example given, the station is slicing up that 19.2 MBs and allocating a percentage of the bandwidth to each of those subchannels. Each digital channel can be split up to 6 seperate channels. The PSIP infomation added to the data stream informs the ATSC tuner of how the channels are configured so it know how many sub channels there are on a given frequency. There isn't a seperate frequency range for each sub channel. The flaw in all this is when a station adds addtional sub channels, they are robbing bandwidth from the HD channel.

[Ratman]

Originally Posted by mjones73

The flaw in all this is when a station adds addtional sub channels, they are robbing bandwidth from the HD channel.

Nice...

Now you've given him fodder for yet another crusade.

[jco]

Originally Posted by mjones73

You don't understand that the digital channels are just broadcast on the same frequencies as regular VHF and UHF channels apparently, if your 4.1 for example is actually UHF channel 39, look up the frequency for channel 39 and you'll have your answer....

none of these web pages give any cross reference of "OLD" UHF channel numbers being used for the new digital channels. Thats the point, I have no information what the actual frequencies are used ( or even the OLD UHF channel numbers) for the new ATSC digital channel NUMBERS.

[jco]

Originally Posted by kevinw

No kidding it is not the same as FM.. BUT you don't understand. Digital can broadcast multpile channels on the same frequency. We understand what you want, you just don't know what your are asking for.

IT DOESN"T MATTER if it is ANALOG or DIGITAL the frequencies remain the same. They did not invent new ones. Wheter brodcast digitally or analog the the frequency is the same . Ch 62 is always the same frequency regardless of how broadcast...

What? , we are going in circles here thats not true - channel 62 on the old scheme was an analog channel at XYZ Megahertz. The new ATSC digital channel 62.1 ( or 62.2 etc) carrier frequency has nothing to do with the old XYZ frequency used for analog broadcasts. I explained that in the first post, analog channel 4 is in a totally different frequency band than the new digital channel 4.1. So you dont make any sense when you say the analog and digital channels numbering schemes are using the same frequencies, ( that's what I thought at first myself too ) because they arent even close. i.e. the new ATSC DISGITAL CHANNEL NUMBERS have a completely different frequency allocation than the old analog channel numbers did. And the web pages linked are only showing the old analog channel number- frequency allocations...

[kevinw]

You will argue about anything,,
First we explained the oddity of a UHF channel lisitng itself on the tuner as a VHF because of something called PSIP. It may say Ch4 but it is still broadcasting at 48


-

DT 14.1 TFA ARLINGTON VA 331° 3.7 15
* red - uhf WTTG-DT 5.1 FOX WASHINGTON DC 339° 4.7 36
* red - uhf WRC-DT 4.1 NBC WASHINGTON DC 331° 3.7 48
* red - uhf WUSA-DT 9.1 CBS WASHINGTON DC 338° 4.2 34
* red - uhf WHUT-DT 33 PBS WASHINGTON DC TBD 337° 4.3 33
* red - uhf WETA-DT 26.1 PBS WASHINGTON DC 275° 5.1 27
* red - uhf WJLA-DT 7.1 ABC WASHINGTON DC 338° 4.2 39
* red - uhf WDCA-DT 20.1 UPN WASHINGTON DC 338° 4.2 35
* red - uhf WMPT-DT 22.6 PBS ANNAPOLIS MD 82° 24.2 42
* red - uhf WBDC-DT 50.1 WB WASHINGTON DC 18° 4.4 51
* blue - uhf WPXW-DT 66.1 PAX MANASSAS VA 255° 17.5 43
* violet - uhf WNUV-DT 54.1 WB BALTIMORE MD 45° 36.7 40
* violet - uhf WJZ-DT 13.1 CBS BALTIMORE MD 45° 36.5 38

Is this part clear now?
Now looking at the list below you can see ch 48 broadcasts at a frequency of
AIR 48 675.25 UHF
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/catv-ch.html

Since no city has the channel broadcasting on the same frequency- (I am sure you knew this part) we do not have to worry about the signal geting confused by a tuner tha accepts both NTSC and ATSC standards.

Lastly ATSC and NTSC are broadcast on the same frequencies- Well actually the only frequencies allowed for OTA -see the above link again. They just use different broadcast methods on the same allocated frequencies.

Do you understand now? I am sorry there is not a handy dandy list pre made for you. Fortunately there are only 7 ATSC channels broacasting in the DC area and I have charted 1 for you.

If an antenna choice is next, please post YOUR antennaweb results for more help in choosing one.

[jco]

based on your own posted data above, channel 4 is NOT broadcasting their analog signal and digital signals on the same frequencies. channel 4 analog signal is around 63MHZ in VHF band and their digital signal (4.1) is old analog channel 48 freq. in the UHF band. WHY WHY WHY do you keep saying that these ANALOG and DIGITAL signals are both being broadcast on the same frequency when they ARE NOT????